Any ETA on Shared Stash + Nopickup?

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TheError
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Completely agreed Trollkin. Stashing things for possible later use or just the collecting is both fun and makes it much more likely for me to start new chars. Aside from the much worse leveling (progress?) curve which prevents you from doing things like Fauzt for a long while, this is definitely the worst thing of Sigma for me. Also made me try playing online (for pure online players things is better stash wise, I know) which was not necessarily the best idea considering european servers tend to be bad. Still enjoying Sigma though.
Edited by TheError 5 years.
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Wotan
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Nopickup works as intended. If you dont wanna pick up/see shit on the ground- set up your filters into d2stats.
I must say that mulling has always been the most annoying thing to do in Diablo. So if its a possibility to implement shared stash into Multiplayer without breaking the integrity of the game (enabling bugs/hacks into the realm)- that would be the best feature Sigma has.
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whist
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trollkin wrote:I'm sorry, but your argument does not make much sense. There already IS a way in which people can save pratically unlimited amounts of items - character muling. That means this campaign against players "hoarding" items, which is by the way, both a very unfair assumption and a very authoritarian approach to the way in which players may want to play and have fun with the game, is useless.

And have you thought about the way, we intend the player to play, the game experience we aim to achieve? Having infinite storage simply turns the game into a mindless "pick everything that drops and stash it" game. On the other hand, having limited storage forces the player to think, and make choices. You will come across similar choices in different aspects of the game, i.e. you just rolled a decent craft, but you know it's not optimal yet, are you gonna press the transmute button again and take the chance to roll a better craft? It's those choices that separate this game from a mindless cookie clicker game.

Yes you can, in theory still hoard an infinite amount of items with mules as a workaround, but considering it takes more time and that it's more annoying, you're probably gonna reconsider it on quite a few items that you probably just would have stashed away given that yous still had infinite storage.

I also probably don't need to mention that infinite storage heavily encourages twinking, which is not necessarily a part of the game we wish to enhance and enable further.

trollkin wrote:How do you know they have all been fine? Just because every third post on the forum isn't related to the limited storage situation? Maybe it has to do with players just being aware of the developers' attitude towards increased storage you just described?

I know from various feedback from the players. Of course some aren't fine with it, but most players on the realm have just learned to make the choices I was describing earlier and are now perfectly fine with it. I myself come from SP and massive hoarding fetish, and I just learned to play otherwise, and to be honest it just made things more interesting to me, as it did for a lot of other players like me.

Now you're describing us as assholes that don't like hoarders and want to shut them down, but the truth is we've implemented storage items like vessels and clusters to save a lot of storage space, heavily extended the native storage space, and even plan on extending it further with a set of additional stash pages. Also worth mentioning that this is gonna be available on both multi player and single player.

But, as mentioned, it will not be infinite storage space as it was in the past, for many reasons. One of these reasons (among others, keep in mind) is to be fair for both multi player and single player. In multi player infinite storage could eventually overflow our servers in filesize, so that's not gonna happen, and single player is gonna have the same storage space as multi player.

trollkin wrote:There are still countries in the world in which slavery is legal and in which a woman can be stoned to death because of infidelity. One could say that people have been fine with that in these countries for years as well - but that does not make it right.

There's no need to rely on sophisms to make a point.
Dandy
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whist wrote:People on multiplayer have been playing without an extended stash for years and they were fine, and that was before the character's inventory, cube and stash got heavily expanded in size. The plain truth is, you don't need to hoard every items. If all this space is not plenty for you, it much likely means you're hoarding, and for what really? The sad thing I've observed over the years with people hoarding, often reaching hundreds of PlugY stash pages is, more often than not, they never ever actually use a huge part of these hoarded items.

Make use of storage items like shrine vessels, arcane crystal clusters, etc. Stop keeping items you can always re-find in minutes like runes, and turn the unique items that are of no use for your characters into signets. There is no ETA on extended storage space, and even when it will be there, it will not be unlimited as it was with PlugY.


Look.

Multiplayer is excellent. The entirety of the team made a good job over several years. Economy is fine. Gameplay is fine. Lag is minimal. You have a dedicated core of players. Muling is fine.

But !

Singleplayer is a different beast altogether. It's still in a good spot (at least until lvl ~115 or such), but later it's not.
People who want to play MP and SP don't really do it for the same reasons. In multi, you got a community, you got an economy, you got a meta. In single, you are here for the gameplay alone.

I don't need to remind you that Median started ad a pure SP mod focused on pushing the DII engine AND exploring gameplay element ?
"Hey ! What happens if I give Unholy Armour to Necro ? How will players use it ?"
"Hey ! What happens if I give cdr to Assa ? How will players use it ?"
"Hey ! What happens if this skill is unusable if you have been hit recently ?"
"Hey ! What happens if these mobs are invulnerable, but this one boss isn't ? How will players cope with that ?"
...

Then, the mod evolved to become more legitimate as a game. The broken things were pushed out.

At this point, the mod was ready to go multi. And that's what your team did. And that's both logical and great !
You succeeded too. Your multi is working in every aspect.
The team is focused on multi, which is probably a good decision for the long run.

But if this team has one problem. Just one. It's that the attitude of the vocal community members toward SP since the multi shift has always been dubious. Especially concerning the feedback.

When someone playing multi gives you feedback, he talks about gameplay, economy, community and servers. That's a ***** mess to sort out.
When someone playing singleplayer gives you feedback, he only talks about gameplay. And that's frickin' golden to improve that particular aspect of the game.

Should you catter to singleplayer at the expanse of multi ? NO !
Should you hear the feedback from SP ? Yes. And you should be especially attentive to that concerning gameplay. Because it's the only feedback you will get that's not polluted by a "meta" and players mostly focusing on the best way to farm.
This shit leads to balance being thrown out the windows (barbs, hey ?).


PS: example of a reason to play singleplayer. IMO: melee assassins, unholy melee pal and holy caster pal are the classes with the most interesting and compelling gameplay of them all. They keep you on the edge of your seat, asking precision and timing of the player.
Yet they are seldom played on servers, because the tiny lag is enough to severly devalue Blink and Divine Apparition, and they ask for a gamepaly too active to farm for extended periods of time.
I can play on server. I never do because each time I try, I am reminded of how I can't play the way I love best. It's not the servers fault. The fault entirely lies on the fact that Median WAS a SP game that went multi. And that there are tons of remnants of SP focused gameplay elements.

PPS: Hope I don't come out too harsh.
Team has done an excellent job. But some design decisions are objectively eyebrow rising. And I don't use the word objectively lightly here.
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trollkin
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First of all, thank you for the quick and elaborate response. Now, to business:



whist wrote:And have you thought about the way, we intend the player to play, the game experience we aim to achieve? Having infinite storage simply turns the game into a mindless "pick everything that drops and stash it" game. On the other hand, having limited storage forces the player to think, and make choices.



Diablo has been a pick and drop franchise since 2000. I removed the "everything" from your quote, because that's a very imprecise and exaggerated generalisation. You may call it mindless, I see it as enterntaining and a core feature of a good aRPG, in which character progression is pimped almost to perfection and basically never ends because of that search for "the even better item". Like it or not, the fact still stands: most Diablo-esque action RPGs are like that; it's part of what people love about them. It boggles my mind why now, almost 20 years later, people are trying to fight or change that.



whist wrote:Yes you can, in theory still hoard an infinite amount of items with mules as a workaround, but considering it takes more time and that it's more annoying, you're probably gonna reconsider it on quite a few items that you probably just would have stashed away given that yous still had infinite storage.


No, I'm not going to reconsider; as a matter of fact, regardless of not being able to store things in a reasonable way, I'm going to stash whatever items I find interesting, carry them over to mules and occassionally come back to the forums to remind the developers that having little storage space and no shared stash simply doesn't make sense in a game like this one.

With that said, I respect your right to make the game as you see fit - just as I expect others to respect (and not just) my criticism of certain aspects of it. I don't undesrtand your attitude or your explanation - but no matter - no hard feelings.


whist wrote:I also probably don't need to mention that infinite storage heavily encourages twinking, which is not necessarily a part of the game we wish to enhance and enable further.


Did you know that one of the most entertaining aspects of singleplayer Gta III/Vice City/San Andreas was playing using cheats? Someone might say that it wasn't the way the game was supposed to play, but in the end, I don't think players should be told how to enjoy a game in singleplayer/non-competitive modes.


whist wrote:I know from various feedback from the players. Of course some aren't fine with it, but most players on the realm have just learned to make the choices I was describing earlier and are now perfectly fine with it. I myself come from SP and massive hoarding fetish, and I just learned to play otherwise, and to be honest it just made things more interesting to me, as it did for a lot of other players like me.


Good for you, however, you can play that way even if there are like 10 pages of stash storage - we, who like to collect more, can't - not with the way things are right now.

whist wrote:Now you're describing us as assholes that don't like hoarders and want to shut them down, but the truth is we've implemented storage items like vessels and clusters to save a lot of storage space, heavily extended the native storage space, and even plan on extending it further with a set of additional stash pages. Also worth mentioning that this is gonna be available on both multi player and single player.


I didn't describe anyone as an asshole, I just expressed my confusion as to why the storage is so limited and no shared stash is present. Glad to hear about the additional stash pages being in the pipeline.

whist wrote:But, as mentioned, it will not be infinite storage space as it was in the past, for many reasons. One of these reasons (among others, keep in mind) is to be fair for both multi player and single player. In multi player infinite storage could eventually overflow our servers in filesize, so that's not gonna happen, and single player is gonna have the same storage space as multi player.


Again, I fail to comprehend why you find it necessary to maintain a balance between SP and MP/competitive online environment characters. I do, however, completely understand that you need or want to limit the available space for each player server-side - you (wtih the help of the players, I gather) pay the bills and server storage isn't magically inflatable.
Edited by trollkin 5 years.
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fixer_m
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whist,
I. Limited stash space forces us to switch from farming to gear management (and back) much more often. And this is bad. Many of us do farm runs (or completing story if not finished) with friends. But after 20 min of farming we are out of free space and have to take a break for gear management. But hey - my friend is online right now and I want to spent this time farming together, we can do gear management alone. (we are playing via TCP/IP)

What we have right now: [Farming] > [Gear management] > [Farming] > [Gear management] > [Farming] > [Gear management]
What we want: 3x [Farming] > 3x [Gear management]

This is no longer possible with limited stash space :(

II. Each major Median release introduces tons of new items and new ways to build your character - and that's great. With big stash we were able to collect a lot of gear and test it in a fight, comparing what gear is better. We loved it. But now this is much harder to do. What's even more confusing - some ubers in Median requires you to change your gear/build to complete. But now this is way too hard with limited stash space :?

III. SP ≠ MP and will never be.
MP have trading - and it helps with gear a lot
SP did have big stash with PlugY - and it was helping with gear a lot

And now SP don't have big stash. This is just unfair to SP players.

P.S. Other than that - Sigma is a amazing job, I really like it
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ChuckNoRis
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someone please refresh my memory , i mean no disrespect nor do i want to start any unnecessary discusions , but since when does the minority dictate ? unless there's a dictature

are there all of sudden more MP players than SP players now that we got Sigma out ? because in all the past patches untill now , the ammount of SP players was a few times larger thant the one in MP .

if that is true , yes , fine , do as the MP players cry for .

on topic , there's no need for plugy . we can do fine without it . if we will have multiple pages of stash in the future , fine , they are welcomed . if not , we still have the mules so who cares .
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Rishab
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They didn't disable plugy, its just not compatible anymore. I hope people know how it works when one software updates and another becomes incompatible due to not being updated for years.
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Muling is nightmare with current laggy and crushing servers. Eu servers must be over loaded heavily. Sometimes game crash 2x in 10 minutes, othertime last one hour. How can anyone mule valuable items in this laggy mess?

Shared stash between characters should have been implemented in Sigma from start. Plugy done that. I don't ask for infinite stash just shared to prevent stupid muling and loosing items due to lag and dc. Muling is annoying anyway.