Median XL 1.2 Announced

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AzureGladiator
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darkstorm wrote:
AzureGladiator wrote:
darkstorm wrote:make brc assassin skill premeditation -_-


Nah... Way of the Raven's the way to go :)


WALL OF TEXT


I actually read your whole post and from what I understand, you want the assassin to be buffed with reworked skills for more strategic "ninja/thief/spy-like" gameplay? ...and you think that Premeditation can help do that?

Well I have been playing mainly assassin for a while now, and I have to say... It's pretty darn balanced at it's current state (one of the most balanced characters in the mod in my opinion). It also does have a lot of assassin-like skill trees (throwing knives, claws, naginata). While I agree that magic may not be very assassin-like, and it is pretty powerful, the mod tries to make it fit with the class by designing them in the form of traps. They are also balanced by only dealing a single element of damage, unlike weapon-based builds.

As for your skill ideas... Many of your ideas already kinda exist. The "Rune" oskills, for example, can be used strategically to damage enemies through luring tactics. The clod skills you mentioned might sound good, but in reality they wouldn't exactly balance well unless they were modified. Besides, the mod should be composed of original content in the first place.

Premeditation wouldn't make the assassin more strategic in any way. It would only make it overpowered. Broadside was nerfed for a reason, and bringing the old spell timer back would not be a good idea (although I think it may have been nerfed a little too hard). Premeditation also wastes a skill slot. It does not add any new spells to the game, and if the mxl team wanted to lower spell timers, they could change that manually.

I just said I liked Way of the Raven cause I miss my old builds with it. Plus it'd allow you to do complete rainbow damage! :D But like Premeditation, it's kinda a wasted skill slot (like most passives), but that's debatable. Maybe in the future if the mxl team wants to add a new sin skill, they can combine Way of the Spider and Way of the Phoenix into one skill that raises both (but to a lesser degree of course) to free up a slot.
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Marco
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darkstorm wrote:nonsense textwall about "ssin" with a lot of blue


couldn't even read past the first 2 paragraphs because of "ssin" but... have you actually played assa before? here are some facts:

1) premeditation has always been a 1 point wonder. which means it mostly gave the same amount of %reduc. which means you can essentially reduce all cooldowns by that same %reduc and gain one free skill spot. it also means assassins will have a much better progression before you get lots of skill points.

2) broadside has no cooldown bro. it indirectly locks itself like fortress by disabling ranged skills. and asking for broadside having a 2s timer is really dumb

3) pretty sure laz (who removed premed) didn't hate assassins. they dominated throughout the entire laz era by far. the story changed after laz left, with multiple classes dominating the meta: assassins, later druids, then sorceress & pal and finally barbs, while amazon / necro have been very powerful all the way.

4) brc is weird. make the skill too good and people will complain they can't beat brc without that skill. make the skill bad and people will complain there's no point in doing it.

5) avoid isn't bugged

6) tiefling was added because fast cast rate is needed for any viable caster build. it only used to be viable because immolation bomb would oneshot heroics, but it sucked at everything else. it wasn't meant to make assassin the best caster in-game, just viable.

7) turns out that if you make a skill hard to use, people will pick a weaker skill that is easier to use. so yeah nobody will play your ninja-melee-caster build.

8) storm crows is intended to be a mid to low AoE skill, mostly for small packs of strong monsters. that's why maelstrom exists. derp

9) great kick ideas, but kick skills are hardcoded so they cannot be used

10) invisibility skill cannot be implemented in the current engine, oh how dumb we are for not implementing it :)

11) because making blink level 24 instead of level 1 would make any difference at all. assassin is beating act 1 hatred too fast, it needs nerf


if you miss assassin so much, go try 1.F9 pouncesin. pounce is such a ninja skill amirite?
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Goodkidscc
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darkstorm wrote:
AzureGladiator wrote:
darkstorm wrote:make brc assassin skill premeditation -_-


Nah... Way of the Raven's the way to go :)


well, it used to be usefull, but i find premeditation farely more usefull - imagine ssin with almost no spelltimer all skill. broadside with 75% cooldown red... like 2 secs. Singularity able to be spammed. Hades gate like way to move (imagine farming uberlelevs with consta spamming that skill).

Try to think about it like a kind of encourage the player to do brc - way of the raven is not so common, for example electrofield ssin can deal without it. Psychicssin got nn in cold dmg. It was the great skill in old median, when assassin got other builds available. now, when there r more ones able, farely better encouragement is back to premeditation - imagine each ssin with each skill cooldown red by percentage (premeditation allowed to play caster ssin with oskills - avananche, shadow avatar, meteor shower, etc. with almost no cooldown).

way of the raven can be other skill, like 18th lvl one, or so. brc skill would be perfectly featured with premeditation. ssin would became the fastest char in game ;)

for me in ssin most shitty thing r those weird teleports. blink is so op, that it should be 24 lvl (10 secs of stun is truly op), whilst hades gate is so unusefull that ... it should be like 1st lvl skill with more spelltimer modifications.

obliteration is weird, i was quite suprised by the fact it became brc skill... so usefull i found not even one ssin using it (good job, mod team!) .

it's not same assassin as old median. those times it was op char. now it is so 'balanced' that it is even hard to play with (avoidance it kinda bugged. when i open old median, having about 56 % perf being works, whilst this times i got 67% and i feel like it's like kindda bug or so...). if none would be done to improve assassins flexibility noone would like to play ssin.

in playing ssin the point was that it was complicated. 1st blink, than hit with shadow refuge, than cast some light trap to stun around, than freeze those one in front of, than cast broadside and just move around, after that cast som wychwinds to lure there enemies, than, in those corridor cast singularity and improve it with doom...

much to be done. and that was the point - it was op char just to survive in fight and deal with all the matters.

than, someone in mod team realise that it should be changed coz that much ppl with be frustrated playing ssin and will choose the caster way to play (just to replace sorceress in that way, which became the best melee in game), that's why tiefling form arrived with op fcr.

after that, someone realise that casterssin was too op (could do most ubers naked just staning in one corner of the map and spamming laser limpet around) and - finaly - fixed it - and now, caster ssin is quite boring and not special.

that's why new median xl patch changed - finaly, after so much versions... - shuriken flurry range! and now casterssin switched into kind on stationary tantrum-way-of-playing or even better - kind of numlockssin (another great job!).

i should suggest the team to make shuriken flury range like old median cascade - so it will be easiest build in median ever - required 1st lvl skill maxed and ssin can naked do all game just standing in the areas entrances...

someone in mod team just hate ssin. dunno, mb there r much gays there... who prefer muscle barbs and treewardens...
i know, ssin isn't pretty, looks ughly, but it's based on ninja. ninja is not the full-amored knight that can deal in crowd of enemies. it's not the ranger who can shot everything standing far away. it's short range char that can have to deal quickly. how can it deal quickly when it's becoming and becoming some sort of sorcerer? it is supposed to move super fast, to acts in one point aim, to deal long period dmg (psn dmg like 1min should be fine - who suggested anyone in mod team making tousands of psn dmg?!?! (in 2 secs >.< and much psn immunes)).

we r talking about traps but there r no strategic traps. why not allow ssin to put somewhere bombs that can stand there 2-3 mins and explode when enemy just step on them? it can be lired into the trap and die. putting trap on can be cooldowned and premeditation as a brc skill would make sense.

it's a spy, chief, close combat character, that should analise each step in advance. how to play like real assassin when most skills r closing it to the kind of funny sorcerer? look on ur decisions - scorpion blade which is usefull only as a high lvl proc when got much psn buffs and use wychwind or other fast attack. why it cannot be one hit throw that can deal psn dmg for 1 min? it would be better than just putting 'additional knives on mpf lvl'. noone uses it, it's rediculous >.<.
anosther skill - stormcrows. great idea - let the houndreads of flying knives just slowly follow one aim, missing all enemies in the way to it. why it cannot replace weird shuriken flury? imagine some king of knife throwing strafe (org diablo 2 ama bow skill that shot multiple times) - that would be much better in farming, uber doing, ... everything. the attack is ready, btw, just base on org diablo 2 strafe.
mpf was long range skill, now it's quite short range - but anyway, it works.
breadside is useless now. to low dmg. long spell timer (reduced by premeditation brc skill would work fine, even if quite op). But nah, sorry, my mistake - i forgot it's holydin skill atm, he can spam it with no cooldown, so it should be stationary given to the palladin.

melee skills i don't get. why don't we use kicks? it could be great to preapir special boots 'assassin character only' to kick enemies. it may sounds funny but there is animation ready, it could be quite uniqe.

what is the point with traps - except laser limpet, all r based on diablo 2 lod. nothing new, nothing better. make something that can work periodically and it will be truly trapssin - end even add new items into game, traps that can add some effect to the trap skills. that would be great job, indeed.

and the last case - why there is no ... invisibility skill for a ssin? even in d2lod she used to got a cloak of shadows, that allows her to move undeectable between enemies. in diablo2lod it was quite rediculous comparing to spelltimer but in median - such a skill would be great. it can be area spell, target spell or passive skill - and could truly replace always bugged vampiric icon skill (ofc very usefull and very smart one).... >.<

imagine skill that allows u to become invisible to the moment u attack any enemy. u would put on traps everywhere and than attack one enemy and lure him in ur snare ^^

anyway, im dreaming - most prob next ladder ssin will be 'rebalanced', 'rebugged', and much re, re, with another ammount of funny skills that makes her stay one place and spam some shit around, constantly. and ppl will play it and than realise it's ''squishy coz it cannot survive staning one place like barbarians and palladins". omg, no idea why is that happening, folks - is it possible that avoidance is uncomaparble farely shittier that 5m def, 50% dmg red and 100% dmg absorb within' 100 buffs regenerating whole life in a shorter period than a frapp, unmentioning all the ones that deals the mofos around 1m all type dmg around in 20 screen range, just making coffie and getting bath in the next room while? and is that mean that assassin is simply shitter char than all tanky boring having all pouncessin skills fatasses that arrived in the new, balanced median?

yes it does. better remove that char to spare us ur shame, and our time.

cannot awaitening the forthcoming patch, it's so long! ^^

This post made me sprout a tumor.
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Tkorpi
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Holy text wall of text wall :DD
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darkstorm
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As for your skill ideas... Many of your ideas already kinda exist. The "Rune" oskills, for example, can be used strategically to damage enemies through luring tactics. The clod skills you mentioned might sound good, but in reality they wouldn't exactly balance well unless they were modified. Besides, the mod should be composed of original content in the first place.

And u think the "''Rune" oskills" are not clod?

have you actually played assa before?
No, Marco, i haven't. That's why i wrote those post, ofc.

1) premeditation has always been a 1 point wonder.
It was like 8-11 sp to get 75% cd red. Never applied + ... to all skills bonuses (mb late version got it fixed, but in the very beggining it was like quite dumb skill).
To be honest, i'm so rabid with this skill coz it allowed to enlarge assassin build with additional oskills. Fun was great, character wasn't so boring. And it would be more usefull than Obliteration (which is truly worth brc).

2) broadside has no cooldown bro. it indirectly locks itself like fortress by disabling ranged skills. and asking for broadside having a 2s timer is really dumb
omg, i'm so sorry. It is so obvious that Broadside got no cooldown, it just make all skills got Broadside's cooldown, and it's properly called ''lock effect''. Shame on me.

4) brc is weird. make the skill too good and people will complain they can't beat brc without that skill. make the skill bad and people will complain there's no point in doing it.
So make it good enough and they won't complain.

6) tiefling was added because fast cast rate is needed for any viable caster build. it only used to be viable because immolation bomb would oneshot heroics, but it sucked at everything else. it wasn't meant to make assassin the best caster in-game, just viable.


O.K., but couldn't it be replaced by a bit improved Beacon (overall speed)? Frankly speaking, assassin (i used to called 'ssin just to avoid mistakes the common 'sin' makes, alas ineffectively) is not in so close collaboration with Energy Factor. We already got druid and sorceress, so why do we need another caster (with +1 all skills bonus and some dex bonus - not percentage, pittily)?

7) turns out that if you make a skill hard to use, people will pick a weaker skill that is easier to use. so yeah nobody will play your ninja-melee-caster build.
Hope it's no the only reason why all character are becoming more similar, still. In the very next ladders they will differ only with animations...

9) great kick ideas, but kick skills are hardcoded so they cannot be used
Pity, i dreamed about kick Uldy into his ass.

10) invisibility skill cannot be implemented in the current engine, oh how dumb we are for not implementing it :)
Weird, in fact you made tousands of invisible mobs and cannot make one invisible (even temporarily) character's skill.

It seemed to me that you still don't get my point which is to focus on making assassin more individual. I find each patch is getting all characters closer to each other instead of creating separate play-styles. You argue that ppl will choose ''easier'' way to play. If so - remove uberquest, they seem to be too hard for qorum.

The fact that few people will eat truffles does not mean to lose their harvest. Although, when you prefer peanut butter like milions...
Allow ppl to play with their preferances instead of pondering the easiest way to play. It won't make Median XL most popular game in the world.
If some common folk wonna play something easy than he enters easier game, with no builds, not modifiactions. Diablo is based on them. Take a look at some original D2LoD traps, in assassin skill tree. 6th lvl one could deal dmg for 13 seconds. Is it truly hard to make traps smarter than numlock way to play, those can stationary w8 for the reason to fire/explode/deal with the target for a long time? Even palladin got Slayer that can stand ages in one point but assassin - the trap master in Diablo/Median - doesn't. And instead of modify that weirdness you realeased as enranged shuriken flurry 'ssin with ATMG duration reduced to 3 seconds. That's why i enquird if we shouldn't expect you making cascade shuriken 'ssin.

In order to teleportation skills...
Even Dragon Flight was better way to move fast than Hades Gate. Both deal dmg, but one is great whilst the 2nd is usefull as hell. Is it another skill u cannot balance or exchange with something more usefull (but plz, not with Obliteration >.<).

Diablo game is not so separated from the fantasy world. It got it's own, right, but it's nothing bad to complain when the only thief-like character behaves like bucket of peeling, thrown out of ther characters.

Instead of inviting ppl to the older Median XL versions you'd better repair the one you've commited ;)
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Crash
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darkstorm wrote:
6) tiefling was added because fast cast rate is needed for any viable caster build. it only used to be viable because immolation bomb would oneshot heroics, but it sucked at everything else. it wasn't meant to make assassin the best caster in-game, just viable.


O.K., but couldn't it be replaced by a bit improved Beacon (overall speed)? Frankly speaking, assassin (i used to called 'ssin just to avoid mistakes the common 'sin' makes, alas ineffectively) is not in so close collaboration with Energy Factor. We already got druid and sorceress, so why do we need another caster (with +1 all skills bonus and some dex bonus - not percentage, pittily)?


Overall speed won;t make much a difference as Tiefling would. Tiefling is essentially a morph, allowing assassin to hit faster breakpoints for casting more easily, vs just adding FCR to sin.

If that's confusing, look at paladin and compare FCR breakpoints and frame rates in and out of superbeast. It's basically the same concept.
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darkstorm wrote:Instead of inviting ppl to the older Median XL versions you'd better repair the one you've commited ;)

For one person? :lol:
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I started getting very confused when truffles and peanut butter were mentioned. And hungry. Actually i'll do something about that right now.
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Holy. Moly. And people said my 150k+ characters bibles were big and nonsense.
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Marco wrote:4) brc is weird. make the skill too good and people will complain they can't beat brc without that skill. make the skill bad and people will complain there's no point in doing it.

I think BRC (and Ennead) should always be some sort of utility skill that almost every build of that class can use. That's the best way to make it feel like something you want to aim for.

At the same it should not be one of the "primary" defenses for that build (like def, block, dodge etc), otherwise either actually completing the BRC feels too hard compared to content after it, or the class becomes too strong after doing the BRC. That's always been how I feel about druid and his BRC. I get that having different classes have different progression is a good thing, but (personal opinion) druid takes it too far.

For assassin, here's what I always wanted for her. By which I mean a little robot familiar. It could be untargetable and help you with utility spells like a slowing cryo-beam, a healing beam etc.