Pr1march wrote:TgTalcon wrote:Primarch wrote:It’s a lot more nuanced than “was this a buff patch or a nerf patch?”
The changes should be regarded on a case by case basis.
I received so much hate from the stans on discord for pointing out that the buffs Spearzons received weren't focused on mitigating the most significant drawbacks of the build (survivability and clunky health orb mechanics) but were instead focused on buffing pounce damage (trash mob clear speed) which wasn’t even a major issue. In addition, Great Hunt got nerfed so they are now even less endgame boss viable.
A buff is meaningless if it doesn’t mitigate the build’s core design flaws that make it unplayable.
How hard could it have been to replace 30-40% of the TCD you receive from lioness with a dodge/avoid passive that might help compensate for the small Health pool/lack of block?
S20 stats showed 4% of Amazons played Spearzon. Did you even bother to ask why that might be? Did literally anyone complain about pounce damage being their main issue? The changes made to the tree just seems so out of touch and unnecessary.
4% of people played spearzon because it requires good gear. Ben almost did Sammy on a spearzon with a great hunt build, however MMZon was much stronger so he swapped to that. Also, removing tcd from spearzon for dodge is a very bad change as spear gets insane tcd which you can use Avalor + Paragon for some really solid hp. So the small healthpool is completely incorrect it's quite easy to hit 30k hp on spearzon.
1) I never said remove TCD entirely. I said a portion.
2) So you bring up Arkaine’s valor (damage loss) and going paragon to give Spearzons some semblance of survivability yet fail to comment on the fact that this comes at the cost of curare, which Removes a significant portion of your damage as well. Especially given how many phys/magic immune you find in places like Fauzt. You’re suggesting one should gimp their damage to mediocrity in order to survive basic endgame encounters.
3) This also brings up another point... If Spearzons also require paragon to survive in endgame content, can you name a single zon build that benefits from Curare? If so, why did it get buffed this patch if no one can afford to use it anyways?
4) If a build requires “good gear” to be even halfway viable and still comes out lackluster, wouldn’t that mean it pales in comparison to other builds and needs to be touched up? We aren’t talking about some Niche mana Sweep Sorc that one rapes everything with required SSSU’s here. We’re talking about a cookie-cutter Amazon talent tree build that remains unviable after multiple patches. That alone should warrant a rework.
Nothing I’m saying is radical or edgy. It’s common sense. Honestly, I might not even play this patch at this point. It’s just the principle of having a dead build that no one wants to play for several patches and doing nothing about it that I feel warrants condemnation. The worst part is that there are so many people who havent even played one in recent years that are offering up theoretical notions of viability in an attempt to contradict my direct observations.
If I’m full of shit, why don’t you prove me wrong and play one this season. Tell me how much endgame content you can clear this patch with the new “buff”.
(Also, why was my forum account suspended with a “last warning” for the post I just made? It didn’t violate any of the community standards and I never received any other warnings.)
1. Removing a portion of TCD to apply Dodge/avoid is not a solid way to deal with anything, TCD covers lack of block by reducing chance to be hit to 5%
2. Curare is more geared towards bowzon now with the changes to bowzon, and not so much to spearzon, Spearzon can get loads of physical resist quite easily, and has a lot of easily available procs as well. This can cover a lot of damage, as for "immunities" there are no immune mobs in fauzt, so I'm unsure what you're speaking about. There are Resistant mobs for sure, however they aren't immune. Which means that the change from phys to magic on Pounce + the 33% damage increase should cover this "lack of damage" quite well as enemies typically don't have magic absorb, and even hardliners die quick to something like magic missiles?
3. Practically the same question, answered in 2.
4. It required good gear before, however with changes to sets etc it is quite possible that it'll work on lesser gear now, we don't really know much about how low level the sets will be, nor the set changes yet, but it's quite possible that making cele a 4 piece set will improve it's usefulness for early on with a spearzon.
As for someone who claims I haven't played a spearzon, I have. I tried to make all zons work patch 1 of sigma on budget gear, or on wonky set ups (rip hammer of jholm not working with lioness) and I didn't really have issues with the spearzon at all. I cleared fauzt, and teganze mostly with it, with little to no struggles. Was it amazing OMG Opieop? No, but it was far from useless or weak. The fact that someone could even attempt using it in a Sammy fight is impressive for the build. My neutraldin probably wouldn't do much in sammy, outside of a afk tankfest for an hour due to voj dmg vs bosses being abysmal, however I still cleared everything except laz, sammy, and void ( I dislike void fight and find it 20 minutes of sleep time, but easily tankable did it in previous ladder without any issues) As for Laz, I don't really know the mechanics of the fight so I couldn't say.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, you launching a verbal attack at the devs because they didn't touch that one build you love, so you need to hate on them a whole shit ton seems a bit childish to me. There are changes and buffs to the zon, and there are ways to have survivability without lacking a lot of damage, 33% dmg increase is a pretty good number that's a solid 1/3rd damage. Maybe I'm wrong and it's absolutely trash, who knows. Most Spearzons are farmer specs using pounce, so I think thats fine if they're used for that, like a wolf druid is used for harbinger.
