[2.0] The Runewords Overhaul

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ChuckNoRis
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all i hope for is for the online docs to be updated at the moment of the patch release . or even a few hours faster if possible
SainteCroquette
Dark Huntress
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ChuckNoRis wrote:all i hope for is for the online docs to be updated at the moment of the patch release . or even a few hours faster if possible

Yeah lets hope so ! Or it could be kind of exciting just fiddling around with runes to discover whats new :o
lavasoft
Jungle Hunter
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I have several speculative concerns about this update that I'd like to voice, I'm sorry if these have already been brought up in this thread as I haven't read through the whole thing.

tl;dr:
1. I feel that limiting 1 oil per base and removing grey unsockets will result in additional unsatisfying grinding for base items and perhaps even more time consuming repetitive cube tasks rather than less.
2. I feel that consolidating runes to a centralized line will reduce player agency + goal-setting and result in a less satisfying gameplay experience.

On the first concern, the vast majority of oil rerolls come about simply due to bad socket counts so even if oil of luck rng has now been mitigated, we still have to deal with socket counts between 1 and 5 (for 6 socket items) that make the item bad. With nothing written that addresses this and the limit of 1 oil per item, this now necessitates a huge amount of collecting base items to check for sockets and stats and then discard. For example, i usually have ancient armor (sacred) on my drop notifier and then when I get one, I can remove it because I can craft it into the best runeword base it can be. Now, I will basically never be able to remove it from the notifier and I'll constantly be picking up these base items to see if they rolled well which in my opinion is grindy and unsatisfying compared to crafting the perfect version. The current crafting method is focused and goal-oriented, I have a threshold of stats that I'll be satisfied with then when I get them, I can use the item and not worry about it anymore, but with this change it sounds like I'll be fishing for base sacred armors, crowns, gauntlets, greaves, etc. basically forever always checking to see if there are iterative improvements to my current gear which interrupts normal gameplay much more heavily than the focused crafting that currently exists. I personally see this as a regression to a more base unmodded D2 method of doing things where the loot grind ruled all, I really liked that median added methods to reduce loot rng in the way of crafting (baalspawns, rw-rerolling, oil-rerolling, shrines), but now 3/4 of these rng-mitigating features are gone.
This brings me to my next point about concern #1, that this change may increase repetitive cube tasks instead of decrease it. Now that RWs can no longer be unsocketed, jewels are unreclaimable. So if you have an iterative improvement available for a base item, you now have to remake all included jewels which is a potentially huge repetitive cube grind depending on your personal threshold for an acceptable jewel. This is inherently unsatisfying since you are essentially attempting to re-make jewels that you already made but were obliterated due to this change. Crafting the perfect jewel was quite satisfying, but now that jewels are basically consumable and can be lost, I'll be settling for less and have no particular attachment to any that I make.

On the second concern, I claim that consolidating runes to a single line reduces player agency. In the current version of the game, if you have an elemental runeword that you want to make, you have to make the conscious effort to go run Teganze in order to get it. You set a clear goal, take steps to complete it, and then eventually you complete your goal. I see this goal-setting activity as intrinsically satisfying. In the OP, it is written that we are now *always* grinding for runes, which I read as we are now simply praying to rng-gods that we get good rune drops. No more setting goals, no more focused gameplay, just pray that you get the runes you want. I see this as a downgrade.

To wrap up, I feel these changes are regressive, "returning to monke" so to speak and remove some of the improvements median made over the base game. I hope that these speculations will prove to be incorrect when this update happens. And don't get me wrong, I agree with the intention, it just feels like these changes may not bring about the intended result. I am happy that Torajan great runes are getting removed though, that place sucks.
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suchbalance
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Oil of renewal always outputs an unsocketed item (i.e. you can max socket count via jewel punch recipe).
lavasoft
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That's a relief, thank you
Bljadzon
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Marco wrote:So, enough El (r01) runes can technically make you a Xod (r66) rune, but... please don't try it.

It will take 36 893 488 147 419 103 232 El runes, if anyone was interested.
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godoffails
Bone Archer
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Bljadzon wrote:
Marco wrote:So, enough El (r01) runes can technically make you a Xod (r66) rune, but... please don't try it.

It will take 36 893 488 147 419 103 232 El runes, if anyone was interested.


Looks fair, let's do it !
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godoffails wrote:
Bljadzon wrote:
Marco wrote:So, enough El (r01) runes can technically make you a Xod (r66) rune, but... please don't try it.

It will take 36 893 488 147 419 103 232 El runes, if anyone was interested.


Looks fair, let's do it !


Group project?
Enigma
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Marco wrote:
Taem wrote:Marco never addressed my prior concern, how elemental casters of any class rely on jewels with +spell focus and +2-4% elemental damage as well as hopefully added energy% or FCR. There is zero chance the Caster runewords will address all the stats you will lose from these jewels. As I mentioned to him, removing just one jewel drops my DPS by hundreds of points, so having to remove say 3-or-4 from body armor to create a runeword armor could be devastating, and if you couldn't eject those jewels you spent so long creating?! It really is too soon to judge 2.0, but I am extremely wary of this particular upcoming change (runewords) to caster types. Time will tell.


Why are you so certain there's "zero chance" the stat loss of a couple jewel spaces won't be addressed? Some spell damage / focus is hardly relevant compared to orange stats, pierce, maxres, or simply spell damage/focus (they aren't exclusive to jewels?) and virtually any other stat. This is like saying
Minefield



Minefield
One-Handed Swords
Except Two-Handed Swords, Two-Handed Swords

'IgnTyrRalOhm'
Runeword Level: 100
If you have 90% Fire Resist: +50% Fire Spell Damage
40% Hit Recovery
+(25 to 30)% to Fire Spell Damage
-60% to Enemy Fire Resistance
Fire Resist +30%
Fire Absorb (1 to 2)%
Attacker Takes Fire Damage of (400 to 500)
is a bad runeword because it has no jewel space. Ironically enough, minefield actually requires 2 less runes in 2.0 - inb4 this is considered a nerf


And also I agree, crafting good jewels feels good, and that's why you still can do it. We think rolling bases and rw itself with oils wasn't, and really the only way to stop it from happening was to remove them. If you made a jewel that's too good to throw on some mid-term RW, then just use it on other quality like craft/unique, simple.



From you mentioning jewels in RW's does this mean that a runeword that requires 4 runes (minefield for example in 2.0) could still be put in a 6 socketed base after 2 jewels? or are runewords only fitting in specific socket numbers like in Clod?

Edit* Upon rereading the initial post it seems as though this is the case; I must have just missed it the first time around. Love the rework btw, very keen to see the results of your's+others' hard work :)
blatkill
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Enigma wrote:
Marco wrote:
Taem wrote:Marco never addressed my prior concern, how elemental casters of any class rely on jewels with +spell focus and +2-4% elemental damage as well as hopefully added energy% or FCR. There is zero chance the Caster runewords will address all the stats you will lose from these jewels. As I mentioned to him, removing just one jewel drops my DPS by hundreds of points, so having to remove say 3-or-4 from body armor to create a runeword armor could be devastating, and if you couldn't eject those jewels you spent so long creating?! It really is too soon to judge 2.0, but I am extremely wary of this particular upcoming change (runewords) to caster types. Time will tell.


Why are you so certain there's "zero chance" the stat loss of a couple jewel spaces won't be addressed? Some spell damage / focus is hardly relevant compared to orange stats, pierce, maxres, or simply spell damage/focus (they aren't exclusive to jewels?) and virtually any other stat. This is like saying
Minefield



Minefield
One-Handed Swords
Except Two-Handed Swords, Two-Handed Swords

'IgnTyrRalOhm'
Runeword Level: 100
If you have 90% Fire Resist: +50% Fire Spell Damage
40% Hit Recovery
+(25 to 30)% to Fire Spell Damage
-60% to Enemy Fire Resistance
Fire Resist +30%
Fire Absorb (1 to 2)%
Attacker Takes Fire Damage of (400 to 500)
is a bad runeword because it has no jewel space. Ironically enough, minefield actually requires 2 less runes in 2.0 - inb4 this is considered a nerf


And also I agree, crafting good jewels feels good, and that's why you still can do it. We think rolling bases and rw itself with oils wasn't, and really the only way to stop it from happening was to remove them. If you made a jewel that's too good to throw on some mid-term RW, then just use it on other quality like craft/unique, simple.



From you mentioning jewels in RW's does this mean that a runeword that requires 4 runes (minefield for example in 2.0) could still be put in a 6 socketed base after 2 jewels? or are runewords only fitting in specific socket numbers like in Clod?

Edit* Upon rereading the initial post it seems as though this is the case; I must have just missed it the first time around. Love the rework btw, very keen to see the results of your's+others' hard work :)


No. RW works like Vanilla D2