[2.0] The Runewords Overhaul

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ParticuLarry
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Scalewinged wrote:
ParticuLarry wrote:
Scalewinged wrote:Imagine runes can't be downgraded anymore :lol:


Is that actually a thing? I haven't read anything the like in the announcement.


I just guess so if runewords actually will become more worthful - then it's obvious there will be some downside making them harder to make. Since upgrading still a thing and even they allowing you to make enhanced runes (and get them as world drop) - then logical step (along with removing runeword rerolling) would be disabling downgrading or nerfing drop rate which i hope won't happen.


I see.

My issue is that I would indeed love to know. But maybe them not mentioning any changes regarding downgrades means downgrades weren't changed?

Yeah, that has nothing to do with you since you just summed up what the removal of downgrades would entail. I, too hope that downgrading is still a thing in 2.0.

I guess we just have to wait for official confirmation.
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cnlnjzfjb
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ParticuLarry wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:
ParticuLarry wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:We dont care about shared stash, but multi-paged stash seems necessary. Since the rework of runewords, more runes need to be stored and one page stash would not be enough anymore if no shared stash.


Aren't you slightly exaggerating? Even now I usually have 2 Nih Lai or On runes in my inventory, not even in the stash, at any given moment. Even if that number is increased to 8, I can still make 2-3 runewords with that depending on the rw. For the most part of the game where runewords are usful (from the current perspective) you have enough space in the inventory/stash to just grab them and leave them until you use them. Having a multi-paged stash isn't exactly necessary just because you have to plan in 6 more 1 x 1 slots.

No, u didnt see the runewords rework in 2.0? Why u take "now" for example? "now" is 1.8, and 1.8 is very different from 2.0, I didnt see ur point here.
Dont u know that runes can't be downgraded in 2.0??? 33 basic runes and another 33 enhanced runes, now tell me how many necessary runes u need to store in 2.0 since they cant be downgraded??? And even if they can be downgraded in 2.0, will u only store sth like 66, or 65 in normal times, and downgrade them to use when u need a 44? Just because u never store a 44 rune? I wouldnt do that, cause high runes will be costly in 2.0.
In 2.0, u need to store more runes than 1.8.


That's why I was asking Scaledwinged if this is a thing. Because there is no mention of downgrading being impossible in the first post.

But seeing how you pointed to the first post of this thread regarding downgrading being impossible, I can see where a confusion might arise. They only talked about upgrading. But that was just a mention that you can upgrade zod runes to empowered runes, while downgrading wasn't mentioned at all, so I can only assume that was mentioned only to say: hey, you can continue upgrading even empowered runes.

The absence of a mention regarding downgrades doesn't mean it's indeed impossible to downgrade.

Unless you have confirmed information on that, (like from a beta player or a mod instead of a post that doesn't mention anything regarding downgrades) which I would gladly receive, the "no downgrade" is much rather fear mongering than anything of substance. So yeah the question remains: is this actually a thing or not?

Lets say, the key of this problem is not the downgrading. Even if it can be downgraded, I wouldnt downgrade a 66 or 65 to get a 44 in 2.0, like everyone did in 1.8, downgrading a 50 to 44 easily. Since high runes like 65 or 66 will be costly in 2.0, while 50 in 1.8 is worth nothing.
And yes, runes cant be downgraded in 2.0, if thats what u care most.
ParticuLarry
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cnlnjzfjb wrote:Lets say, the key of this problem is not the downgrading. Even if it can be downgraded, I wouldnt downgrade a 66 or 65 to get a 44 in 2.0, like everyone did in 1.8, downgrading a 50 to 44 easily. Since high runes like 65 or 66 will be costly in 2.0, while 50 in 1.8 is worth nothing.
And yes, runes cant be downgraded in 2.0, if thats what u care most.


Alright I understand. You only referred to the first post in this thread for that mention, but it seems to me you have other sources indeed. I'll ask some beta players on discord later today to see if this is a real thing.
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cnlnjzfjb
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ParticuLarry wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:Lets say, the key of this problem is not the downgrading. Even if it can be downgraded, I wouldnt downgrade a 66 or 65 to get a 44 in 2.0, like everyone did in 1.8, downgrading a 50 to 44 easily. Since high runes like 65 or 66 will be costly in 2.0, while 50 in 1.8 is worth nothing.
And yes, runes cant be downgraded in 2.0, if thats what u care most.


Alright I understand. You only referred to the first post in this thread for that mention, but it seems to me you have other sources indeed. I'll ask some beta players on discord later today to see if this is a real thing.

:) In fact, I dont care about the stash or runewords rework, whatever.
Since devs know that 1.8 season would be a long one before 2.0 at the first, they should lower the drop rate in 1.8 to keep 1.8 season longer and active.
On the contrary, the Goblins they added in 1.8 resulted in a very high drop rate and relic abuse, which made 1.8 easy and boring. And 1.8 sc was soon dead in like 1.5 or 2 months while 2.0 is still far away.....
I know Goblins are regarded as a "gift" for 1.X MXL, but in fact, they just killed 1.8. A too easy game like 1.8 will never be some real fun.
Thats why I hope 2.0 would be released soon, which seems not quite the way I hope. Devs have their own thoughts.
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ParticuLarry wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:We dont care about shared stash, but multi-paged stash seems necessary. Since the rework of runewords, more runes need to be stored and one page stash would not be enough anymore if no shared stash.


Aren't you slightly exaggerating? Even now I usually have 2 Nih Lai or On runes in my inventory, not even in the stash, at any given moment. Even if that number is increased to 8, I can still make 2-3 runewords with that depending on the rw. For the most part of the game where runewords are usful (from the current perspective) you have enough space in the inventory/stash to just grab them and leave them until you use them. Having a multi-paged stash isn't exactly necessary just because you have to plan in 6 more 1 x 1 slots.


nope he's not exaggerating it takes all of 20 seconds to run in toraja and grab any normal rune you need no point in hoarding them.

edit: whoops ignore that top part i didnt read your post all the way lol, but bottom part still applies

but with having only 1 oil per base you might need an extra page to farm bases if you really wanna get that 1% phys res roll.... seems like a little overkill with the non unsocketable runes. but that part is understandable if all rws are getting a buff. just think the 1 oil per base is overkill
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cnlnjzfjb wrote:
ParticuLarry wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:Lets say, the key of this problem is not the downgrading. Even if it can be downgraded, I wouldnt downgrade a 66 or 65 to get a 44 in 2.0, like everyone did in 1.8, downgrading a 50 to 44 easily. Since high runes like 65 or 66 will be costly in 2.0, while 50 in 1.8 is worth nothing.
And yes, runes cant be downgraded in 2.0, if thats what u care most.


Alright I understand. You only referred to the first post in this thread for that mention, but it seems to me you have other sources indeed. I'll ask some beta players on discord later today to see if this is a real thing.

:) In fact, I dont care about the stash or runewords rework, whatever.
Since devs know that 1.8 season would be a long one before 2.0 at the first, they should lower the drop rate in 1.8 to keep 1.8 season longer and active.
On the contrary, the Goblins they added in 1.8 resulted in a very high drop rate and relic abuse, which made 1.8 easy and boring. And 1.8 sc was soon dead in like 1.5 or 2 months while 2.0 is still far away.....
I know Goblins are regarded as a "gift" for 1.X MXL, but in fact, they just killed 1.8. A too easy game like 1.8 will never be some real fun.
Thats why I hope 2.0 would be released soon, which seems not quite the way I hope. Devs have their own thoughts.


i dont think the goblins are really what killed 1.8, i mean yeah they killed trade but i feel like the nerfing of most builds out of viability did a lot more dmg to 1.8 than the goblins, if a build is too strong buff the other classes buff the mobs, just gotta get the devs to quit nerfing skills out of viability, median was better when all classes/skills were viable and no matter what character you made you could get it to work.
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Itchy_ wrote:i dont think the goblins are really what killed 1.8, i mean yeah they killed trade but i feel like the nerfing of most builds out of viability did a lot more dmg to 1.8 than the goblins, if a build is too strong buff the other classes buff the mobs, just gotta get the devs to quit nerfing skills out of viability, median was better when all classes/skills were viable and no matter what character you made you could get it to work.


What you are actually saying here without realizing it is that "balancing" the skills is what killed diversity. Now that all skills are (mostly) balanced damage wise, nothing really sticks out as the de-facto tour de force like it used to, and this kills the "fun" factor for many players. Developers who are wiser than me as a non-developer have said many times before that once you balance a game perfectly, the players begin to leave; to truly keep players interested in the game, you have to have an imbalance, rather intentional or not. There has to be some class or skill that outshines the rest so the power-creeps can feel like they got ahead of the pack, otherwise you risk alienating a decent sized portion of your player base and once they're gone, more will follow. A perfect game never achieves balance and is always being "balanced".
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cnlnjzfjb
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Itchy_ wrote:i dont think the goblins are really what killed 1.8, i mean yeah they killed trade but i feel like the nerfing of most builds out of viability did a lot more dmg to 1.8 than the goblins, if a build is too strong buff the other classes buff the mobs, just gotta get the devs to quit nerfing skills out of viability, median was better when all classes/skills were viable and no matter what character you made you could get it to work.

Yeah, goblins killed the trade and 1.8 sc.
The balancing of all builds is a long story, not just in 1.8. And maybe thats why ama will get a major rework in 2.0? Who knows :D
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cnlnjzfjb wrote:
Itchy_ wrote:i dont think the goblins are really what killed 1.8, i mean yeah they killed trade but i feel like the nerfing of most builds out of viability did a lot more dmg to 1.8 than the goblins, if a build is too strong buff the other classes buff the mobs, just gotta get the devs to quit nerfing skills out of viability, median was better when all classes/skills were viable and no matter what character you made you could get it to work.

Yeah, goblins killed the trade and 1.8 sc.
The balancing of all builds is a long story, not just in 1.8. And maybe thats why ama will get a major rework in 2.0? Who knows :D


I gave up bitching about the viability of spearzons and hammerzons a year and a half ago. Haven’t really played much since. If Zons get a major rework, I’ll start playing religiously again.
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Taem wrote:
Itchy_ wrote:i dont think the goblins are really what killed 1.8, i mean yeah they killed trade but i feel like the nerfing of most builds out of viability did a lot more dmg to 1.8 than the goblins, if a build is too strong buff the other classes buff the mobs, just gotta get the devs to quit nerfing skills out of viability, median was better when all classes/skills were viable and no matter what character you made you could get it to work.


What you are actually saying here without realizing it is that "balancing" the skills is what killed diversity. Now that all skills are (mostly) balanced damage wise, nothing really sticks out as the de-facto tour de force like it used to, and this kills the "fun" factor for many players. Developers who are wiser than me as a non-developer have said many times before that once you balance a game perfectly, the players begin to leave; to truly keep players interested in the game, you have to have an imbalance, rather intentional or not. There has to be some class or skill that outshines the rest so the power-creeps can feel like they got ahead of the pack, otherwise you risk alienating a decent sized portion of your player base and once they're gone, more will follow. A perfect game never achieves balance and is always being "balanced".


no i said what i meant, there is no balance here. there used to be a slight semblance of balance but now there are a few powerful builds and a bunch of worthless skills that arent worth running anymore, thats why you see mostly voidstar druids totem necs and fire sorc, cause for now they still work. it makes no difference to me either way i run xbow necro whether it gets nerfed or not and im not worried about being at the top of the ladders but its sad not seeing other builds that you used to see all the time, i cant race melee necs in fauzt anymore cause theyre not viable, where are the jav/bow zons? what about the bow druids? they're gone bro sooner ppl realize this has been happening for years and start speaking up instead of sucking up to the devs maybe they'll get the hint and make changes for the betterment of the game and community as a whole instead of bringing in more players for the short term that dont stick it out more than one season.

and yeah it bothers me because the thing that drew me to median like many other many people was the claim that "all skills are viable" used to be posted on main page of laz's site but thats not the case anymore

but i actually do agree with you about the imbalance part everybody wants an o.p. build and to just run through stuff from time to time but that gets old quick, im not against them balancing things but they don't really try to balance anything they make some changes see whats at the top of the list then they nerf it ouf of existence to force people to try other stuff thats usually not at the top of the ladder all while claiming balance and improving the game but they're not doing either failing on both fronts at the expense of the player base. and you don't have to nerf everything to balance it if one build is over powered buff the other builds to match the over powered one, if mobs are too weak for builds buff the mobs but no its too much work for all that its easier to nerf on class or a couple skills here and there then actually improve the whole game and i get it time constraints all that jazz but its not impossible and if they really wanted to improve median they could save up some of these concerns that me and many others have posted over the years and put them into a rework patch like 2.0 for instance, but they wont because they dont care about the community they care about numbers and money

actually that needs a clarification not all of the devs are like that some actually do care and ive seen some actually speak out against some changes that have been made but the ones calling the shots who have final say dont give a damn

point and case though, goblins killed trade nothing is worth anything nobodies buying tg, so what do they do runeword overhaul, 1 oil per base no more unsocketing runes, you want people to buy tg lower drop rates make it harder to find good gear and noobs will pay for tg because it sucks farming the same zone for weeks and still find nothing, it will fix trade though so im not complaining about that i like farming stuff and making tg off people, but i dont like median being dead constantly and no new players sticking around it gets old quick