Median XL News, May 2025

delete melee nec

Thx for letting us know you are still alive and kicking. Sounds like good times ahead.

About lvling progression, I used to hate you guys for adding the lvl regs to ubers, but nowadays I dont even notice them. Lvling is pretty smooth to 135-140, which is the point I usually get bored of the build and start something new. My main of the new bigger patch often gets to see 150 eventually but otherwise as suchbalance said, last lvls are not that impactful unless you are min-maxing (10 lvls is still a lot in terms of upgrading items) which is pretty pointless in my eyes in PvM game.

Yippee

rework widowmaker pretty please :beg:

Well, if people are posting ideas then I might as well waste your time with mine too. I'm not excellent at this game, but I have a lot of fun playing it, so don't take anything I say all that seriously.

This idea would probably take some time to implement but: is there any way to make the dimensional labyrinth more, well, labyrinthian? That is, multiple possible paths to take? Maybe there could be a central "corridor" with the old level names like "dimensional labyrinth level 3" but you could also find riftstones leading to alternate paths, each with its own endgame content. The stones could open up new paths that each have a few levels to them, with each path taking place only in one area type (like the caves or the cathedral or whatever it is). This would allow some of the areas that never made it into the original labyrinth to see some love. It'd be a lot of fun to maybe see some of the quests from the original arcane sanctuary from the diablo 1 expansion (this would fit very well, thematically). The 'creature of flame' quest could be moved from early game and become a part of the labyrinth? Perhaps these could be dropped from bosses and mini-bosses encountered in the labs. What'd be even cooler is if you needed to locate certain locations or rooms within the lab to be able to open the portal.

Much easier and smaller idea: A phy/magic coven for the sorceress that includes a skill like paragon or runemaster but that applies to jewels? Maybe?

TrevorLahey wrote:Well, if people are posting ideas then I might as well waste your time with mine too. I'm not excellent at this game, but I have a lot of fun playing it, so don't take anything I say all that seriously.

This idea would probably take some time to implement but: is there any way to make the dimensional labyrinth more, well, labyrinthian? That is, multiple possible paths to take? Maybe there could be a central "corridor" with the old level names like "dimensional labyrinth level 3" but you could also find riftstones leading to alternate paths, each with its own endgame content. The stones could open up new paths that each have a few levels to them, with each path taking place only in one area type (like the caves or the cathedral or whatever it is). This would allow some of the areas that never made it into the original labyrinth to see some love. It'd be a lot of fun to maybe see some of the quests from the original arcane sanctuary from the diablo 1 expansion (this would fit very well, thematically). The 'creature of flame' quest could be moved from early game and become a part of the labyrinth? Perhaps these could be dropped from bosses and mini-bosses encountered in the labs. What'd be even cooler is if you needed to locate certain locations or rooms within the lab to be able to open the portal.

Much easier and smaller idea: A phy/magic coven for the sorceress that includes a skill like paragon or runemaster but that applies to jewels? Maybe?

Nice idea! To make the labyrinth particularly grueling, how about one stair down to the next level, so you start in L1, and have to. hack and slash your way down to L9. Rift stones to lower levels can still drop, but decrease rarity by 50%.

Taem wrote:
TrevorLahey wrote:Well, if people are posting ideas then I might as well waste your time with mine too. I'm not excellent at this game, but I have a lot of fun playing it, so don't take anything I say all that seriously.

This idea would probably take some time to implement but: is there any way to make the dimensional labyrinth more, well, labyrinthian? That is, multiple possible paths to take? Maybe there could be a central "corridor" with the old level names like "dimensional labyrinth level 3" but you could also find riftstones leading to alternate paths, each with its own endgame content. The stones could open up new paths that each have a few levels to them, with each path taking place only in one area type (like the caves or the cathedral or whatever it is). This would allow some of the areas that never made it into the original labyrinth to see some love. It'd be a lot of fun to maybe see some of the quests from the original arcane sanctuary from the diablo 1 expansion (this would fit very well, thematically). The 'creature of flame' quest could be moved from early game and become a part of the labyrinth? Perhaps these could be dropped from bosses and mini-bosses encountered in the labs. What'd be even cooler is if you needed to locate certain locations or rooms within the lab to be able to open the portal.

Much easier and smaller idea: A phy/magic coven for the sorceress that includes a skill like paragon or runemaster but that applies to jewels? Maybe?

Nice idea! To make the labyrinth particularly grueling, how about one stair down to the next level, so you start in L1, and have to. hack and slash your way down to L9. Rift stones to lower levels can still drop, but decrease rarity by 50%.

With the exception of the final lab level and the various Deimoss arenas, labs' maps are random generated. Due to several D2 limitations, these ideas cannot be actualized in the current system but would require a complete rework of its structure, progression and an insane amount of effort put into the creation of several dozens of different hand-made maps. Would be like creating a "mini" alternate MXL on top of MXL. It's not an impossible task, but it may as well be considered so, and tbh not even worth the effort since current lab status isn't so flawed as to warrant such undertaking. At this point, smaller, targeted improvements are a better way to go about that piece of content.

RequiemLux wrote:
Taem wrote:
TrevorLahey wrote:Due to several D2 limitations, these ideas cannot be actualized in the current system but would require a complete rework of its structure, progression and an insane amount of effort put into the creation of several dozens of different hand-made maps.

Would they, though? I'll probably take others' word for it over mine because I really don't know much about modding, but I feel like I've seen all or most of the pieces needed already implemented in median xl. The multiple paths thing would be easy. Just have a few different stones with different names and flavor that take you to different randomly generated paths. Each path would look different and feature different enemies, modifiers, and loot. As for the needing specific conditions to open certain portals, I feel like that would only require creative use of things already in the game. If mechanisms like the compelling orb in act 3 or the orifice in act 2 can't be written in to other areas, then use another condition. There are plenty of randomized zones in the base game and median that have spawn a chest with a quest item and the same unique monster always spawns with it. Couldn't they just put an monster that has an aura allowing the portal to be opened? Maybe a stationary, non-targetable monster that acts like more of an object? The item needed to open a portal could give you cryptic hints and whatnot when you right click it and open a portal when you cube it. Maybe I'm wildly wrong and all of it would just be way to much work. I really wouldn't know. But all that doesn't necessarily have to take place just to separate the labyrinth into sections.

Edit: I don't know, I just really like the idea of 'rare' riftstones and getting lost trying to navigate the labyrinth. Running through the normal way is fun too, but I want to get lost and have to navigate it like a labyrinth. If need be, there could be some handcrafted foyers or other central areas that aren't randomly generated. If scripting is easier in hand-made areas, just have a chance in certain labyrinth levels to be connected the traditional way (like durance level 1 and 2) to a simple pre-made area. Could be a safe hallway that leads to a random part of the labyrinth, could be a boss room, reward room, whatever. Yes, all of this is a very tall order.

TrevorLahey wrote:
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Would they, though? I'll probably take others' word for it over mine because I really don't know much about modding, but I feel like I've seen all or most of the pieces needed already implemented in median xl. The multiple paths thing would be easy. Just have a few different stones with different names and flavor that take you to different randomly generated paths. Each path would look different and feature different enemies, modifiers, and loot. As for the needing specific conditions to open certain portals, I feel like that would only require creative use of things already in the game. If mechanisms like the compelling orb in act 3 or the orifice in act 2 can't be written in to other areas, then use another condition. There are plenty of randomized zones in the base game and median that have spawn a chest with a quest item and the same unique monster always spawns with it. Couldn't they just put an monster that has an aura allowing the portal to be opened? Maybe a stationary, non-targetable monster that acts like more of an object? The item needed to open a portal could give you cryptic hints and whatnot when you right click it and open a portal when you cube it. Maybe I'm wildly wrong and all of it would just be way to much work. I really wouldn't know. But all that doesn't necessarily have to take place just to separate the labyrinth into sections.

Edit: I don't know, I just really like the idea of 'rare' riftstones and getting lost trying to navigate the labyrinth. Running through the normal way is fun too, but I want to get lost and have to navigate it like a labyrinth. If need be, there could be some handcrafted foyers or other central areas that aren't randomly generated. If scripting is easier in hand-made areas, just have a chance in certain labyrinth levels to be connected the traditional way (like durance level 1 and 2) to a simple pre-made area. Could be a safe hallway that leads to a random part of the labyrinth, could be a boss room, reward room, whatever. Yes, all of this is a very tall order.

It is normal to assume what you are assuming because when it comes to maps (and many other things) D2 works in a messy and sometimes unintuitive way. I'll try to oversimplify a few key things so that we are on the same page: when a map is randomly generated in D2, partially what actually happens is that the game chooses from a "library" of set pieces (composed of specifically arranged tiles) that are quite literally tiny map sections which get arranged in a number of combinations as to ultimately create an actual map to be used ingame. If you want for something to be present with 100% certainty in a specific map section (like Izual in Act3 or an invisible object that spawn a monster/boss or a simple quest chest) you have to index that something in a list of objects that can be manually placed inside one of the various set pieces by which a map is constituted. Here, at this basic point, D2 already throws three main issues at the potential level deigner:

1) You cannot create your own set pieces to use in a random generated map, and are forced to use those provided by the game library.
2) You can have a monster with 100% chance to drop something but have no control whatsoever over a chest dropping what you want it to drop.
3) If you alter one of the set pieces then all the game maps using that specific piece will themselves be altered and carry the change, often with bad consequences.

How can a level designer partially overcame these premature limitations? The answer is that if any of the element above is key to your dungeon design you'll have to opt-out of using random generated maps and instead create your own custom map.
What is a custom map? well, remember that a random generated map is comprised of different pre-existing pieces? Renouncing the comfy auto-generated variety, a custom map basically allows to ignore the set pieces part and painstakingly handcraft a map 1 tile at a time (tile being the smallest unit of ground/wall a map set piece is comprise of). Thus some of the limits previously applied no longer affects you because your custom map no longer uses the set pieces and whatever you put inside will not pollute the library and affect a bunch of unrelated other maps ingame.

Now, looking at the 3 points above some questions may arise, let's go over them:
Regarding 1) If I'm forced to use the set pieces of the library, how come some maps have walls and terrain nowhere to be seen in the vanilla game? It's because those are not random generated maps and one advantage of custom maps is that (if you want) you can build them with tiles you have ported into the game yourself.
Regarding 2) If you have no control on what a chest can 100% drop, how come "quest" chests in Scosglen always drop the needed page and in the same order too? Those are not chests but stationary monster reskinned as chest, it's a trick.
Regarding 3) Since Izual (for example) is placed in a set pieces used in random generated maps of Hell, how come you don't encounter him in all other random generated maps using Hell's set pieces? You can exclude a specific piece config to be used in a location, as long as it doesn't end up fucking up the rest. They were designed to be used that way and that way alone.

Now, custom maps can work their way around some depressing limitations but come with a plethora of drawbacks both direct (D2 fuckery) and indirect (amount of effort and devtime needed to craft them), and these in addition to further innate D2 restrictions, like hard limitations on non-portal entries/exits you can have in a map, wordspace, map chains, palette rendering linked to Acts/UI/etc..., minimap fuckery, tiles layers acting up at certain distance from the screen center, light sources placed on maps not rendering or bugging out depending on the video mode chosen by the player, or even more esoteric oddballs D2 may throw your way but that defy logic...
There are some workaround for some of the things you are proposing but not for all (such that the integrity of the proposal is maintained), plus, due to the nature of D2 limitations and tools used to interact with it, the workload can exponentially increase depending on where the line is drawn. I hope the oversimplification on this narrow slice of modding hasn't ruined the intelligibility of the message.

I feel like leveling is fun as-is. Hope you don't turn it into PoE2, where the campaign is a slog, difficult, and time-consuming. If the goal is to keep leveling mostly the same, but buff some of the low-performing low-level skills to make leveling more well rounded, and rewarding, regardless of skill tree... good. But, I really hope leveling doesn't turn into a 20+ hour campaign just to get to the end game, which is why we are all here.