Short Questions Thread

Didn't know I could use any weapon class offhand.

Sterrenvogel

Sterrenvogel
Throwing Axe (4)
Required Level: 1
Required Strength: 15
Item Level: 1
Innate Lightning Damage: (13.0% of Strength)
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
10% Movement Speed
+100 to Attack Rating
Adds (6 to 7)-(9 to 10) Lightning Damage
-(6 to 8)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+100 Defense
Socketed (1)
Required Level: 17
Required Strength: 36
Item Level: 31
Innate Lightning Damage: (20.0% of Strength)
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
15% Movement Speed
+250 to Attack Rating
Adds (20 to 21)-(30 to 31) Lightning Damage
-(11 to 13)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+250 Defense
Socketed (2)
Required Level: 36
Required Strength: 81
Item Level: 51
Innate Lightning Damage: (26.0% of Strength)
+2 to Barbarian Skill Levels
20% Movement Speed
+500 to Attack Rating
Adds (58 to 60)-(90 to 93) Lightning Damage
-(16 to 18)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+500 Defense
Socketed (2)
Required Level: 45
Required Strength: 167
Item Level: 77
Innate Lightning Damage: (33.0% of Strength)
+3 to Barbarian Skill Levels
25% Movement Speed
+1000 to Attack Rating
Adds (174 to 180)-(250 to 260) Lightning Damage
-(18 to 20)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+1000 Defense
Socketed (2)

is probably superior. I say probably because I don't know how the flat poison damage added from

Destroying Angel

Destroying Angel
Small Shield (4)
Defense: (59 - 65) to (112 - 123)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 2
Required Strength: 27
Required Dexterity: 34
Item Level: 1
+50 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(6 to 10)% to Poison Spell Damage
-3% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (4 to 5)%
+(12 to 23)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(21 to 25)%
Requirements +10%
Socketed (1)
Defense: (229 - 248) to (363 - 392)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 20
Required Strength: 60
Required Dexterity: 55
Item Level: 31
+150 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(16 to 20)% to Poison Spell Damage
-6% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (8 to 9)%
+(35 to 46)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(31 to 35)%
Requirements +20%
Socketed (3)
Defense: (581 - 621) to (880 - 941)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 37
Required Strength: 227
Required Dexterity: 124
Item Level: 51
+300 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(26 to 30)% to Poison Spell Damage
-9% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (12 to 15)%
+(58 to 69)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(41 to 45)%
Requirements +30%
Socketed (4)
Defense: (858 - 914) to (1287 - 1371)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 46
Required Strength: 490
Required Dexterity: 278
Item Level: 77
+600 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(36 to 40)% to Poison Spell Damage
-12% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (16 to 20)%
+(69 to 80)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(46 to 50)%
Requirements +40%
Socketed (4)

and

Vilehand

Vilehand
Leather Gloves (4)
Defense: 6 to 8
Required Level: 1
Required Strength: 25
Item Level: 1
+(3 to 5)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(6 to 10)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (31 to 35)%
Socketed (1)
Defense: 70 to 75
Required Level: 17
Required Strength: 50
Item Level: 31
+(0 to 1) to All Skills
+(6 to 8)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(11 to 15)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (36 to 40)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 176 to 184
Required Level: 34
Required Strength: 175
Item Level: 51
+1 to All Skills
+(8 to 10)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(16 to 20)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (41 to 45)%
Socketed (3)
Defense: 243 to 258
Required Level: 43
Required Strength: 350
Item Level: 77
+1 to All Skills
+(11 to 13)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(21 to 25)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (46 to 50)%
Socketed (4)

affects total damage.

Still, 20% ctc Spike Nova seems so small. Will try it with

Grim Fang

Grim Fang
Short Sword (4)
One-Hand Damage: (4 - 5) to 7
Required Level: 30
Item Level: 1
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(3 to 5)% Life stolen per Hit
-3% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(18 to 29)% Enhanced Damage
+(1 to 3) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+10 to Strength
Poison Resist +(11 to 15)%
Socketed (1)
One-Hand Damage: (12 - 13) to (14 - 15)
Required Level: 30
Required Strength: 18
Item Level: 31
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(9 to 11)% Life stolen per Hit
-6% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(41 to 52)% Enhanced Damage
+(3 to 6) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+20 to Strength
Poison Resist +(21 to 25)%
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (22 - 24) to (24 - 26)
Required Level: 37
Required Strength: 49
Item Level: 51
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(15 to 17)% Life stolen per Hit
-9% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(64 to 75)% Enhanced Damage
+(7 to 12) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+30 to Strength
Poison Resist +(31 to 35)%
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (29 - 31) to (33 - 35)
Required Level: 46
Required Strength: 104
Item Level: 77
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(18 to 20)% Life stolen per Hit
-12% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(75 to 86)% Enhanced Damage
+(13 to 18) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+40 to Strength
Poison Resist +(36 to 40)%
Socketed (3)

and

Jared's Fragmentor

Jared's Fragmentor
Claymore (4)
One-Hand Damage: (7 - 8) to (12 - 15)
Two-Hand Damage: (9 - 11) to (15 - 18)
Required Level: 2
Required Strength: 41
Item Level: 10
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
5% Chance to cast level 4 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(4 to 6) to Maximum Damage
+(41 to 60)% Enhanced Damage
(2 to 3)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(21 to 30) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (20 - 22) to (30 - 36)
Two-Hand Damage: (27 - 30) to (37 - 44)
Required Level: 21
Required Strength: 69
Item Level: 31
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
10% Chance to cast level 8 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(8 to 12) to Maximum Damage
+(71 to 90)% Enhanced Damage
(4 to 6)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(46 to 60) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (36 - 39) to (58 - 70)
Two-Hand Damage: (58 - 63) to (80 - 94)
Required Level: 39
Required Strength: 142
Item Level: 51
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 12 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(16 to 24) to Maximum Damage
+(101 to 120)% Enhanced Damage
(7 to 9)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(71 to 90) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (4)
One-Hand Damage: (48 - 52) to (89 - 110)
Two-Hand Damage: (83 - 90) to (117 - 140)
Required Level: 50
Required Strength: 283
Item Level: 77
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
20% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(32 to 48) to Maximum Damage
+(131 to 150)% Enhanced Damage
(10 to 12)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(91 to 120) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (4)

before I make conclusions. I might add

Death Spur

Death Spur
Heavy Boots (4)
Defense: 27 to 39
Required Level: 3
Required Strength: 27
Item Level: 1
1% Chance to cast level 6 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.09375 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(11 to 15) to Strength
+(11 to 15) to Dexterity
Socketed (1)
Defense: 109 to 141
Required Level: 20
Required Strength: 55
Item Level: 31
1% Chance to cast level 10 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.15625 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(21 to 25) to Strength
+(21 to 25) to Dexterity
Socketed (2)
Defense: 248 to 310
Required Level: 38
Required Strength: 193
Item Level: 51
1% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.21875 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(31 to 35) to Strength
+(31 to 35) to Dexterity
Socketed (3)
Defense: 346 to 427
Required Level: 46
Required Strength: 386
Item Level: 77
1% Chance to cast level 16 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.25 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(36 to 40) to Strength
+(36 to 40) to Dexterity
Socketed (4)

for more Spike Nova.

Even 10% ctc with dualwield whirlwind becoming spam. Ofc you need to have enough AR...

Johnny Impak wrote:Didn't know I could use any weapon class offhand.
Sterrenvogel
Sterrenvogel
Throwing Axe (4)
Required Level: 1
Required Strength: 15
Item Level: 1
Innate Lightning Damage: (13.0% of Strength)
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
10% Movement Speed
+100 to Attack Rating
Adds (6 to 7)-(9 to 10) Lightning Damage
-(6 to 8)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+100 Defense
Socketed (1)
Required Level: 17
Required Strength: 36
Item Level: 31
Innate Lightning Damage: (20.0% of Strength)
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
15% Movement Speed
+250 to Attack Rating
Adds (20 to 21)-(30 to 31) Lightning Damage
-(11 to 13)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+250 Defense
Socketed (2)
Required Level: 36
Required Strength: 81
Item Level: 51
Innate Lightning Damage: (26.0% of Strength)
+2 to Barbarian Skill Levels
20% Movement Speed
+500 to Attack Rating
Adds (58 to 60)-(90 to 93) Lightning Damage
-(16 to 18)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+500 Defense
Socketed (2)
Required Level: 45
Required Strength: 167
Item Level: 77
Innate Lightning Damage: (33.0% of Strength)
+3 to Barbarian Skill Levels
25% Movement Speed
+1000 to Attack Rating
Adds (174 to 180)-(250 to 260) Lightning Damage
-(18 to 20)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+1000 Defense
Socketed (2)
is probably superior. I say probably because I don't know how the flat poison damage added from
Destroying Angel
Destroying Angel
Small Shield (4)
Defense: (59 - 65) to (112 - 123)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 2
Required Strength: 27
Required Dexterity: 34
Item Level: 1
+50 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(6 to 10)% to Poison Spell Damage
-3% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (4 to 5)%
+(12 to 23)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(21 to 25)%
Requirements +10%
Socketed (1)
Defense: (229 - 248) to (363 - 392)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 20
Required Strength: 60
Required Dexterity: 55
Item Level: 31
+150 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(16 to 20)% to Poison Spell Damage
-6% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (8 to 9)%
+(35 to 46)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(31 to 35)%
Requirements +20%
Socketed (3)
Defense: (581 - 621) to (880 - 941)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 37
Required Strength: 227
Required Dexterity: 124
Item Level: 51
+300 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(26 to 30)% to Poison Spell Damage
-9% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (12 to 15)%
+(58 to 69)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(41 to 45)%
Requirements +30%
Socketed (4)
Defense: (858 - 914) to (1287 - 1371)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 46
Required Strength: 490
Required Dexterity: 278
Item Level: 77
+600 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
+(36 to 40)% to Poison Spell Damage
-12% to Enemy Poison Resistance
Attacker Flees after Striking (16 to 20)%
+(69 to 80)% Enhanced Defense
Poison Resist +(46 to 50)%
Requirements +40%
Socketed (4)
and
Vilehand
Vilehand
Leather Gloves (4)
Defense: 6 to 8
Required Level: 1
Required Strength: 25
Item Level: 1
+(3 to 5)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(6 to 10)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (31 to 35)%
Socketed (1)
Defense: 70 to 75
Required Level: 17
Required Strength: 50
Item Level: 31
+(0 to 1) to All Skills
+(6 to 8)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(11 to 15)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (36 to 40)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 176 to 184
Required Level: 34
Required Strength: 175
Item Level: 51
+1 to All Skills
+(8 to 10)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(16 to 20)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (41 to 45)%
Socketed (3)
Defense: 243 to 258
Required Level: 43
Required Strength: 350
Item Level: 77
+1 to All Skills
+(11 to 13)% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(21 to 25)% to Poison Spell Damage
Poison Length Reduced by (46 to 50)%
Socketed (4)
affects total damage.

Still, 20% ctc Spike Nova seems so small. Will try it with
Grim Fang
Grim Fang
Short Sword (4)
One-Hand Damage: (4 - 5) to 7
Required Level: 30
Item Level: 1
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(3 to 5)% Life stolen per Hit
-3% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(18 to 29)% Enhanced Damage
+(1 to 3) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+10 to Strength
Poison Resist +(11 to 15)%
Socketed (1)
One-Hand Damage: (12 - 13) to (14 - 15)
Required Level: 30
Required Strength: 18
Item Level: 31
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(9 to 11)% Life stolen per Hit
-6% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(41 to 52)% Enhanced Damage
+(3 to 6) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+20 to Strength
Poison Resist +(21 to 25)%
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (22 - 24) to (24 - 26)
Required Level: 37
Required Strength: 49
Item Level: 51
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(15 to 17)% Life stolen per Hit
-9% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(64 to 75)% Enhanced Damage
+(7 to 12) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+30 to Strength
Poison Resist +(31 to 35)%
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (29 - 31) to (33 - 35)
Required Level: 46
Required Strength: 104
Item Level: 77
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Strength)%
(18 to 20)% Life stolen per Hit
-12% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(75 to 86)% Enhanced Damage
+(13 to 18) to Holy Fire (Paladin Only)
+40 to Strength
Poison Resist +(36 to 40)%
Socketed (3)
and
Jared's Fragmentor
Jared's Fragmentor
Claymore (4)
One-Hand Damage: (7 - 8) to (12 - 15)
Two-Hand Damage: (9 - 11) to (15 - 18)
Required Level: 2
Required Strength: 41
Item Level: 10
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
5% Chance to cast level 4 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(4 to 6) to Maximum Damage
+(41 to 60)% Enhanced Damage
(2 to 3)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(21 to 30) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (20 - 22) to (30 - 36)
Two-Hand Damage: (27 - 30) to (37 - 44)
Required Level: 21
Required Strength: 69
Item Level: 31
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
10% Chance to cast level 8 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(8 to 12) to Maximum Damage
+(71 to 90)% Enhanced Damage
(4 to 6)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(46 to 60) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (36 - 39) to (58 - 70)
Two-Hand Damage: (58 - 63) to (80 - 94)
Required Level: 39
Required Strength: 142
Item Level: 51
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 12 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(16 to 24) to Maximum Damage
+(101 to 120)% Enhanced Damage
(7 to 9)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(71 to 90) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (4)
One-Hand Damage: (48 - 52) to (89 - 110)
Two-Hand Damage: (83 - 90) to (117 - 140)
Required Level: 50
Required Strength: 283
Item Level: 77
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
20% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(32 to 48) to Maximum Damage
+(131 to 150)% Enhanced Damage
(10 to 12)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(91 to 120) Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (4)
before I make conclusions. I might add
Death Spur
Death Spur
Heavy Boots (4)
Defense: 27 to 39
Required Level: 3
Required Strength: 27
Item Level: 1
1% Chance to cast level 6 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.09375 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(11 to 15) to Strength
+(11 to 15) to Dexterity
Socketed (1)
Defense: 109 to 141
Required Level: 20
Required Strength: 55
Item Level: 31
1% Chance to cast level 10 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.15625 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(21 to 25) to Strength
+(21 to 25) to Dexterity
Socketed (2)
Defense: 248 to 310
Required Level: 38
Required Strength: 193
Item Level: 51
1% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.21875 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(31 to 35) to Strength
+(31 to 35) to Dexterity
Socketed (3)
Defense: 346 to 427
Required Level: 46
Required Strength: 386
Item Level: 77
1% Chance to cast level 16 Spike Nova on Kill
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
+0.25 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(36 to 40) to Strength
+(36 to 40) to Dexterity
Socketed (4)
for more Spike Nova.

The selling point of Windform is that it effectively gives you a 2fpa attack, while hitting twice per attack if there are at least 2 enemies in range, and since you ain't killing nothing with your phys dmg, this results in tons of melee hits per second, allowing you to spam high ctc procs like crazy.

I also highly recommend using

Wormtongue

Wormtongue
Light Belt (4)
Defense: (53 - 58) to (71 - 78)
Required Level: 3
Required Strength: 26
Item Level: 1
(31 to 50)% Bonus to Attack Rating
Adds 5-13 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
(2 to 4)% Life stolen per Hit
+(18 to 29)% Enhanced Defense
+(11 to 15) to Dexterity
Socketed (1)
Defense: (214 - 231) to (259 - 279)
Required Level: 21
Required Strength: 55
Item Level: 31
(71 to 90)% Bonus to Attack Rating
Adds 19-50 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
(8 to 10)% Life stolen per Hit
+(41 to 52)% Enhanced Defense
+(21 to 25) to Dexterity
Socketed (2)
Defense: (544 - 581) to (649 - 693)
Required Level: 38
Required Strength: 192
Item Level: 51
(111 to 130)% Bonus to Attack Rating
Adds 75-150 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
(14 to 16)% Life stolen per Hit
+(64 to 75)% Enhanced Defense
+(31 to 35) to Dexterity
Socketed (2)
Defense: (801 - 851) to (946 - 1006)
Required Level: 46
Required Strength: 384
Item Level: 77
(131 to 150)% Bonus to Attack Rating
Adds 100-250 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
(17 to 19)% Life stolen per Hit
+(75 to 86)% Enhanced Defense
+(36 to 40) to Dexterity
Socketed (2)

for the AR% which is VERY important for this build (all stats go to vit) and some flat poison dmg.

Oh, and to clarify, you can use any weapon in any slot as long as one of them is a sword. The sword can be in the offhand too.

Basically it counts as hitting both weapons at the same time ? Kinda confused actually. So basically anything with ctc something on melee attack is great for mobs, for bosses focus on -resistances and poison damage for direct hits.

Completely skipped the TU light belt, thanks for mentioning.

Johnny Impak wrote:Basically it counts as hitting both weapons at the same time ?

Yes, although both hits are treated as hitting with the main hand weapon. For example, Jared's fragmentor will never proc it's spike nova if put in the offhand, but can proc twice per hit if on the main hand.

Is "life/mana on attack" getting penalty on NM/Hell, just like Leech does?

Jitan, Come On wrote:Is "life/mana on attack" getting penalty on NM/Hell, just like Leech does?

Ofc not, you just need more values cuz difficulty is harder obv.

Johnny Impak wrote:So basically anything with ctc something on melee attack is great for mobs, for bosses focus on -resistances and poison damage for direct hits.

Completely skipped the TU light belt, thanks for mentioning.

Yes, you mainly scale with poison dmg to weapon, - res, +skills, and don't forget that poison spell dmg does affect windform's poison dmg, as it counts as a melee attack. Other sources of dmg are other poison dmg to weapon passives, like Amatoxin from astrogha's set,

Blacktongue

Blacktongue
Flamberge (Sacred)
One-Hand Damage: (101 - 119) to (110 - 130)
Two-Hand Damage: (165 - 195) to (169 - 200)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 300
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 44 Rotting Flesh on Melee Attack
+25% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Damage
+(40 to 60)% to Poison Spell Damage
-(20 to 35)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(14 to 20) to Amatoxin
Slow Target 15%
Maximum Poison Resist +(1 to 2)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (6)

, and

Amanita

Amanita
Helms
'VenAmn'
Runeword Level: 100
3% Chance to cast level 1 Time Wave on Melee Attack
+(200 to 300) to Attack Rating
-(21 to 25)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(2 to 5) to Amatoxin
(3 to 5)% Chance of Crushing Blow
Attacker Flees after Striking 20%
+(115 to 143)% Enhanced Defense
+(30 to 50) to Vitality
Poison Resist +25%

I didn't know poison spell damage affected Windform. I have a Blacktongue lyinh somewhere on a mule. Will try this out when I get some free time.

Johnny Impak wrote:I didn't know poison spell damage affected Windform. I have a Blacktongue lyinh somewhere on a mule. Will try this out when I get some free time.

I think it only affects the actual melee hit. So it shouldn't be useful for the spike nova proc, but it definitely works on windforms melee "swings"