Treewarden druid

RandomOnions wrote:
ChuckNoRis wrote:going from 120 to 121 is taking just a few minutes in SP fyi . why do you insist to go off topic again? i forgot to keep your posts hidden and stop replying . sorry .

Can you just stop posting, it's actually getting embarrassing. Just because a build works with all charms+trophies and xis runewords doesn't mean it's a build that is actually viable, or even remotely playable without those. Also this whole /player x argument is retarded beyond words because it's totally irrelevant. It takes hours to reach 121, unless you play SP you can start level 125, or even 225 if we really wanted to. Also the old pummel isn't even comparable to the new thornstrike. Old pummel was basically a normal attack, the new one is overpowered beyond words. Please stick to posting in off-topic or some SP dedicated subforum.

have you even used pummel in farm places? it stuns everything around you + procs on attack + spreads aoe in a very effective way, i don't know how people can say thorn strike has better aoe spread than pummel, very retarded. pummel aoe not only is bigger but flies in all directions. i played with pummel quite a bit so i know what i am talking about. YES pummel's damage is lower, that's why it's worse than thorn strike for bosses like i already said, but it's still actually better for farming. if i had to farm f.e dunc and i had both pummel and TS as my abiltiies i'd farm with pummel any day

literally a normal attack

void wrote:dont be silly, if you guys are really honest you know the killer is 0 frame next delay.
in case its not obvious here is the hit benefit you get from each nd step starting at 4 frames (which means in frames: hit, nd, nd, nd, nd, hit):

4 frames: x1
3 frames: x1.25
2 frames: x1.3
1 frames: x1.5
0 frames: x2 and extra

imagine now going straight from 4 frames nd to 0:
1*1.25*1.33*1.5*2=~5
which means you theorettically hit about 5x as many times per attack and it translates into 500%wdm compared with 4 frames nd that doesnt get this multiplicator,
however this is not the end of the story, since every (assuming 95% hit chance cap) hit is going to connect, you also get the benefit of the overlay of multiple missiles, as well as greatly increased proc rates.
and depending on the underlying mechanics of thorn field, it may well hit much more often, depending on how it creates its "hit boxes".

i hope now its clear now how next delay has increasing returns the lower it gets

the 0 nd mechanic is quite fun and i hope it can be kept with skill changes, but it makes a huge difference in how strong a skill is, much more than a flat dmg increase, as you can see here the amount of procs might even make up for a very low wdm

Nice explanations! I would also favor a low wdm version of current thorn strike compared to a high dmg version which hits only twice.

Aspirine101 wrote:have you even used pummel in farm places? it stuns everything around you + procs on attack + spreads aoe in a very effective way, i don't know how people can say thorn strike has better aoe spread than pummel, very retarded. pummel aoe not only is bigger but flies in all directions. i played with pummel quite a bit so i know what i am talking about. YES pummel's damage is lower, that's why it's worse than thorn strike for bosses like i already said, but it's still actually better for farming. if i had to farm f.e dunc and i had both pummel and TS as my abiltiies i'd farm with pummel any day

literally a normal attack

Have you even tried Thorn Strike in Duncraig?

Maybe it doesn't have 360° aoe that pummel did but it doesn't need it. It kills most mobs in one attack. The issue with stunned mobs is that they're still standing. Dead monkeys can't throw barrels.

RandomOnions wrote:
ChuckNoRis wrote:going from 120 to 121 is taking just a few minutes in SP fyi . why do you insist to go off topic again? i forgot to keep your posts hidden and stop replying . sorry .

Can you just stop posting, it's actually getting embarrassing. Just because a build works with all charms+trophies and xis runewords doesn't mean it's a build that is actually viable, or even remotely playable without those. Also this whole /player x argument is retarded beyond words because it's totally irrelevant. It takes hours to reach 121, unless you play SP you can start level 125, or even 225 if we really wanted to. Also the old pummel isn't even comparable to the new thornstrike. Old pummel was basically a normal attack, the new one is overpowered beyond words. Please stick to posting in off-topic or some SP dedicated subforum.

I play SP the same as I would MP - without using Players X, changing levels etc. The main reason is I can't be bothered with muling and I work away sometimes in places without internet. It's not true to suggest that everyone playing SP is using tools/cheats to avoid difficulty, just because they can.

Presumably SP exists for a reason, so if people want to play SP then that's their choice. In fact, I understand that SP is now the same as MP in terms of runes, charms, items, recipes - everything. And it can actually be purer than MP since there's no rushing (and in any case, setting players 8 is no different to playing in 8-player games on TSW). And there's no trading so I end up playing with only the items I find personally and moving through the game linearly on each character I make.

I don't read Chuck's mini-guides as being in any sense "not playable without all charms and rws". Each of Early, Mid and End game has items listed that read to me as aspirations (what he believes would be the best items for the build at the end of each stage). If you're in mid-game and you haven't managed to get a decent crafted belt then you stick with, say, Deadfall from the early game items. If you have a decent craft in end-game and you haven't found the SSSU in the end game list, you stick with the craft. That's normal and part of any guide or game-plan. Again, it's normal to state what "good" and "best" look like in any plan.

Also, the guides are coded to indicate viability - there's no suggestion in each case that they are even good. What it does is provide some feedback / critique as to how good/bad each possible build is.

I'm not sure why Chuck gets so much flak around these parts from some folks, the guy is only trying to provide a facility - which people are free to use or ignore as they see fit. And he gives up a lot of his time to do that, so although I'm sure he doesn't need me to defend him, it must be rather depressing at times so hopefully it helps to remember that there are some people who appreciate his efforts.

Fumbles wrote:
Aspirine101 wrote:have you even used pummel in farm places? it stuns everything around you + procs on attack + spreads aoe in a very effective way, i don't know how people can say thorn strike has better aoe spread than pummel, very retarded. pummel aoe not only is bigger but flies in all directions. i played with pummel quite a bit so i know what i am talking about. YES pummel's damage is lower, that's why it's worse than thorn strike for bosses like i already said, but it's still actually better for farming. if i had to farm f.e dunc and i had both pummel and TS as my abiltiies i'd farm with pummel any day

literally a normal attack

Have you even tried Thorn Strike in Duncraig?

Maybe it doesn't have 360° aoe that pummel did but it doesn't need it. It kills most mobs in one attack. The issue with stunned mobs is that they're still standing. Dead monkeys can't throw barrels.

no there's no issue with stunned mobs. stunned monkeys can't throw barrels either. so it takes 2 more hits to kill everytihng, woah big deal. i did play with TS in dunc btw, here is the problem, imagine old dunc layout where u go from first tiny room into that big room and go south a bit and then shitloads of mobs surround you, with ts u have to aim for the mobs behind, for the mobs in front, for the mobs to the sides etc, with pummel you just attack 1 mob and everything around you is stunned and dies.

i fail to see how stun + effective aoe does not compensate for lower damage when it comes to farming.

also what do u even wanna do if u hate TS with such a passion? reduce wdm by a bit - it will still be """op""". reduce wdm by a lot - it will not be viable. remove nd - not viable.

I'm trying to understand your point of view but its hard because I've done many runs in Duncraig and Thorn Strike works great. It doesn't matter what direction mobs are coming from because they die very fast. Are you sure you're playing the latest patch?

I'm more confused by this playstye and argument since it doesn't matter if the mobs near you are stunned. The ones that throw the barrels on the other side of the room don't get stunned. How are you gonna move out of the way if you're surrounded by stunned monsters instead of just killing them with higher dmg output and walking out of the way casually?

Not really sure where this thread is going. Anyone have a TW build to recommend? Otherwise it's just a thread on how overpowered Thorn Strike is. No one plays TW so just enjoy it I guess.

GregMXL wrote:No one plays TW so just enjoy it I guess.

Lots of people are starting to play it now, after seeing and hearing how a few people are 2-3 shotting most bosses with Thorn Strike. most of last few pages have just been arguments about how Pummel was better or worse, which is fairly irrelevant cause it was removed anyways.

Yea so that's my point. Just play the build and enjoy it like how the throw barb was op last ladder. I mean these guys are really doing the best they can. I know it first hand cause I'm lucky enough to see every change they make and all the work that's put in to this mod. It's not easy by a long shot. I'm in shock at the amount of complaining being done since this mod keeps getting better patch by patch. Now sp has everything mp has...like what more do people want?