Pls remove purify from this game

[La_minore]

The modders run out of decent ideas (long ago). Now putting poor designs into the game under the masks of modernization, progress, etc

Still acknowledging some positive changes though, like new UI, or new useful SUs.

[demonshalo]

Sup with the hate? While some of those are batshit painful as fuck to follow, others are pretty whacky and fun! If you want to try one I can recommend you a few

Did you forget how that challenge thing ended up ? Half people quit in the very begining, half in the terror difficulty. Only guy who was happy - the guy who got treewarden. Wonder why ?

On topic - i really enjoy purify for Vizjun and Duncraig. For other bosses it could be tuned down to 3-10 succesfull hits just to prove that you have skill/experience/strategy for it.

Unfortunately, I did not play that season so I didnt participate. However, the only thing that would bring me back to playing again this season if they kick start another one of these challenges. That would make the game at least fun and challenging for a change We all know how to make a cookie-cutter build work. Why not try something different and a little out outside of the norm? is that really so bad?

[ChuckNoRis]

Wonder why ?

because you got the challenge you have asked for . you took builds ment to be played on/players 8 (much faster xp/leveling and better drops) to a fucking/players 1 game . that's why . most of the builds ended up squishy in mid/late terror at around level 80 with crapy gear , while in SP you could get to level 90 since act 2 terror (access to uberskill and ennead challenge skill much faster) - you could actually miss the LC2 due to overleveling - , so all of this leaded to rants and ragequits .

this has been discussed at that time and was debated long enough . it was also proven that that the builds were actualy working fine if they were played as intented (/players 8) . i have streamed them short after this challenge (untwinked) to prove my point . and i did .

it ended up with a bunch of those MP players that took part of the challenge looking like idiots and insulting me for no reason

i like how you and a few more of those haters around here make me laugh almost every day . i'm starting to miss Fumbles , i used to get some hate from him every now and then too , but i haven't seen him in a while

[cowking]

The modders run out of decent ideas (long ago). Now putting poor designs into the game under the masks of modernization, progress, etc

What are those poor designs and what do they have to do with purify? The only thing visible to a reader outside your head is what seems to be salt generated by level lockout which is a common trend in this topic due to charm entitlement.

it's counter-intuitive with the investment of time and grind for items

neutralising every aspect of the end-game goal and grind of the design, to make it "balanced" is called bad design.

2. From a game design point of view, disabling / revoking weeks long progress that the player has engaged in is not a good idea for end-game content. It cheapens your progress and all your effort until that point. Which, sadly enough, is almost all of the late game.

Did you go through dunc naked? Did you go through yshari with blue items? Did you stroll through void with no gear? I'm also doubting you killed uldyssian's little helpers with garbage without making the fight massively more difficult for yourself. If so, well, I hope you enjoyed yourself.

Certain builds have great advantages using Purify, that should be addressed.

Certain builds have great farming speed and ease over ancient's hand barbs, that should be addressed. This is sarcasm.

2. Barbs and to an extent Paladins are far superior than other classes in covering most game content.

Yeah those LMB ele-conversion no-leech ancient's hand barbs are the best aoe farmers in the game and have been for a long time. Haven't played a deathgaze barb but I'm sure they're really rad as well.

Contrary to popular belief, charms are the 3-5% content of the game. Very important for a build of course, but they are by far the minority content and all you have to do is adapt enough to get them once or twice.

Basing your game balance opinions on which char can do every boss with least resistance is actually quite irrelevant.

why would anyone ever play a melee claw sin over a deathgaze barb at ANY point in the game?

For fun, for variance, for self-challenge, for proc-chain, to test if you can one shot the screen with aoe nova, for RMB melee? To use a different set of items/procs?

Purify just means that your damage output is being approximately set to a constant. Basically it's only proportional to your skill if you neglect "rng" (bosses moving around, teleporting away) which is the whole point of purify.

Let me try to clarify:

1. There is no skill to it. Skill comes in if you are doing HC, calling anything else skill is a joke.

This has been triggering me for days.

There's a reason there are people who can do valthek in 8 mins and a reason there are people who make threads like this. There's a reason there are people who can beat NL100 in poker (a game of 100% pure range) and a reason 99.999% who ever play poker, won't. There's a reason you can't beat laz, and it's not because purify is a broken mechanic.

What you're saying is equivalent to saying there is no skill in chess (where you opponent's every move can be as random as the game rules allow for instead of an incredibly simple and predictable ancient AI that you can even manipulate) and if you lose once, you're a joke and the game has no skill to it. Well shit, that just makes sense. I'm sure you'll make a great chess player.

Purify is just lazy as a mechanic that is an admission of the inability to balance things. Otherwise, why are so many bosses using that one mechanic?

You have it backwards, the fact that barb can do that so easily shows how little control the development team has over the balancing of characters and gameplay. Once purify is out the picture, suddenly you can see with extreme clarity why it was implemented in the first place. It is because of their lack of ability to balance things that they have to rely on purify. For Christ sake, TU6 guide anyone?...

It isn´t that purify is a good mechanic; it´s that without that mechanic the devs cannot balance things. So they rely on it to surface level "fix" whatever inherit problems exist with balancing. And even then, it fails because barb is still much better than amazon, pally or any other char (almost always) at doing all content with or without purify.

You don't want a balanced game. If you did, you'd be playing chess or whatever 100% pure PvP game where all unbalancing variables have been removed and interest stems only from player generated hyper-metagame understanding or competition with money. But it's either too hard or too boring.

A PvE game has to be by nature, unbalanced to remain fun. A perfectly balanced median xl would be the most yawn inducing pile of shit ever. The more unbalanced the game is, the more build variety you have, the more unique every build can become. The more ridiculously awesome your PvE build can get. In fact, just about every single attempt to balance the game has met backlash.

Was a sin that could clear dcows with one or two RMB clicks in sub-1 minute with a permanent proc-chain balanced in any way compared to poor stormblast barbs who had to go left clicking through the fucking level? No? But it was incredibly fun. Is the solution to make it so every character has equivalent single target and aoe capability and defense where end game bosses just melt and every character is great at everything (thus end up feeling exactly the same), or to make everything completely stale by nerfing everything to the ground so no-one has any fun ever?

Purify is actually a rather brilliant game design mechanic to fix that problem considering the game engine we're talking about. When builds get ridiculously OP and varied in their single target/aoe dps and defensive stats, how to still maintain universal hard boss fights with limited AI in end game? By making it a fight of skill and adaptation with your own gearing, rather than dps. Valthek even removes defensive stats, and it's basically the best fight in the game. Purify, the broken mechanic.

There's a reason too why you're playing median xl instead of vanilla, and why you're not going back to vanilla other than for temporal variance.

and what strategy is involved when the strategy becomes to respec and tank up as hard as possible while spamming this 5sec cd off cooldown hoping it hits through avoid percentages and remains accurate?

If there was no strategy involved, this thread would not exist.

Zorun Tzin is a good way to use purify, and retains purpose of game concepts.

... a boss that is heavily unbalanced and weighted towards single target dps and ability to tank, and then you complain about barbs having these traits as unbalance. Again, what you want is not balance, but unbalance.

Would this thread exist and would you be making these arguments if purify was a defensive shield that set all characters' hp, defense, block, avoid etc... to same figure and maintained character's own dps, with no lockout timer. I wonder.

[Anonymous:]

this has been discussed at that time and was debated long enough . it was also proven that that the builds were actualy working fine if they were played as intented (/players 8) . i have streamed them short after this challenge (untwinked) to prove my point . and i did .

it ended up with a bunch of those MP players that took part of the challenge looking like idiots and insulting me for no reason

i like how you and a few more of those haters around here make me laugh almost every day . i'm starting to miss Fumbles , i used to get some hate from him every now and then too , but i haven't seen him in a while

Are you talking about that 4 hour dunc run?

[xxdiablo2]

This has to be the worst forum I ever seen in my life. Vetarans jumping everybody that want to say something. I agree 100% with OP it is a shame that you grind and grind, to get the items you want, and then in the end game it has no use. Unreal.

[Tkorpi]

This has to be the worst forum I ever seen in my life. Vetarans jumping everybody that want to say something. I agree 100% with OP it is a shame that you grind and grind, to get the items you want, and then in the end game it has no use. Unreal.

well i am sure developers would listen if you have better option for getting challenge in to the game bosses. Even if they removed purify from the game then what? monsters with so much hp that you need 8 ppl party to kill it? monsters with invulnerable mechanism? bosses with 1 shot abilities?

I agree some bosses like uldy need tweaking as he is just boring to kill but lets take laz for example. you need to practice & know how. to kill him. You cannot just buy full items and go 1 shot him like every other normal mob in the game isnt that something unique?

[HechtHeftig]

I don't get how a 100% random hit on a boss with lots of avoid can be compared to chess. To say it with Jules Winnfield's words: Ain't the same fucking ballpark, it ain't the same league, ain't even the same fucking sport.

It requires completely different types of skill. Chess needs lots of planning and predicting, whereas MXL in general needs skills at precise, fast clicking and keeping track of everything that's going on on the screen.

So yeah cowking I agree that you need skills in MXL. It's just that your comparison is lacking a lot and it's really unfair to shove that into demonshalo's mouth. That's all I wanted to say.

[Pub]

This has to be the worst forum I ever seen in my life. Vetarans jumping everybody that want to say something. I agree 100% with OP it is a shame that you grind and grind, to get the items you want, and then in the end game it has no use. Unreal.

No one is jumping people for having a different opinion. Im on the fency with purify because its not the mechanic thats whonky but some boring fight like void and uldy that drags on forever - where the rest of the fight is extremely manipulative making it easier and a time sink.

Laz takes a couple of hours to prep some ghetto ass gear - an endgame uber you can prepare for in a matter of hours by using same "useless endgame gear" to farm for. Now we have a fight where for the most part, it brings balance because now you cant mindlessly spam one ability to defeat. Its a huge skill check and i get being good at the game is very daunting for scrubs but seriously - go play Diablo 3 if you just want the same set of gear to be used everywhere.

But if you say stupid shit like "purify bullsht plz remove fuk endgame gear xant be usd omg endgame gear useless"... and genuinely wonder why people are attacking you - well to keep it short, its because you provide NO VALUABLE FEEDBACK WHAT SO EVER.

How about Quov tsin? Where is the balance at him? Summoners dont even stand a chance and require a full respec and a new set of gear! Why is this being ignored! Even soul of kabraxis HEAVILY punishes summoners! Oh wait, the elemental stones require a specific element of attack to accomplish, guess some builds are fucked again. Whats your excuse at that point for changing those ubers if we remove all purify ubers there?

But wait, lets imagine the retarded reality that purify ubers were removed and i grind and grind and have endgame gear...

Cool, no purify ubers - i have endgame gear and now my gear is still useless? So because of a small amount of purify ubers, suddenly thats the only endgame as opposed to a part of it? Stop spewing horseshit black and white comments. 20ish charms didnt randomly appear in my inventory for no reason.

[SeaWeed]

[...] 100% random hit [...]

???

No.
The different skillsets don't matter and are not of relevance for the analogy cowking is trying to make. As he stated, there is enough evidence to the fact that killing times in purify fights are proportional to skill.
If we consider a purify fight as it's own game, it certainly has rules to give the player limitations i.e. setting your damage output to a constant (rng can be neglected considering lucky shots and boss dodging are the same for every player and should even out over time to a constant). The only variables now left are defensive stats (Yshari even cuts that one mostly out) and how to deal with the actions and limitations of the boss itself.
Same with chess.
It's up to the player on how to give an optimal response to the enemy, but all in the limitations of gamerules.


However, I agree that some characters have an easier time in certain ubers just because of their skills, but I don't care about different vitality scalings and frames of characters etc.. Also, I agree that some mechanics (for example Uldy's blastwave) serve no purpose what so ever. I'm sure that the devs (as Marco already stated in this thread) are fully aware of these issues.