Primarch wrote:I’ve played a barb to 135 and a a zon to 140. I’ve tested mid and endgame gear and there’s an objective winner. Bowazon competes for clear speed in Dunc and a few other farming zones but iron spiral is even more powerful and won’t get instagibbed in Fauzt. Single target, Amazons have nothing that comes close to stormblast/Ancient’s hand.
Again, I won't deny things such as barb not being a strong class or the best. I've not been very involved in the major rebalance that was done to the class, so I don't have a personal bias, and I've mostly been critical of it whenever things seemed off. I'm only debating the intention of the current balance and some questionable evidence provided to make certain claims.
The reason for explaining the samael video is because multiple things apply to the entire content and balance to the class, on all levels. This is not a minor thing. Some of the bugs/oversights I mention include Lion stance damage bonus, free boss-ITD on gloves, cheap broken items like Candlelwake. These last two greatly reward str specs, hence why xbow is so broken too, and why amazons which are dex based can suffer stacking high amounts of damage when compared. And let's also not forget Stormblast which was bugged for a considerable time. Each missile was lasting for over 6 minutes instead of a couple frames.
All this said, it doesn't come off as a surprise that barb could advance through the game at a much faster pace, and snowball really hard into the endgame/economy. Any class feedback is welcomed in respective topic, it just doesn't always need to be prefaced and compared with broken barb, and further backed up with ladder stats.
HechtHeftig wrote:Honestly, I doubt it‘s just about this video. Barb has been OP for multiple patches and if you just look at the statistics on tsw, more and more people play barb each season. According to your own argument that‘s a proportional measurement for class viability. And when 24% of all played classes are barbs, that‘s ridiculous.
As for Amazon: most of them are stormzons and bloodzons if you look at tsw statistics again.
I didn't make that argument, in fact I clearly did the opposite one. Ladder statistics are majorly anecdotal especially in this season where pretty much the guide center was reset. All it takes is a little bit of understanding and attention to see how the guides, who did them, and when, dictated most of the ladder results. You see the same reflection in the TG center, you can use the new PC feature to see raises in specific items after a major guide was out and compare the dates.
I won't deny the possibility of certain degree of accuracy when it comes to ladder stats. After all, more viable builds are more likely to get popular guides and people like following the trends. I'm only pointing out that it does a poor representation of proportions when it comes to builds, because guides exist. I can provide multiple examples of builds I've seen work or played myself which have zero representation. This includes builds such as Mana Sorc, Wolf Druid, Tree Druid, all which are less than 16%. It just becomes more obvious if you see 66% melee vs 12% mana sorc, and make your guess which one has a guide.
Guides promoting builds also mean a lot more playtime is put in them and more things and combinations are discovered and discussed. A lot of the underrepresented builds could use some time until they pop, and some certainly need to be improved, there's no question about that. If you check assassins there is a very low amount and it's not a surprise considering it went guide-less for a month. She needs hp buffs, but it's not nearly as bad as some people often put her. Against an ideally-balanced barb, assassin should have a much rougher start but a payoff in the late endgame quests. She does a great job as far as the 125-130 quests go. My other main this season was druid, the second least played class. At least for wolf & tree, which are at a lousy 15%, I can vouch for them being good and having a place in endgame farming.
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