Barbs are objectively the best class

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Primarch
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So, it seems as though barbs are the most robust/versatile class with virtually zero limitations. They have a build for every possible occasion and often dont even need to respec (I.e. fortress spam).

As an Amazon loyalist, I can’t help but notice the bleak disparity between my own character’s capabilities in endgame gear and the capabilities of a Barb with mid-game crafted/TU gear. I need to respec practically every time I do a new UBER and then I’m forced into playing a glass cannon. The only “tank build” (Spearzon) is incredibly weak and can’t solo any moderately difficult Ubers. Hammerzons are cool and fun but they’re inefficient and can’t handle Uber’s nearly as fast as even the weakest barb builds.

I know it sounds like I’m bitching but I feel it does take away from the enjoyment I get out of a very fun mod.

Is there any plan to address this inequity?
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Crosby4HyG
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Well said, I couldn’t agree more. Class imbalance seems to be be main factor that’s holding back an otterwise fantastic mod.

People will say that most builds are viable which is true. I think the problem is that many builds are only viable with extremely specific gear options, which limits the fun of being versatile and creative. Wolf Druid is a good example of this currently.
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Pinball
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Barb is best class for years but he never get a good nerf while other classes has some good builds only lasts for one ladder (Treewarden is best example). I've laughed hard when people say Sin is best class for uber and then there is a video about Stormblast Barb killing boss in SECONDS.

I can only see they will nerf Traprat and Xbownec next ladder for some serious reasons.
Crosby4HyG wrote:People will say that most builds are viable which is true.


Ofcourse. Sorc kills Samael in 15 mins and Barb does in 15 seconds.

Viable but who tf play viable builds when you can make a Barb. The TSW chart already shows this. How many Sin, how many Zon... and how many Barb.
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Primarch
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One needs to look no further than the skill tree differences. Barbs can utilize like 20 unique and powerful Passives that make them demigods with 30k hp and massive damage while amazons get useless fire elementals, FHR, and run speed.

This also makes virtually all WDM OSKILL builds better on barbs.

Most classes get physical damage reduction from skill passives but amazons are forced to come up with 50% from items and have zero dodge chance, even though amazon class lore would indicate they should. I feel as though the design philosophy aimed more at making amazons a jack of all trades, master at none where other classes excel at certain things (primarily barbs).

It would be nice to see some degree of parity/balance here.

Hell, I’d be satisfied with Fire elementals (random and unnecessary skill) being replaced with a dodge/deadly strike passive or something along those lines. This would make a lot more sense from both a balance and lore standpoint than the comical Fire elementals skill randomly placed there (was that meant for the sorceress or something?)
Edited by Primarch 5 years.
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dongflexer
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Primarch wrote: Is there any plan to address this inequity?


This entire subject has snowballed into one huge echo chamber and it's honestly getting really stupid. YES barb is busted, YES 15 sec Samael kills is bullshit, nobody is pretending otherwise. OBVIOUSLY this will be changed next patch. How dumb do you think the developers are to be able to ignore the current state of Barbarians? There is no outrage, there is no conspiracy. Devs are not omniscient, things happen, games get broken. that's the point of an active development team. What is the point anymore of threads like this other than to get cookies?

The worse part, in my opinion, is that there are a lot of very viable builds in the game other than barbs. Samael is SUPPOSED to take 15 minutes with max gear. Melee Sorc, Bloodzon, HMP, Traprat, throwsin, xbow nec, etc. these are all viable builds with their own niches. It just so happens that Barb is better in most situations. However, in a game with no PVP and where other players' class choice, build, and behavior affect you in NO WAY AT ALL, I don't see how in the world a busted class would "take away from the enjoyment" of the mod. If you're that bent out of shape, just don't play Barb. It's a free mod. It's not like Barb is the only character who can clear endgame content. Enjoy the pure fuckery of barb while it's here, because we'll all miss it when its gone.

I feel like this is a recurring theme in end-season. The forums really turn to shit. Half of the new posts are "ladder reset when", and the other half are people complaining about the exploits players found during the ladder. I guess it's just a natural part of median's lifecycle.
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Primarch
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dongflexer wrote:
Primarch wrote: Is there any plan to address this inequity?


This entire subject has snowballed into one huge echo chamber and it's honestly getting really stupid. YES barb is busted, YES 15 sec Samael kills is bullshit, nobody is pretending otherwise. OBVIOUSLY this will be changed next patch. How dumb do you think the developers are to be able to ignore the current state of Barbarians? There is no outrage, there is no conspiracy. Devs are not omniscient, things happen, games get broken. that's the point of an active development team. What is the point anymore of threads like this other than to get cookies?

The worse part, in my opinion, is that there are a lot of very viable builds in the game other than barbs. Samael is SUPPOSED to take 15 minutes with max gear. Melee Sorc, Bloodzon, HMP, Traprat, throwsin, xbow nec, etc. these are all viable builds with their own niches. It just so happens that Barb is better in most situations. However, in a game with no PVP and where other players' class choice, build, and behavior affect you in NO WAY AT ALL, I don't see how in the world a busted class would "take away from the enjoyment" of the mod. If you're that bent out of shape, just don't play Barb. It's a free mod. It's not like Barb is the only character who can clear endgame content. Enjoy the pure fuckery of barb while it's here, because we'll all miss it when its gone.

I feel like this is a recurring theme in end-season. The forums really turn to shit. Half of the new posts are "ladder reset when", and the other half are people complaining about the exploits players found during the ladder. I guess it's just a natural part of median's lifecycle.


When you’re done playing teacher’s pet and relegating a grand total of 3 comments to “echo-chamber” status, maybe you can acknowledge the fact that the barb imbalance has been recurring for several seasons (which Pinball just mentioned if you actually read said comments).
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Pinball
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dongflexer wrote:The forums really turn to shit. Half of the new posts are "ladder reset when"...


What do you expect? It happens when a member of dev team said in lobby that the ladder will reset in April. So many people had seen that and ofc they dont have motivation to play anymore when the ladder will be reset in few weeks.
tranvanhieu
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Ok, so a build that can kill the end-game boss in the shortest time is the most op char? I don't think so.

The only reason people bitching about: Barb has the most effective way to build weapon damage (Lion Stance), and the best Lighning conversion damage, multihit (StormBlast), combine with Lighning Pierce >> bosses down

Others things about Barb is not OP at all, IMO (well may be except thunder slam)

Maybe we should remove/ nerf heavily any damage-conversion skills in the game?
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Marco
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Pinball wrote:Barb is best class for years but he never get a good nerf while other classes has some good builds only lasts for one ladder (Treewarden is best example). I've laughed hard when people say Sin is best class for uber and then there is a video about Stormblast Barb killing boss in SECONDS.

I can only see they will nerf Traprat and Xbownec next ladder for some serious reasons.
Crosby4HyG wrote:People will say that most builds are viable which is true.


Ofcourse. Sorc kills Samael in 15 mins and Barb does in 15 seconds.


It's really tilting how you've been bitching about 15s samael kill for weeks now, trying to push the narrative that we keep barb on top "for the lulz" and proceed to nerf all other classes instead. Either you're trolling or you're astronomically stupid.

That run had a lot of factors going for it:
- Snapshotted level 120 nephalem spirit providing ridiculous tri-ele damage
- New SU oversights such as off-handing wizardspike (free 70% pierce)
- Bugged Lion Stance damage
- Bugged GDR/EDR mechanisms
- Bugged defense pierce (TU light gauntlets)
- Other item oversights (i.e. Candlewake and other ridiculous EWD stacking)
- Extremely expensive full BiS setup
- Stacked +1 skill jewels and stacked UMOs

But the most important of all, all these factors combined made it even viable to completely ignore any defensive stats, and push for an even faster and ridiculous 15s kill with a glass cannon.

I'm not gonna sit and debate whether barb is good or even the best, but all these 15s samael kill comments with no context are just dumb, and apparently a lot of people like to subscribe to them. Most of these people have CLEARLY not beaten samael with barb, probably didn't even play barb at all this season. But yeah go on and keep comparing stuff to this samael run.
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DacianDraco
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There will always be a best class, you can't have them do stuff the same way, there would be no point in having 7 classes. And in the current state arguments should be made to better your preferred class, imo just nerfing barb won't change anything, well would probably make some ppl stop playing but it definitely won't make the other classes better for the ones playing them now or more appealing to current barb players.

Also it's subjective what is best, better, etc and i feel time is not a good measure, because some ppl feel accomplished by a reward after doing something for longer and bored by it being fast, also the otherway around for other ppl. And i don't know what a good measure is, i feel like playstyle or skill is not it, some ppl like walking around and buffing often, some like summons doing the work for them, some like highly mobile and frail but fast dealing dmg, some like tanky and slow with right click holding for long periods, some like skill switching like crazy, some like it in moderation, some just don't, etc. I for one need this diversity just so i don't get bored, and i feel everyone definitely needs to stop being influenced by what other ppl do and use that as argument of why i am not having fun.

So we need to think what would be more fun for other classes, what skills need to be tweaked or maybe some new reward skills in some new challenges that can compliment a build with defense/damage/speed/whatever or maybe what subpar items could be bettered, maybe even ideas for some SSU or SSSU where there is still room. I would like to be the eternal architect of everything and do it perfectly always but i don't know it all and have not even tried it all (also i just want to play), and i'm sure even the devs don't know it all and can't think of it all at the same time to always make the best decision, but if you make good suggestions they may consider it, think what is fun (not 15sec fun) and what makes sense in the bigger picture.