Javazon compared to Throwsin?

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Kogler1990
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How bad/good is Java compared to Throwsin?
riskfactor
Dark Huntress
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My first char for Sigma 1.0 was a javazon, got her to 120 but wasn't really able to do any (maybe 1 or 2) of the 120 ubers. Quite tanky (with Paragon and moonbeam), but the killspeed was pretty poor. In many places, killspeed is a dominant factor in your survivability, tankiness is not enough. I used enfilade is the main skill, but it's not that much larger than single target. With the 1.1 update, it may work better on bosses, but it's still a poor AOE skill. I wasn't impressed with the other skills for either AOE or single target either.

I also just started a throwsin based on maelstrom. Currently 115. Kill speed is much better, since Maelstrom is a decent AOE skill, though still not great single target. However, assassins are almost unbearable squishy at times without any life-boosting passive - even with great walk speed from beacon. My other worry is the scaling of Maelstrom, which seems to only be boostable by DEX. I compare it to the Shuriken Flurry assassin build, which plays similarly and with similar kill speed, but can also be boosted with phys/magic spell damage gear.

Summary: Javazon is much safer, but also much slower. Pick your poison. In my opinion, both are much slower and generally less safe than melee sorc.
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aerial
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Maelstorm got buffed a lot, and it will be stronger, I think pretty much at every stage.
Only place where java could shine is endgame with specific proc su, like danmaku.

As for tankiness, endgame sin definitely wins there, 70% dodge, 75% block, all flat damage reduction (and % from shadow refugee). It is one of the tankiest characters in the game, if not the tankiest overall. You just need to get enough stats to reach it, doesn't get to its final state as fast as some builds that rely on defense.
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Primarch
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MM is the only competitive build after 125. Hammerzons are great for Kabraxis / Dunc / Vizjun, ”okay” for Fauzt (absent necrobots), but their damage (and especially their mobility) just can’t compete in higher tiers. Javazons are outclassed in both survivability and damage. Bowazons are extreme glass cannons and still can’t out-DPS bow druids/necros. Spearzons are still a meme.

Short and sweet, if you want to play an amazon, go magic missiles or you can enjoy farming 120-125 content (but much slower than melee Sorceresses/melee necros) as a hammerzon.
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matdoo
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How about Zon with
Heartseeker
? Especially after it got fixed.
Seems zon has more dmg passives than sin, but not sure how it will goes.
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Crash
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caster stormzon can work fine as well post 115 and picking up crafts from shrines in k3k.
Kogler1990
Jungle Hunter
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Crash wrote:caster stormzon can work fine as well post 115 and picking up crafts from shrines in k3k.

how do u scale caster stormcall?
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thunderman
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Primarch wrote:MM is the only competitive build after 125. Hammerzons are great for Kabraxis / Dunc / Vizjun, ”okay” for Fauzt (absent necrobots), but their damage (and especially their mobility) just can’t compete in higher tiers. Javazons are outclassed in both survivability and damage. Bowazons are extreme glass cannons and still can’t out-DPS bow druids/necros. Spearzons are still a meme.

Short and sweet, if you want to play an amazon, go magic missiles or you can enjoy farming 120-125 content (but much slower than melee Sorceresses/melee necros) as a hammerzon.


EDIT: updated

Image
Edited by thunderman 4 years.
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Crash
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Kogler1990 wrote:
Crash wrote:caster stormzon can work fine as well post 115 and picking up crafts from shrines in k3k.

how do u scale caster stormcall?


a lot of 4% lightning, 15 energy factor, 2% energy zod-crafted jewels and su/ssu's with a craft here or there.

I was at about 17k on storm call and 6k on stormfront damage (hits 13x per bolt with 3 bolts)
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Primarch
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thunderman wrote:
Primarch wrote:MM is the only competitive build after 125. Hammerzons are great for Kabraxis / Dunc / Vizjun, ”okay” for Fauzt (absent necrobots), but their damage (and especially their mobility) just can’t compete in higher tiers. Javazons are outclassed in both survivability and damage. Bowazons are extreme glass cannons and still can’t out-DPS bow druids/necros. Spearzons are still a meme.

Short and sweet, if you want to play an amazon, go magic missiles or you can enjoy farming 120-125 content (but much slower than melee Sorceresses/melee necros) as a hammerzon.


EDIT: updated

Image


With absolute top of the line gear, full trophied charms, and a 630 damage ethereal modded out battlemaiden you can reach that number, sure, but the functionality of HOZ zons in higher DLAB zones (9+) and other higher-end Ubers just isn’t there. By all means, tell me I’m wrong, but if you’re being honest with yourself, you’ll admit that the hammer playstyle is clunky and can’t nearly compete with the clear speed of MM or other competitive endgame non-Zon builds. If I had that battlemaiden of yours, I’d have been at around 65kish damage as well and I sincerely doubt that would have made a significant difference, seeing as mobility is an even bigger problem than damage.

If hammers weren’t affected by barriers (walls), my opinion might change but, with their limited functionality and literal inability to chase after moving targets in an extremely fast-paced and dynamic MXL environment, they just don’t have the same capabilities as targeted builds. Imagine trying to chase down Samael or any other mobile Ubers that can’t simply be cornered awkwardly in a barrier-hindered 1/3 radius hammer spam

Hell, go build an MM Zon with even mildly comparable gear and go clear Fauzt. See how much faster you rip through everything. Even in an open space environment where HOZ excels, you’ll notice an extreme difference.

High survivability in the middle of packs (I.e. Vizjun and Fauzt) through lifesteal and decent clear speed in Vizjun/Duncraig but that’s about the extent of their effectiveness.

If thundercrack had some parity with storm last, HOZ zons might actually be able to compete in those higher echelons, give or take a few survivability problems due to a complete lack of avoid/substantial health pool (even with Paragon).
Edited by Primarch 4 years.