Windform & Proc Interactions - HELP

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Semigloss
Vampiress
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I've been wanting to make a Windform Barb for quite some time, and what's always stopped me is the interaction with procs, which are pretty much a necessity to spread the added poison damage (I know there are other skills that can spread poison, but I'm not interested in those :D except MAYBE fortress).

I'm hoping I can get some clarification or help regarding this.

Based on the reading I've done, I know that Windform will prevent on-death/kill procs if they trigger while you are in the Windform animation.
1. Is this also the case for on-striking procs? Because surely life on striking works, and that feels like a similar mechanic.
2. Can anyone confirm if this also applies to when-struck procs? If not, I see huge potential with
Razorspine
Razorspine
Hard Leather Armor (Sacred)

Defense: (3714 - 4372) to (3961 - 4663)
Required Strength: 486
Required Level: 100
Indestructible
20% Chance to cast level 7 Spike Nova when Struck
+(58 to 86)% Enhanced Defense
+(41 to 50) to Strength
+(100 to 150) Life Regenerated per Second
Physical Resist 15%
Socketed (6)
(anyone tested?).
3. In general, should we be considering this a bug? I feel like Windform has so much potential but is nearly useless without procs. Does anyone have reason to believe this will be addressed in the near future?

Other related questions about WDM poison. I read the documentation on poison, and it's weird the way damage and durations add up from different items... I think I "somewhat" understand it.
4. Is Windform + Snake Stance generally better than just Windform? The problem I would see with using both is the shorter SS duration. But then does Windform alone have endgame damage potential?
5. All other forms of added poison damage seem miniscule compared to Windform and SS damage. I think what you would want to focus on is just extending duration, correct? I'm curious if anyone has any item suggestions for Windform Barb to boost poison time? Ideally something with poison damage added over 5 or 10 seconds. UPDATE: while looking for an example item to link with a long poison duration, I noticed that in this patch the few items that previously had 5, 10, and 20 second poison durations have been dropped back down to 1 or 2 seconds... what gives!?
6. Final question... bonus to poison skill duration. Does this effect Windform and SS?

Thank you for any assistance. I know it's probably a shot in the dark, but I really want to see this build become a reality.
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suchbalance
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In Sigma we only have two sources of spin to win: Windform on the barb skill tree and Whirlwind on the Hammer of Jholm unique. Due to our engine enhancements we enabled most procs for these skills. So, all "on attack"/"on striking"/"on kill" procs work with these skills. This in turn extends to those mystic orbs which are also worded as "on attack" & "on striking".

A rule of thumb for you and others wondering about what procs work with certain abilities: just read the second line of the skill tooltip (class skills mostly for now). If, for example, the line is of the form "attack - ..." this means it will work with "on attack", or if it is of the form "projectile - ..." it will work with "on striking" but not with "on attack". For reasons unknown to me most people have not yet realised that these tags aren't random, but are there to communicate mechanics.

Now for the other questions:
- "on struck" doesn't work while spinning
- poison damage from Windform & Snake Stance stacks (the dps is added, duration is averaged by taking the mean)
- SS + Windform (maxed) already provide really good base poison damage, if you want to enhance the base you could use an item with the Amatoxin oSkill. Then you want to focus on multiplying it as much as possible: skill levels are important once the synergy is maxed (e.g. Viper Mandate), poison pierce is great obviously. Finally, let's not forget that since the skill is now an "attack" (2nd line of tooltip) => it delivers a melee hit => poison spell damage will work as a multiplier
- the "poison skill duration" applies for spells only
Semigloss
Vampiress
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Thank you for the clarification. I do understand the tags (and I'm glad to have them!), but my understanding was that the Windform animation negated most of the procs. Good to know that isn't the case anymore.

Because added poison damage averages the duration, I basically need to ensure I have no sources of added poison because all the durations are 1 or 2 seconds right? I'll have to check amatoxin, not sure what the duration is there.
tranvanhieu
Cog
247 | -1
Windform Barbarian is ok for the normal game. He is pretty slow in the mid-game. Farming level around ~120 is painful, the clearing speed isn't there.
Which uber gears that have godly procs, I guess he can do well.
Semigloss
Vampiress
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Does anyone have recommendations for a weapon setup to spread poison? Currently leveling with
Jared's Fragmentor
Jared's Fragmentor
Claymore (4)

One-Hand Damage: (8 - 9) to (13 - 17)
Two-Hand Damage: (12 - 14) to (18 - 22)
Required Strength: 41
Required Level: 2
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
5% Chance to cast level 4 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(41 to 60)% Enhanced Damage
+(4 to 6) to Maximum Damage
(2 to 3)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(21 to 30) Life on Attack
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (20 - 22) to (30 - 36)
Two-Hand Damage: (30 - 34) to (40 - 48)
Required Strength: 69
Required Level: 21
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
10% Chance to cast level 8 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(71 to 90)% Enhanced Damage
+(8 to 12) to Maximum Damage
(4 to 6)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(46 to 60) Life on Attack
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (36 - 39) to (58 - 70)
Two-Hand Damage: (58 - 63) to (80 - 94)
Required Strength: 142
Required Level: 39
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 12 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(101 to 120)% Enhanced Damage
+(16 to 24) to Maximum Damage
(7 to 9)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(71 to 90) Life on Attack
Socketed (4)
One-Hand Damage: (48 - 52) to (89 - 110)
Two-Hand Damage: (83 - 90) to (117 - 140)
Required Strength: 283
Required Level: 50
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
20% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(131 to 150)% Enhanced Damage
+(32 to 48) to Maximum Damage
(10 to 12)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(91 to 120) Life on Attack
Socketed (4)
and it's working okay. I'm not sure how I feel about dual welding though because Windform appears to alternate weapons (even if one isn't a sword)... so your proc chance on attack is halved. Thoughts?
RealPandemonium
Prowler
16 | 0
Semigloss wrote:Does anyone have recommendations for a weapon setup to spread poison? Currently leveling with
Jared's Fragmentor
Jared's Fragmentor
Claymore (4)

One-Hand Damage: (8 - 9) to (13 - 17)
Two-Hand Damage: (12 - 14) to (18 - 22)
Required Strength: 41
Required Level: 2
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
5% Chance to cast level 4 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(41 to 60)% Enhanced Damage
+(4 to 6) to Maximum Damage
(2 to 3)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(21 to 30) Life on Attack
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (20 - 22) to (30 - 36)
Two-Hand Damage: (30 - 34) to (40 - 48)
Required Strength: 69
Required Level: 21
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
10% Chance to cast level 8 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(71 to 90)% Enhanced Damage
+(8 to 12) to Maximum Damage
(4 to 6)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(46 to 60) Life on Attack
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (36 - 39) to (58 - 70)
Two-Hand Damage: (58 - 63) to (80 - 94)
Required Strength: 142
Required Level: 39
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 12 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(101 to 120)% Enhanced Damage
+(16 to 24) to Maximum Damage
(7 to 9)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(71 to 90) Life on Attack
Socketed (4)
One-Hand Damage: (48 - 52) to (89 - 110)
Two-Hand Damage: (83 - 90) to (117 - 140)
Required Strength: 283
Required Level: 50
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
20% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(131 to 150)% Enhanced Damage
+(32 to 48) to Maximum Damage
(10 to 12)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(91 to 120) Life on Attack
Socketed (4)
and it's working okay. I'm not sure how I feel about dual welding though because Windform appears to alternate weapons (even if one isn't a sword)... so your proc chance on attack is halved. Thoughts?

What's in your offhand?
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Nahuatl
Cultist
21 | 0
Semigloss wrote:Does anyone have recommendations for a weapon setup to spread poison? Currently leveling with
Jared's Fragmentor
Jared's Fragmentor
Claymore (4)

One-Hand Damage: (8 - 9) to (13 - 17)
Two-Hand Damage: (12 - 14) to (18 - 22)
Required Strength: 41
Required Level: 2
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
5% Chance to cast level 4 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(41 to 60)% Enhanced Damage
+(4 to 6) to Maximum Damage
(2 to 3)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(21 to 30) Life on Attack
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (20 - 22) to (30 - 36)
Two-Hand Damage: (30 - 34) to (40 - 48)
Required Strength: 69
Required Level: 21
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
10% Chance to cast level 8 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(71 to 90)% Enhanced Damage
+(8 to 12) to Maximum Damage
(4 to 6)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(46 to 60) Life on Attack
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (36 - 39) to (58 - 70)
Two-Hand Damage: (58 - 63) to (80 - 94)
Required Strength: 142
Required Level: 39
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 12 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(101 to 120)% Enhanced Damage
+(16 to 24) to Maximum Damage
(7 to 9)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(71 to 90) Life on Attack
Socketed (4)
One-Hand Damage: (48 - 52) to (89 - 110)
Two-Hand Damage: (83 - 90) to (117 - 140)
Required Strength: 283
Required Level: 50
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.26 per Strength)%
20% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(131 to 150)% Enhanced Damage
+(32 to 48) to Maximum Damage
(10 to 12)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(91 to 120) Life on Attack
Socketed (4)
and it's working okay. I'm not sure how I feel about dual welding though because Windform appears to alternate weapons (even if one isn't a sword)... so your proc chance on attack is halved. Thoughts?

TU Breastplate, Earth Rouser rings, TU heavy belt should all be options. If you’re using a slow sword (like TU claymore) you need to use shorter spins. Whirlwind equivalents work a bit weird. You get two free 4 frame attacks regardless of weapon speed at the start, so if you do short spins you can maximize the number of times you hit. It may not be a useful proc, but it will dramatically increase your hit rate (and by extension proc rate).

Also, make sure your AR is giving you a high chance to hit. If you’re under 85% or so it’ll feel super clunky and inconsistent.
RealPandemonium
Prowler
16 | 0
Image

By reaching the 4fpa breakpoint and dual wielding, you can get an effective 2fpa attack rate (though it will be split between two targets if more than one is available.) This is, IMO, preferable to pulsing the animation for a few frames at a time because you 1) get more attacks per second and 2) are free to WW as you please without having to worry about gimmicks.

All two-handed swords types besides the last two have WSM of 5. Because two-handed swords use the one-handed breakpoints, you need to have your WIAS - WSM >= 34 to get the 4fpa breakpoint. That's 39%, achievable with 3 Sha runes or some combination of Shas and IAS jewels.

TU kriegsmesser gives better damage than claymore while also having spike nova procs (though at half the rate) but also giving +skills, life, and TCD. It also requires only 29% weapon IAS to reach the 4fpa breakpoint vs the claymore's 39%.

Also keep in mind that Spike Nova's poison is going to do quite a bit less damage than the hits delivered directly by Windform, due to its lower WDM (it will help to butter up big crowds, though.) If you don't care about the spike novas, TU great sword gives even more direct phys damage while also giving some defense, bonus AR, an even higher +skills bonus for better poison damage, and only requires 9% WIAS to reach the 4fpa breakpoint (although it's WSM is 15 rather than 5, it has 40% IAS baked in.)
Semigloss
Vampiress
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Thank you this is all great information. Currently using T4 claymore and it procs pretty damn often. I've noticed multiple procs from a single whirlwind too, as if each hit counts as a melee attack? But not that frequent. I think I can afford to half my proc rate and go for the added bonuses of the
Bul Kathos' Teaching
Bul Kathos' Teaching
Kriegsmesser (4)

One-Hand Damage: (14 - 16) to (18 - 21)
Required Strength: 96
Required Level: 13
(Barbarian Only)
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.22 per Strength)%
2% Chance to cast level 4 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
+(24 to 40)% Enhanced Damage
+0.4375 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(41 to 80)% Damage to Demons
+(101 to 150) to Life
+(6 to 10) Life on Attack
Total Character Defense (3 to 5)%
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (33 - 36) to (41 - 45)
Required Strength: 141
Required Level: 31
(Barbarian Only)
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.22 per Strength)%
4% Chance to cast level 8 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(1 to 2) to Barbarian Skill Levels
+(58 to 75)% Enhanced Damage
+0.5625 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(121 to 160)% Damage to Demons
+(201 to 250) to Life
+(16 to 20) Life on Attack
Total Character Defense (9 to 11)%
Socketed (4)
One-Hand Damage: (65 - 71) to (76 - 83)
Required Strength: 276
Required Level: 50
(Barbarian Only)
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.22 per Strength)%
6% Chance to cast level 12 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(1 to 3) to Barbarian Skill Levels
+(92 to 109)% Enhanced Damage
+0.6875 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(201 to 240)% Damage to Demons
+(301 to 350) to Life
+(26 to 30) Life on Attack
Total Character Defense (15 to 17)%
Socketed (5)
One-Hand Damage: (83 - 90) to (100 - 108)
Required Strength: 543
Required Level: 58
(Barbarian Only)
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.22 per Strength)%
8% Chance to cast level 14 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
+(2 to 3) to Barbarian Skill Levels
+(109 to 126)% Enhanced Damage
+0.75 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+(241 to 280)% Damage to Demons
+(351 to 400) to Life
+(31 to 35) Life on Attack
Total Character Defense (18 to 20)%
Socketed (6)
.

The spike nova damage isn't "terrible", but it does a good job spreading poison (the whole reason I wanted the proc itfp). I've been considering dual weilding
Finis Terra
Finis Terra
Falchion (4)

One-Hand Damage: (9 - 11) to (11 - 12)
Required Strength: 49
Required Level: 5
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.18 per Strength)%
3% Chance to cast level 2 Shower of Rocks on Melee Attack
+(24 to 40)% Enhanced Damage
Adds 10-16 fire damage
Adds 10-16 lightning damage
Adds 10-16 cold damage
Fire Resist +(11 to 15)%
Poison Resist +(11 to 15)%
Socketed (1)
One-Hand Damage: (22 - 24) to (26 - 29)
Required Strength: 79
Required Level: 24
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.18 per Strength)%
7% Chance to cast level 6 Shower of Rocks on Melee Attack
+(58 to 75)% Enhanced Damage
Adds 30-50 fire damage
Adds 30-50 lightning damage
Adds 30-50 cold damage
Fire Resist +(21 to 25)%
Poison Resist +(21 to 25)%
Socketed (2)
One-Hand Damage: (42 - 45) to (49 - 54)
Required Strength: 160
Required Level: 42
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.18 per Strength)%
11% Chance to cast level 10 Shower of Rocks on Melee Attack
+(92 to 109)% Enhanced Damage
Adds 90-150 fire damage
Adds 90-150 lightning damage
Adds 90-150 cold damage
Fire Resist +(31 to 35)%
Poison Resist +(31 to 35)%
Socketed (3)
One-Hand Damage: (54 - 58) to (64 - 70)
Required Strength: 319
Required Level: 52
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.18 per Strength)%
13% Chance to cast level 12 Shower of Rocks on Melee Attack
+(109 to 126)% Enhanced Damage
Adds 280-440 fire damage
Adds 280-440 lightning damage
Adds 280-440 cold damage
Fire Resist +(36 to 40)%
Poison Resist +(36 to 40)%
Socketed (3)
for the SoR, just to have some harder hitting AoE closer and the debuff. Need to try this out.

If not dual welding I was just going to use
Golden Fleece
Golden Fleece
Bull Shield (4)

Defense: (54 - 62) to (105 - 120)
Chance to Block: 1%
Required Strength: 10
Required Dexterity: 23
Required Level: 3
(Barbarian Only)
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(31 to 50)%
+(41 to 60)% Enhanced Defense
+(21 to 30) to Strength
Maximum Life (3 to 5)%
Elemental Resists +(11 to 15)%
(5 to 10)% Magic Find
Socketed (1)
Defense: (217 - 241) to (343 - 381)
Chance to Block: 1%
Required Strength: 15
Required Dexterity: 34
Required Level: 21
(Barbarian Only)
+2 to Barbarian Skill Levels
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(71 to 90)%
+(71 to 90)% Enhanced Defense
+(31 to 40) to Strength
Maximum Life (9 to 11)%
Elemental Resists +(21 to 25)%
(11 to 20)% Magic Find
Socketed (3)
Defense: (554 - 607) to (838 - 917)
Chance to Block: 1%
Required Strength: 32
Required Dexterity: 71
Required Level: 38
(Barbarian Only)
+3 to Barbarian Skill Levels
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(111 to 130)%
+(101 to 120)% Enhanced Defense
+(41 to 50) to Strength
Maximum Life (15 to 17)%
Elemental Resists +(31 to 35)%
(21 to 30)% Magic Find
Socketed (4)
Defense: (880 - 952) to (1319 - 1427)
Chance to Block: 1%
Required Strength: 67
Required Dexterity: 149
Required Level: 47
(Barbarian Only)
+4 to Barbarian Skill Levels
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(131 to 150)%
+(131 to 150)% Enhanced Defense
+(51 to 60) to Strength
Maximum Life (18 to 20)%
Elemental Resists +(36 to 40)%
(31 to 40)% Magic Find
Socketed (4)
for the +skills and %res.
Arionic
Pit Knight
118 | 1
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I know it's a bit expensive, but a maxed Vita windform barb using Azurewrath can literally mow down p8 Fauzt with great survivability. I have a single player save if you want to try it. The frozen orb proc from Azure and the pure cold damage plus 100% pierce just decimates. If you dual wield, bosses can go pretty quick as well.