I've played Diablo 2 off and on since it came out and more recently found Median.
I've played POE off and on since beta.
It's kinda apples and oranges and they all have some great ideas. If I could put the flask system in D2 I would. I still loathe PoE's skill tree, because it's so bloated with a lot of "you must pick this" linear garbage. Leveling just isn't fun or interesting because of this, but it's far better than it used to be where the skill tree was actually way bigger and more bloated. They are just kinda stuck in this eternal balance of "nodes that are actually good things people want" v/s "nodes that are just kinda there". Before PoE let you just outright buy skill gems from vendors, the game was far, far ,far , far ,far ,far (some more far) more tedious to play. It's in a good state now and with the expanded acts, it's crazy how much of a high end product it has been for free. I've bought a lot of stash tabs, but I've also played it for 800+ hours just on Steam, and much longer before it wasn't even on there. Still after all this time, there's only a couple builds or styles I like. I've never felt that "oomph" or joy from it though I've searched endlessly.
Median kinda gives me the game I wanted to play back. It's Diablo 2 with "more", which is what a lot of people wanted from Diablo 3, which I've played off and on since release too. I'm really happy that it exists and once I square up real life money issues, I'm going to donate.
TLDR: People are doing for free what Blizzard can't manage to do for 100$ worth of product made on a foundation where the original development team literally hated Diablo 2.
Another fun fact:
The original Diablo was going to be a game like X-com except with Diablo characters. What a change!
Noob Opinion: Median XL vs Path of Exile
I'm curious how you think the PoE skill tree compares to Median XL's mystic orbs. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I think they are basically performing the same function. So that each mo that you take can be considered roughly equal to a passive point on a PoE character. Likewise each gear slot can be considered as being roughly equal to an Ascendancy key node.
Being new to Diablo series, I find that gear in this game, but especially in Median XL, is more class defining than in PoE. You know, some weapons give you AoE while others give you armor penetration. Whether or not to use a shield also determines which rune bonuses you'll be eligible for. Staves give you faster cast speed and so on. Then there is the oskill mechanic combined with runewords and uptiering. Each piece of gear levels up with your character organically almost as if it is a character in and of itself.
As a newbie it was helpful for me to think of my gear as a part of my character in order to not be overwhelmed by all the features that this game dick smacks you in the face with. My point is that I think Median XL is even more brilliant than maybe even its own developers have realized yet. The gearing changes they've made are more than a modification - what they are pointing toward is simply superior to anything else out there that I've seen. And admittedly I haven't played that many games recently.
But I still don't think they've exploited it to the fullest yet. Not even half way. But if they wanted to do that, then maybe they should just cut loose from Diablo and make a game from scratch.
Full disclosure I'm a hobbyist game developer. I just tinker on the side for fun. And I am in the process of coding a roguelike rpg. And after playing Median XL - I see that my old school approach to gearing simply will not do any longer.
Being new to Diablo series, I find that gear in this game, but especially in Median XL, is more class defining than in PoE. You know, some weapons give you AoE while others give you armor penetration. Whether or not to use a shield also determines which rune bonuses you'll be eligible for. Staves give you faster cast speed and so on. Then there is the oskill mechanic combined with runewords and uptiering. Each piece of gear levels up with your character organically almost as if it is a character in and of itself.
As a newbie it was helpful for me to think of my gear as a part of my character in order to not be overwhelmed by all the features that this game dick smacks you in the face with. My point is that I think Median XL is even more brilliant than maybe even its own developers have realized yet. The gearing changes they've made are more than a modification - what they are pointing toward is simply superior to anything else out there that I've seen. And admittedly I haven't played that many games recently.
But I still don't think they've exploited it to the fullest yet. Not even half way. But if they wanted to do that, then maybe they should just cut loose from Diablo and make a game from scratch.
Full disclosure I'm a hobbyist game developer. I just tinker on the side for fun. And I am in the process of coding a roguelike rpg. And after playing Median XL - I see that my old school approach to gearing simply will not do any longer.
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Legendary Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 250.000 views
Great Supporter Badge
Donated 5 times
IMO, for an aRPG, I'd recommend Grim Dawn for now until Sigma comes out with Bounties and Color Dyes. To me, Sigma is just a fancy version of Median XL, which is like saying it's an extremely polished version of Diablo II. IDK why, but I was expecting something different after playing D2 for so many years. One thing Grim Dawn does that I love is a "bounty" system to explore area's you've already been before to find an enemy that drops very good items and gives good experience. If Sigma had that, it would revitalize a story-line I've already played to death. And the customization of your gear appearance in Grim Dawn is wonderful; nothing worse that having your toon look unappealing to you, which for some reason can detract from the enjoyment of the game for me. Unfortunately, Grim Dawn seems to scale a bit, like Sacred did but not nearly as bad, so even though some areas become easier, some stay harder so you don't always feel as if you're progressing which can be a huge turn-off! TBH, there is no perfect aRPG right now, but until Sigma comes out with those changes I mentioned, I'll personally stick with Grim Dawn. I should mention that Grim Dawn's dark story and atmosphere is most similar to Diablo 1, which is what sold me on purchasing Diablo 2 so many years ago. POE's story is lackluster. Anyway, my 2-cents.
Well I can agree that I didn't pick Druid in Median at first because I didn't like his looks.
It's also another reason why they should maybe make their own game at this point. Imagine a Final Fantasy Tactics game with Median XL's itemization. *drool*
It's also another reason why they should maybe make their own game at this point. Imagine a Final Fantasy Tactics game with Median XL's itemization. *drool*
BearCares wrote:Full disclosure I'm a hobbyist game developer. I just tinker on the side for fun. And I am in the process of coding a roguelike rpg. And after playing Median XL - I see that my old school approach to gearing simply will not do any longer.
I'm also a hobbyist dev, and no longer agree that oldskool ways of hard stat increases really appeal either. I've been working with another dev/artist for a while and we've had "ideas". We've come full circle on a lot of things, but we really feel like ultimately that templates are the bigger issue with most games that linger between set builds and actual freedom. Then again.... the problem with games that actually create freedom end up being a bit like Bethesda's games where being good at everything seems a bit ridiculous. There HAS to be restrictions, but I don't think linear lines and trees have aged well at all.
We've come up with a system that kinda defeats both of these problems, but in the end it's just "our way". There's gunna be people that don't like it. That's really the beauty of game design though. You break things until you find something you like and hope you can find a community that helps you make it better, while being a bit firm on your vision.
100% no disagreements though and the path forward in RPGs is new systems and clever ways of making leveling and progression a process that feels both alien and accessible. For me it's really having the player pull that slot machine handle but also getting a win now and then. Also not completely knee-capping the player because they didn't win enough or follow some path that everyone else flows through like lemmings. We view characters a lot like those GunPla model kits. Each kit is meant to be it's own thing, but we realize the hardcore GunPla modellers actually take 2-3 kits and bash them together because they want their own thing. These folks have an extreme advantage because if you considered the entire catalog of GunPla just a lot of assets to build your own thing, you are far less likely to feel limited in design, but yes there is a limited catalog by logic. Some people really just like the thrill of completing the model itself and making it perfect too. Neither of these philosophies overwrite themselves in the end. This applies to game design in that ultimately you can create obvious choices (Stack all the + mana and + magic damage stuff on the guy with the pointy hat), but give the player the tools to do their own thing too (Give the +mana stuff to a fighter and hand them a sword that shoots magic)
BearCares wrote:I'm curious how you think the PoE skill tree compares to Median XL's mystic orbs. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I think they are basically performing the same function. So that each mo that you take can be considered roughly equal to a passive point on a PoE character. Likewise each gear slot can be considered as being roughly equal to an Ascendancy key node.
UMOs are very high end, pure luck things but it's that last level of tweaking. The vendored MOs do allow that function once you learn about horrific items or add them to other items. I think it's a really cool system and yeah it gives you exactly what you want and doesn't introduce bloat, yet still remains restrictive enough to add strategy. If you look at it this way, it's a superior version to those nodes in POE that are meant to be supplemental but are also forced.
BearCares wrote: My point is that I think Median XL is even more brilliant than maybe even its own developers have realized yet. The gearing changes they've made are more than a modification - what they are pointing toward is simply superior to anything else out there that I've seen. And admittedly I haven't played that many games recently.
Nah, our little team agrees. It's added a considerable amount of drawing board time to what we had going on. Not to mention our whole team has been strung out on it and hasn't done much work
It's really amazing what they've been able to accomplish on top of an existing platform, but again the theme here is... restrictions do add to your creativity sometimesBearCares wrote: Imagine a Final Fantasy Tactics game with Median XL's itemization. *drool*
Yes, we've tried a few things so far and this was one of them. Another great thing about modular design in gamedev... plugging systems into systems to see what happens. Our last try was actually something like Factorio where you were building this full on megabase that shot lasers at creeps and the guy you were controlling was really complex ala ARPGs. The factory and digging up stuff was the part that made him stronger, but it got really... weird. We'll find something, but honestly every time I just break it down into number crunching and make the game more about simply that, the happier I am. " Stat Calculator - The Game" is a good place to start
Well what is reality but a bunch of coalescent statistics? I did some research into some of the games I never got a chance to play such as the Baldur's Gate series and other obscure European and Japanese titles from the past and it seems like in the early days, before EA and SquareEnix and Bethesda, many prominant titles were closer to simulations than even the most strategic titles are today. I think what's happening today is people are taking their decades of gaming experience in order to re-introduce that simulation sensibility but in a more organic way. That's what PoE's skill tree is all about. A game-ified representation of what it means to 'learn' how to become a badass. If you want to go one way, then you have to compromise on going the other way. If you want a specialized skillset, then you have spend more time in that particular area doing backflips and somersaults worth of knowledge and experience gaining.
Thing is that mo's represent this notion more concisely, and ultimately by giving the player greater room for expression. And if someone had pitched this idea to me, I wouldn't have ever thought that it would be able to be as great as it is. To me it's almost like E = mc squared because of how it doesn't seem very meaningful to hear it until you're introduced to all the other systems that that go along with it like uptiering and runewords etc... and then it starts to become clearer.
Well anyway, currently my prototype gameplay mechanic for my for fun project involves a cooldown based skill system. The player attaches skills to either a card, a die, or a personalized wheel. The wheel is determinstic and doesn't cooldown until the party rests such as at an inn for example, the die allows you to cast a skill randomly without evoking its cooldown, and the cards can be drawn and held to the hand to be played when appropriate, but their cooldowns cannot be bypassed by traditional means. Their are also powerful coin skills that either have a [+++/---] or [++/+] style balance between outcomes based on the coinflip. Coinflips are basically limit breaks and usually only 1 coinflip can be cast before resting the entire party. So if you enter into a dungeon you get 1 max coinflip - unless you invest in gaining more. Each coin has weighted sides. So you can create conditions during battle where the outcome of the flip will be deterministic. But satisfying those conditions may requre you to play in an otherwise unoptimal fashion. Such as fighting without resistences. Or having an empty hand. Or playing 1 of each skill type before flipping the coin. Etc.
Attaching skills to a die is very cheap but also very random. Offensive skills are weaker when cast from a die. Defensive skills are stronger. I mean unless you invest in turning that around.
Wheels give bonuses to utility skills. But once you attach a skill to the wheel it can only be used once before resting as I said.
And cards are considered the 'natural' method to play and so their results are considered neutral. Playing with cards revolves around skillfully managing your cooldowns and card draws.
My gearing setup was basic before. But I am now moving to a mystic orb-like gearing system. Of course, it's not exactly the same as Medians. But have I learned a whole lot from this mod? Uh, yeah I think so!
Thanks Median XL! If by some miracle I ever end up with a commercial product of any sort that has been partially inspired by this mod, I'll definiately give the credit to where its due. Not just with words but with money. I think that highly of mo's. Not sure if I ever would have thought of this matrix of mechanisms.
But uh, don't hold your breath on that ever happening lol
Thing is that mo's represent this notion more concisely, and ultimately by giving the player greater room for expression. And if someone had pitched this idea to me, I wouldn't have ever thought that it would be able to be as great as it is. To me it's almost like E = mc squared because of how it doesn't seem very meaningful to hear it until you're introduced to all the other systems that that go along with it like uptiering and runewords etc... and then it starts to become clearer.
Well anyway, currently my prototype gameplay mechanic for my for fun project involves a cooldown based skill system. The player attaches skills to either a card, a die, or a personalized wheel. The wheel is determinstic and doesn't cooldown until the party rests such as at an inn for example, the die allows you to cast a skill randomly without evoking its cooldown, and the cards can be drawn and held to the hand to be played when appropriate, but their cooldowns cannot be bypassed by traditional means. Their are also powerful coin skills that either have a [+++/---] or [++/+] style balance between outcomes based on the coinflip. Coinflips are basically limit breaks and usually only 1 coinflip can be cast before resting the entire party. So if you enter into a dungeon you get 1 max coinflip - unless you invest in gaining more. Each coin has weighted sides. So you can create conditions during battle where the outcome of the flip will be deterministic. But satisfying those conditions may requre you to play in an otherwise unoptimal fashion. Such as fighting without resistences. Or having an empty hand. Or playing 1 of each skill type before flipping the coin. Etc.
Attaching skills to a die is very cheap but also very random. Offensive skills are weaker when cast from a die. Defensive skills are stronger. I mean unless you invest in turning that around.
Wheels give bonuses to utility skills. But once you attach a skill to the wheel it can only be used once before resting as I said.
And cards are considered the 'natural' method to play and so their results are considered neutral. Playing with cards revolves around skillfully managing your cooldowns and card draws.
My gearing setup was basic before. But I am now moving to a mystic orb-like gearing system. Of course, it's not exactly the same as Medians. But have I learned a whole lot from this mod? Uh, yeah I think so!
Thanks Median XL! If by some miracle I ever end up with a commercial product of any sort that has been partially inspired by this mod, I'll definiately give the credit to where its due. Not just with words but with money. I think that highly of mo's. Not sure if I ever would have thought of this matrix of mechanisms.
But uh, don't hold your breath on that ever happening lol
I just started playing POE and I'm looking for a quick way to get Orbs. Someone can recommend an online store or guide?
Edited by therobin95 3 years.
Yo, ive been playing diablo series since classic d1, d2 from start till now with sigma. POE since closed beta till now.
You might have realized that both games were developed in multiple ways over the years. To me median always had this "original" diablo flavor which i love so much. POE is not what it was before, every new league looks like undeveloped bullshit, recent one reeks of boredom and believe me i could not be more happy when ive seen new league announcement here .
I shall simply say, POE was over when tencent bought them (chinese takeover), diablo franchise ended when activi$$ion (chinese owner) bought blizzard. As long as Laz legacy is in a good hands im quite confident ill return to my beloved d2/median from time to time.
Peace
Greg
You might have realized that both games were developed in multiple ways over the years. To me median always had this "original" diablo flavor which i love so much. POE is not what it was before, every new league looks like undeveloped bullshit, recent one reeks of boredom and believe me i could not be more happy when ive seen new league announcement here .
I shall simply say, POE was over when tencent bought them (chinese takeover), diablo franchise ended when activi$$ion (chinese owner) bought blizzard. As long as Laz legacy is in a good hands im quite confident ill return to my beloved d2/median from time to time.
Peace
Greg
How is there even a comparison between Median and Path of Exile. No insult to Median developers here, but this comparison is like comparing the Hello World program I made in my CS101 class in my freshman year to the final graduation project I did after 4 years. One is a proper game with a full game's worth of new content every 3 months. Path of exile adds 10 Medians worth of content every league and has an actual player base that's at least 1000 times larger. MXL is a great mod that's worth playing for 7-10 days MAX assuming the current POE league is dull (such as harvest). I'm sorry but this is just the truth. I'm not criticizing the excellent work by Median developers (I love this mod a lot) but this is the answer to the question OP asked.