Does every skill in MXL really has to be completely new?

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Pub
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At this point, a lot of the points you are presenting just seems very rose tinted to me, in the same way Crash is calling you out. Old skills being fun and should be added is actually the dumbest argument ever because its subjective. I found leap fun cause i was a dick head spamming sMax leap in public pvp making people rage but just because it was fun in that sense, doesnt mean it fits into median xl.

But if i used how youve presented your "arguments" in a similar fashion, it looks like this.

Leap is fun and should be added because it was fun and will make the mod better.

No one knows why its fun, explain why. No one knows why it will make the mod better, explain why. At least at that point you point some thought into why it was fun and why it can improve the mod, and more people will listen.

But for now, you know where diablo 2 clod is and if the devs agree with you and add it in, more power to you to enjoy it.
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Crash
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I've determined he made this post to troll others, as no solid evidence has been given as to why skills should be added back, like you said, Pub. Almost every skill is based on a vanilla skill, I think mechanically, almost every projectile is based on Frozen Orb? Someone call RandomOnions to confirm this. :D

I'm not opposed to new skills being added. I also never told you to go play vanilla, I just said it sounds like you want to play vanilla. Don't twist people's words to make yourself look more correct in the discussion. Things need to fit in the concept of MXL, which is much faster-paced and specified for things like mob control, single target, etc. Things have to flow together. Besides, I think runewords still have a big rework on the list, so who knows.

No one has really acted aggressive, but you became defensive after proposing this big discussion without explaining what changes you want and/or why
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clueso
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Pub wrote:Old skills being fun and should be added is actually the dumbest argument ever because its subjective.

But numerous skills already have been added to Median XL that are basically the exact same skills as in LoD classic, only with some minor mechanical tweeks and maybe some visual updates, so that statement of yours I quoted does not hold water in the broader context.

Sure, fun is subjective and the skills I listed as EXAMPLES are based on my personal preference, but everyone else could have suggested other skills in this thread and we could have a discussion now about which other classic skills could be brought to median and how to adjust them for median...

But furthermore, skills like Frozen Orb, Lightning Fury, Bone Spear, Bone Spirit (and of course some of the other skills that are already in median in one form or another, like Whirlwind) where very iconic and popular in classic and that should speak for itself when you ask about fun.

Pub wrote:I found leap fun cause i was a dick head spamming sMax leap in public pvp making people rage but just because it was fun in that sense, doesnt mean it fits into median xl.

I agree.

Crash wrote:I've determined he made this post to troll others, as no solid evidence has been given as to why skills should be added back, like you said, Pub.

The point is, as I have said numerous times in this thread, a lot of skills also have been brought back to Median XL in one way or another, so my argument is, why not bring back some more (with some mechanical tweeks and under a different name)?

Crush wrote:I also never told you to go play vanilla, I just said it sounds like you want to play vanilla. Don't twist people's words to make yourself look more correct in the discussion.

Okay, I give you that. I may have mixed your words with those of someone else who made a similar statement.

Crush wrote:Things need to fit in the concept of MXL, which is much faster-paced and specified for things like mob control, single target, etc. Things have to flow together.

I definitely agree, but how do skills like Lightning Fury, Frozen Orb (without cooldown), Blizzard (without cooldown), Multishot, Bone Spirit (which eventually can move faster and detonate in an AoE), Thunderstorm (that can proc more often and detonate into Charged Bolts), etc not fit into the more fast pace gameplay of Median as you say?
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Crash
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I'm not saying your ideas are bad by any means, and I certainly don't want to continue arguments (is this an argument?) when we could be productive or beneficial to the game.

What becomes a larger concern in this matter is how can the skills be added to not throw off the balance of the game? A lot of oskills have low %wdm for this reason to keep them viable with more investment, as you're meant to push towards that build, but not make the skill trees totally useless.

Lightning Fury, FO, Blizzard (proc on Buriza) are all in the game now, the first two being parts of brand new sets this season with their niche mechanics, like Lightning Fury having a WDM projectile, but explodes into lightning bolts that deal spell damage, etc. And yes, I get it, these are just examples, but there's a lot of things to consider when introducing new stuff and balancing numbers, such as multiple shot being Sunstrike (old bowzon skill with new Trinity Strike replacing it) is converted on the
Signal Fire
Signal Fire
Composite Bow (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (202 - 233) to (315 - 348)
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 470
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.13 per Dexterity)%
Sun Strike Shoots 1 Projectile
Sun Strike: +18% Bonus Fire Damage per Base Level in the Bow Tree
50% Attack Speed
Adds 50-150 Damage
-(25 to 40)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(150 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+50 to Sun Strike
+300 Life Regenerated per Second
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clueso
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Crash wrote:I'm not saying your ideas are bad by any means, and I certainly don't want to continue arguments (is this an argument?) when we could be productive or beneficial to the game.

What becomes a larger concern in this matter is how can the skills be added to not throw off the balance of the game? A lot of oskills have low %wdm for this reason to keep them viable with more investment, as you're meant to push towards that build, but not make the skill trees totally useless.

Lightning Fury, FO, Blizzard (proc on Buriza) are all in the game now, the first two being parts of brand new sets this season with their niche mechanics, like Lightning Fury having a WDM projectile, but explodes into lightning bolts that deal spell damage, etc. And yes, I get it, these are just examples, but there's a lot of things to consider when introducing new stuff and balancing numbers, such as multiple shot being Sunstrike (old bowzon skill with new Trinity Strike replacing it) is converted on the
Signal Fire
Signal Fire
Composite Bow (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (202 - 233) to (315 - 348)
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 470
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.13 per Dexterity)%
Sun Strike Shoots 1 Projectile
Sun Strike: +18% Bonus Fire Damage per Base Level in the Bow Tree
50% Attack Speed
Adds 50-150 Damage
-(25 to 40)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(150 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+50 to Sun Strike
+300 Life Regenerated per Second
Maximum Fire Resist +(3 to 5)%
Cannot Be Frozen
Socketed (6)
bow to a single shot but scales hugely with investment being a 100% conversion to fire damage so you can't abuse leech potential, etc.

Sure, balance has to be considered, just like with every skill that gets implemented in the mod, but if that is the only thing that stands in the way of bringing some of the old skills over to median (with some adjustments of course), then I don't see that as too much of a hindrance.
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Crash
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I mean, mostly it comes down to the current balance of skills already in the game vs adding more and pushing the balancing even further back on the to-do list. If you just keep cramming stuff into a game without conquering small tasks of balance and bugfixes in between, no one would keep playing or it would end up like other mods/vanilla d2 where 99% of playerbase played the same 2 builds. MXL is even like that, but has gotten better over the years with new items opening up useless stats like
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Radiance
Tiara (Sacred)

Defense: 725 to 820
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 392
Item Level: 120
+2 Spell Focus per 1 Light Radius
+3% Fire Spell Damage per 1 Light Radius
-1% Cold Spell Damage per 1 Light Radius
+(2 to 3) to All Skills
-(15 to 20)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
Physical Resist 10%
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-5% to All Vendor Prices
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enabling Light Radius to have a use.
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clueso
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Crash wrote:I mean, mostly it comes down to the current balance of skills already in the game vs adding more and pushing the balancing even further back on the to-do list. If you just keep cramming stuff into a game without conquering small tasks of balance and bugfixes in between, no one would keep playing or it would end up like other mods/vanilla d2 where 99% of playerbase played the same 2 builds. MXL is even like that, but has gotten better over the years with new items opening up useless stats like
Radiance
Radiance
Tiara (Sacred)

Defense: 725 to 820
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 392
Item Level: 120
+2 Spell Focus per 1 Light Radius
+3% Fire Spell Damage per 1 Light Radius
-1% Cold Spell Damage per 1 Light Radius
+(2 to 3) to All Skills
-(15 to 20)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
Physical Resist 10%
Cannot Be Frozen
-5% to All Vendor Prices
Socketed (4)
enabling Light Radius to have a use.

Yeah, you have a point there.

I think there has to be decent balance between balancing the game and the amount of content in the game.

Not enough content and people will not care or be less exited and when the balance is off severely, everyone will be frustrated.
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Knight_Saber
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Bring back Barbarian 'leap'.
Always a max point skill in cLoD.

It doesn't need to deal damage, be fast, or anything. It just needs a terrible animation to remind you that you are playing a game from 2000.
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Crash
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We have that in the necro skill Angel of Death
Ywinel
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Again complaints about median being median :D

Huge part of vanilla skills/mechanics was added in the mod, some just in different way. Others didn't suit well(like most of low level skills, they would be shit) or were just personal choices.

Adding vanilla skills as oskills isn't bad, some are alreadyadded and people are fine. Adding them to tree is rather bad. This game is 20 years old, these skills are currently boring enough and people are usually seekng something new.

Not having skills you like or having them not where you want are individual preferences. This doesn't mean that modder should change mod for you unless you are really hardly supported. I don't see so much support in this topic so guess the outcome.