General Season 22 Feedback and Ideas For the Future

Absolutely amazing thread.

Firstly, I completely agree with the loot hunting portion. It's pretty disheartening to be 1 month into a new season and only have a handful of really great items that everyone wants to have one (for example, khazra plate, strength beyond strength), not to mention certain items not dropping at all for seasons straight (tyrone...). I always wanted to own a good buried hawk, which would potentially allow me to have a much easier time in labyrinth. Not only I don't have the tg to buy one, but I wouldn't have anyone to buy it from anyway. Devs need to change their design philosophy if they want to keep players interested long term because no one wants to play 2 week on a class, reroll to another and being unable to progress because there aren't items on the market anymore because nobody farms anymore. Which brings to my next point which is nerfed duncraig. A less influx of good items only hurts this game because less and less players get to test what they theorycrafted. I believe this is mostly because devs want people to buy tg for real money so they'll be able to buy that big item they always wanted.

The economy is in a very bad place. You have the same 2-3 guys every season affording to create their full fledged builds for labyrinth because they can afford to outbid anyone on pretty much anything (looking at you vikan, paying 100tg+ for every essence of itherael). What's worse is that tg carries from season to season and while it would be a bad idea to just delete it, I do believe they could put a cooldown before your tg became available (other than the one you earn in that season) of like 2-3 weeks so people have time to gear themselves up in the same fashion you do. At the moment, the game is extremely unfriendly for new players. It's pure pay to win and that's a very bad thing for a pve type of game. What makes it worse is that the game is pidgeonholed into exactly two encounters that you want to chase and you need really good gear to even attempt those encounters (samael and high tier labs). It's literally the rich get richer every single season, till the death of the mod. I can't even farm stuff anymore because it feels so bad. Spending an entire day farming with nothing to show for. K3k is great, but lacks endgame rewards. Duncraig is garbage now. You need to grind fauzt a ton until you find your first knuckle or whatever and the general item drops in there are very bad anyway. Take this scenario. It's 1 month into the season, I'm broke and I need to farm some tg. Charms are no longer an option because everyone has everything. Farming very top end content like samael or dimensional keys is impossible on a non meta build. What do I do? Blindly farming duncraig for 2 days straight with probably nothing to show for or is it playing the slot machine that is umbaru treasure? Or do I grind k3k for signets until my hands bleed? Because I already did that last season and I had 10 akarats trophy by the time I was done. It was fun, for the first 20% runs or so. Can you let us have some chase items for god sake. I have seen 3 buried hawks the entire season on the market, one of which has a bugged uberskill BY THE WAY.

Personally, I don't agree with this extremely elitist design that you need to be an (quote) "absolute median xl god" to complete samael and t15 lab and I see neither do a lot of people. I believe median xl reached the point where it could afford to be a little easier due to the vast amount of content it has. People would enjoy it more, in my opinion, solely because not a lot of people like to grind endlessly on a single character and would rather reroll to something else after a period of time. Personally, I don't like to reroll if I didn't get my build through all content, meaning killing samael and completing t15. It just feels bad to throw away your current character, as if it is incomplete. Cool, let people grind lab for ladder, but don't make it so discriminating.

I do agree that bowzon has amazing clear speed, but it's mostly due to the one item, which is hellreach. It's a very good farming item, but you will struggle in lab with it, solely because you'll lose too much damage if you decide to pick paragon over spirit of vengeance, the former which synergizes very nicely with resist gems. So it's a tradeoff between damage and survivability.

which buried hawk is bugged?

Celestialray wrote:Absolutely amazing thread.

Firstly, I completely agree with the loot hunting portion. It's pretty disheartening to be 1 month into a new season and only have a handful of really great items that everyone wants to have one (for example, khazra plate, strength beyond strength), not to mention certain items not dropping at all for seasons straight (tyrone...). I always wanted to own a good buried hawk, which would potentially allow me to have a much easier time in labyrinth. Not only I don't have the tg to buy one, but I wouldn't have anyone to buy it from anyway. Devs need to change their design philosophy if they want to keep players interested long term because no one wants to play 2 week on a class, reroll to another and being unable to progress because there aren't items on the market anymore because nobody farms anymore. Which brings to my next point which is nerfed duncraig. A less influx of good items only hurts this game because less and less players get to test what they theorycrafted. I believe this is mostly because devs want people to buy tg for real money so they'll be able to buy that big item they always wanted.

The economy is in a very bad place. You have the same 2-3 guys every season affording to create their full fledged builds for labyrinth because they can afford to outbid anyone on pretty much anything (looking at you vikan, paying 100tg+ for every essence of itherael). What's worse is that tg carries from season to season and while it would be a bad idea to just delete it, I do believe they could put a cooldown before your tg became available (other than the one you earn in that season) of like 2-3 weeks so people have time to gear themselves up in the same fashion you do. At the moment, the game is extremely unfriendly for new players. It's pure pay to win and that's a very bad thing for a pve type of game. What makes it worse is that the game is pidgeonholed into exactly two encounters that you want to chase and you need really good gear to even attempt those encounters (samael and high tier labs). It's literally the rich get richer every single season, till the death of the mod. I can't even farm stuff anymore because it feels so bad. Spending an entire day farming with nothing to show for. K3k is great, but lacks endgame rewards. Duncraig is garbage now. You need to grind fauzt a ton until you find your first knuckle or whatever and the general item drops in there are very bad anyway. Take this scenario. It's 1 month into the season, I'm broke and I need to farm some tg. Charms are no longer an option because everyone has everything. Farming very top end content like samael or dimensional keys is impossible on a non meta build. What do I do? Blindly farming duncraig for 2 days straight with probably nothing to show for or is it playing the slot machine that is umbaru treasure? Or do I grind k3k for signets until my hands bleed? Because I already did that last season and I had 10 akarats trophy by the time I was done. It was fun, for the first 20% runs or so. Can you let us have some chase items for god sake. I have seen 3 buried hawks the entire season on the market, one of which has a bugged uberskill BY THE WAY.

Personally, I don't agree with this extremely elitist design that you need to be an (quote) "absolute median xl god" to complete samael and t15 lab and I see neither do a lot of people. I believe median xl reached the point where it could afford to be a little easier due to the vast amount of content it has. People would enjoy it more, in my opinion, solely because not a lot of people like to grind endlessly on a single character and would rather reroll to something else after a period of time. Personally, I don't like to reroll if I didn't get my build through all content, meaning killing samael and completing t15. It just feels bad to throw away your current character, as if it is incomplete. Cool, let people grind lab for ladder, but don't make it so discriminating.

I do agree that bowzon has amazing clear speed, but it's mostly due to the one item, which is hellreach. It's a very good farming item, but you will struggle in lab with it, solely because you'll lose too much damage if you decide to pick paragon over spirit of vengeance, the former which synergizes very nicely with resist gems. So it's a tradeoff between damage and survivability.

This actually made me laugh pointing out vik for the sake that he legit puts many hours on hours into the game knows how to sell items so you point him out at the 100 TG each essence of ith they have gone for 80 to 100 sense I started playing a year ago nice rant lmfao

I guess I don't mind because Base Diablo II is just as greedy with it's items that nobody gets to see because the rarity is too high, but I see where OP is coming from.

Celestialray wrote:Absolutely amazing thread.

Firstly, I completely agree with the loot hunting portion. It's pretty disheartening to be 1 month into a new season and only have a handful of really great items that everyone wants to have one (for example, khazra plate, strength beyond strength), not to mention certain items not dropping at all for seasons straight (tyrone...). I always wanted to own a good buried hawk, which would potentially allow me to have a much easier time in labyrinth. Not only I don't have the tg to buy one, but I wouldn't have anyone to buy it from anyway. Devs need to change their design philosophy if they want to keep players interested long term because no one wants to play 2 week on a class, reroll to another and being unable to progress because there aren't items on the market anymore because nobody farms anymore. Which brings to my next point which is nerfed duncraig. A less influx of good items only hurts this game because less and less players get to test what they theorycrafted. I believe this is mostly because devs want people to buy tg for real money so they'll be able to buy that big item they always wanted.

The economy is in a very bad place. You have the same 2-3 guys every season affording to create their full fledged builds for labyrinth because they can afford to outbid anyone on pretty much anything (looking at you vikan, paying 100tg+ for every essence of itherael). What's worse is that tg carries from season to season and while it would be a bad idea to just delete it, I do believe they could put a cooldown before your tg became available (other than the one you earn in that season) of like 2-3 weeks so people have time to gear themselves up in the same fashion you do. At the moment, the game is extremely unfriendly for new players. It's pure pay to win and that's a very bad thing for a pve type of game. What makes it worse is that the game is pidgeonholed into exactly two encounters that you want to chase and you need really good gear to even attempt those encounters (samael and high tier labs). It's literally the rich get richer every single season, till the death of the mod. I can't even farm stuff anymore because it feels so bad. Spending an entire day farming with nothing to show for. K3k is great, but lacks endgame rewards. Duncraig is garbage now. You need to grind fauzt a ton until you find your first knuckle or whatever and the general item drops in there are very bad anyway. Take this scenario. It's 1 month into the season, I'm broke and I need to farm some tg. Charms are no longer an option because everyone has everything. Farming very top end content like samael or dimensional keys is impossible on a non meta build. What do I do? Blindly farming duncraig for 2 days straight with probably nothing to show for or is it playing the slot machine that is umbaru treasure? Or do I grind k3k for signets until my hands bleed? Because I already did that last season and I had 10 akarats trophy by the time I was done. It was fun, for the first 20% runs or so. Can you let us have some chase items for god sake. I have seen 3 buried hawks the entire season on the market, one of which has a bugged uberskill BY THE WAY.

Personally, I don't agree with this extremely elitist design that you need to be an (quote) "absolute median xl god" to complete samael and t15 lab and I see neither do a lot of people. I believe median xl reached the point where it could afford to be a little easier due to the vast amount of content it has. People would enjoy it more, in my opinion, solely because not a lot of people like to grind endlessly on a single character and would rather reroll to something else after a period of time. Personally, I don't like to reroll if I didn't get my build through all content, meaning killing samael and completing t15. It just feels bad to throw away your current character, as if it is incomplete. Cool, let people grind lab for ladder, but don't make it so discriminating.

I do agree that bowzon has amazing clear speed, but it's mostly due to the one item, which is hellreach. It's a very good farming item, but you will struggle in lab with it, solely because you'll lose too much damage if you decide to pick paragon over spirit of vengeance, the former which synergizes very nicely with resist gems. So it's a tradeoff between damage and survivability.

THis explained why so many people already quited this season
Everyone just rush to do the charms and sell them @ high price then quited for every season tbh
lab is too hard for some builds which made no fun at all QQ

Celestialray wrote:
► Show Spoiler
Absolutely amazing thread.

Firstly, I completely agree with the loot hunting portion. It's pretty disheartening to be 1 month into a new season and only have a handful of really great items that everyone wants to have one (for example, khazra plate, strength beyond strength), not to mention certain items not dropping at all for seasons straight (tyrone...). I always wanted to own a good buried hawk, which would potentially allow me to have a much easier time in labyrinth. Not only I don't have the tg to buy one, but I wouldn't have anyone to buy it from anyway. Devs need to change their design philosophy if they want to keep players interested long term because no one wants to play 2 week on a class, reroll to another and being unable to progress because there aren't items on the market anymore because nobody farms anymore. Which brings to my next point which is nerfed duncraig. A less influx of good items only hurts this game because less and less players get to test what they theorycrafted. I believe this is mostly because devs want people to buy tg for real money so they'll be able to buy that big item they always wanted.

The economy is in a very bad place. You have the same 2-3 guys every season affording to create their full fledged builds for labyrinth because they can afford to outbid anyone on pretty much anything (looking at you vikan, paying 100tg+ for every essence of itherael). What's worse is that tg carries from season to season and while it would be a bad idea to just delete it, I do believe they could put a cooldown before your tg became available (other than the one you earn in that season) of like 2-3 weeks so people have time to gear themselves up in the same fashion you do. At the moment, the game is extremely unfriendly for new players. It's pure pay to win and that's a very bad thing for a pve type of game. What makes it worse is that the game is pidgeonholed into exactly two encounters that you want to chase and you need really good gear to even attempt those encounters (samael and high tier labs). It's literally the rich get richer every single season, till the death of the mod. I can't even farm stuff anymore because it feels so bad. Spending an entire day farming with nothing to show for. K3k is great, but lacks endgame rewards. Duncraig is garbage now. You need to grind fauzt a ton until you find your first knuckle or whatever and the general item drops in there are very bad anyway. Take this scenario. It's 1 month into the season, I'm broke and I need to farm some tg. Charms are no longer an option because everyone has everything. Farming very top end content like samael or dimensional keys is impossible on a non meta build. What do I do? Blindly farming duncraig for 2 days straight with probably nothing to show for or is it playing the slot machine that is umbaru treasure? Or do I grind k3k for signets until my hands bleed? Because I already did that last season and I had 10 akarats trophy by the time I was done. It was fun, for the first 20% runs or so. Can you let us have some chase items for god sake. I have seen 3 buried hawks the entire season on the market, one of which has a bugged uberskill BY THE WAY.

Personally, I don't agree with this extremely elitist design that you need to be an (quote) "absolute median xl god" to complete samael and t15 lab and I see neither do a lot of people. I believe median xl reached the point where it could afford to be a little easier due to the vast amount of content it has. People would enjoy it more, in my opinion, solely because not a lot of people like to grind endlessly on a single character and would rather reroll to something else after a period of time. Personally, I don't like to reroll if I didn't get my build through all content, meaning killing samael and completing t15. It just feels bad to throw away your current character, as if it is incomplete. Cool, let people grind lab for ladder, but don't make it so discriminating.

I do agree that bowzon has amazing clear speed, but it's mostly due to the one item, which is hellreach. It's a very good farming item, but you will struggle in lab with it, solely because you'll lose too much damage if you decide to pick paragon over spirit of vengeance, the former which synergizes very nicely with resist gems. So it's a tradeoff between damage and survivability.

Very, very well said. While you do share a lot of the same opinions as others, the core issue that I see is tg capitalism. Everyone is subject to the same changes each patch - drop rates and difficulty will affect everyone.

How do you counter in-game difficulties? Good Gear

How do you get good gear? Trade/Tg or Massive Time Devotion

How do you get tg? $$$

Tg is available at all times. At the start of a season (when good gear is worth the most), those with the most tg will be first to get good gear. This will allow them to progress further/faster, translating into more tg (feedback loop). Independent players usually go down two routes:

1. Play casually until reaching a standstill mid 120 ubers
2. Devote much time and catch up to traders (market for selling will be small)

TLDR - Progression philosophy on the sin wars currently favors those with tg/money.
Recommendations for casual players: Attain what tg you can and pursue a build that uses non-meta gear
Recommendations for devs: Rethink the way tg works (I understand where ya'll are coming from though!!! If it must be this way, it must be this way)

supersage10 wrote:This actually made me laugh pointing out vik for the sake that he legit puts many hours on hours into the game knows how to sell items so you point him out at the 100 TG each essence of ith they have gone for 80 to 100 sense I started playing a year ago nice rant lmfao

Knows how to sell items? Rofl, what does that even mean? You just put a thread up, bump it every hour, maybe make it pretty and readable, spam discord channel every 20 minutes and that's it.

It's not about putting hours on end in one season. Is putting hours on end in one season and benefiting from the tg you acquire in it the next season. It IS an unfair advantage. For your information, vikan went down 5k tg this season, despite 'knowing how to sell items'. That to me sounds like he should have had less 5k tg worth of items if tg wasn't carried season to season.

While I understand that removing tg from season to season is very bad for their business, I do believe locking it for 2 weeks into a new season would be fair. People buy best in slot items day 3 and go on to farm uldyssian for example and make bank off neutrality pacts. Now vikan didn't do this cause he was too busy running lab, which is not exactly that profitable, until he gets to farm t15 reliably and sell fully upgraded dimensional keys for 1ktg and going back to his eternal 30k tg. It's lame. Why make a ladder based on necessity of tg if you're going to make it pay to win / play in advance to have tg next season. Yes, I could dedicate one season to farm tg so I can have it next season, but what kind of game does this? It makes no sense.

And it doesn't matter how much essences have increased. It's just that vikan is going to outbid for all of them. If you're going to want to buy them for 140tg, he'll get them for 150tg. Stop with the vikan brown nosing. I don't hate the guy, but I can't respect him either. Plays the same broken build for 5 seasons straight and at the same time having 30k tg to back him up. Of course he's gonna be #1 on the ladder...

2cat wrote:lab is too hard for some players

Fixed.

Celestialray wrote:
supersage10 wrote:This actually made me laugh pointing out vik for the sake that he legit puts many hours on hours into the game knows how to sell items so you point him out at the 100 TG each essence of ith they have gone for 80 to 100 sense I started playing a year ago nice rant lmfao

Knows how to sell items? Rofl, what does that even mean? You just put a thread up, bump it every hour, maybe make it pretty and readable, spam discord channel every 20 minutes and that's it.

It's not about putting hours on end in one season. Is putting hours on end in one season and benefiting from the tg you acquire in it the next season. It IS an unfair advantage. For your information, vikan went down 5k tg this season, despite 'knowing how to sell items'. That to me sounds like he should have had less 5k tg worth of items if tg wasn't carried season to season.

While I understand that removing tg from season to season is very bad for their business, I do believe locking it for 2 weeks into a new season would be fair. People buy best in slot items day 3 and go on to farm uldyssian for example and make bank off neutrality pacts. Now vikan didn't do this cause he was too busy running lab, which is not exactly that profitable, until he gets to farm t15 reliably and sell fully upgraded dimensional keys for 1ktg and going back to his eternal 30k tg. It's lame. Why make a ladder based on necessity of tg if you're going to make it pay to win / play in advance to have tg next season. Yes, I could dedicate one season to farm tg so I can have it next season, but what kind of game does this? It makes no sense.

And it doesn't matter how much essences have increased. It's just that vikan is going to outbid for all of them. If you're going to want to buy them for 140tg, he'll get them for 150tg. Stop with the vikan brown nosing. I don't hate the guy, but I can't respect him either. Plays the same broken build for 5 seasons straight and at the same time having 30k tg to back him up. Of course he's gonna be #1 on the ladder...

Broken builds? Like what exactly?

Celestialray wrote:
Absolutely amazing thread.

► Show Spoiler
Firstly, I completely agree with the loot hunting portion. It's pretty disheartening to be 1 month into a new season and only have a handful of really great items that everyone wants to have one (for example, khazra plate, strength beyond strength), not to mention certain items not dropping at all for seasons straight (tyrone...). I always wanted to own a good buried hawk, which would potentially allow me to have a much easier time in labyrinth. Not only I don't have the tg to buy one, but I wouldn't have anyone to buy it from anyway. Devs need to change their design philosophy if they want to keep players interested long term because no one wants to play 2 week on a class, reroll to another and being unable to progress because there aren't items on the market anymore because nobody farms anymore. Which brings to my next point which is nerfed duncraig. A less influx of good items only hurts this game because less and less players get to test what they theorycrafted. I believe this is mostly because devs want people to buy tg for real money so they'll be able to buy that big item they always wanted.

The economy is in a very bad place. You have the same 2-3 guys every season affording to create their full fledged builds for labyrinth because they can afford to outbid anyone on pretty much anything (looking at you vikan, paying 100tg+ for every essence of itherael). What's worse is that tg carries from season to season and while it would be a bad idea to just delete it, I do believe they could put a cooldown before your tg became available (other than the one you earn in that season) of like 2-3 weeks so people have time to gear themselves up in the same fashion you do. At the moment, the game is extremely unfriendly for new players. It's pure pay to win and that's a very bad thing for a pve type of game. What makes it worse is that the game is pidgeonholed into exactly two encounters that you want to chase and you need really good gear to even attempt those encounters (samael and high tier labs). It's literally the rich get richer every single season, till the death of the mod. I can't even farm stuff anymore because it feels so bad. Spending an entire day farming with nothing to show for. K3k is great, but lacks endgame rewards. Duncraig is garbage now. You need to grind fauzt a ton until you find your first knuckle or whatever and the general item drops in there are very bad anyway. Take this scenario. It's 1 month into the season, I'm broke and I need to farm some tg. Charms are no longer an option because everyone has everything. Farming very top end content like samael or dimensional keys is impossible on a non meta build. What do I do? Blindly farming duncraig for 2 days straight with probably nothing to show for or is it playing the slot machine that is umbaru treasure? Or do I grind k3k for signets until my hands bleed? Because I already did that last season and I had 10 akarats trophy by the time I was done. It was fun, for the first 20% runs or so. Can you let us have some chase items for god sake. I have seen 3 buried hawks the entire season on the market, one of which has a bugged uberskill BY THE WAY.

Personally, I don't agree with this extremely elitist design that you need to be an (quote) "absolute median xl god" to complete samael and t15 lab and I see neither do a lot of people. I believe median xl reached the point where it could afford to be a little easier due to the vast amount of content it has. People would enjoy it more, in my opinion, solely because not a lot of people like to grind endlessly on a single character and would rather reroll to something else after a period of time. Personally, I don't like to reroll if I didn't get my build through all content, meaning killing samael and completing t15. It just feels bad to throw away your current character, as if it is incomplete. Cool, let people grind lab for ladder, but don't make it so discriminating.

I do agree that bowzon has amazing clear speed, but it's mostly due to the one item, which is hellreach. It's a very good farming item, but you will struggle in lab with it, solely because you'll lose too much damage if you decide to pick paragon over spirit of vengeance, the former which synergizes very nicely with resist gems. So it's a tradeoff between damage and survivability.

Good points. I can see that every patch Median is becoming more casual friendly, and that's pretty good as Median still offer very good endgame challenge.

As I mainly do duncraig, well yes it felt less rewarding. The only good item I got is Gotter and Bilefroth's, if those are actually considered good.

But then I'm sp casul, my opinion will have less weight than the others