Stat Scaling Imbalance That Should Be Adressed

[CallMeCrazySam]

to be fair, the game isn't built around the new labyrinth, so all the people saying "my build can't do this without being a fully different setup" is rather unfair to the development. i don't necessarily agree with some of the difficulty spikes in labyrinth requiring such specific gear and socketing for max res, but to an extent, it's the challenge of the labyrinth.

The game isn't built around the lab, but they should make an effort to balance builds for the lab because the ladder is based off the experience you gain in labyrinth.

I doubt most people care the slightest bit about the ladder and I don't think balancing everything around labs is a good use of dev time. Dev for 99% of the playerbase, not the 1%.

[Pub]

to be fair, the game isn't built around the new labyrinth, so all the people saying "my build can't do this without being a fully different setup" is rather unfair to the development. i don't necessarily agree with some of the difficulty spikes in labyrinth requiring such specific gear and socketing for max res, but to an extent, it's the challenge of the labyrinth.

The game isn't built around the lab, but they should make an effort to balance builds for the lab because the ladder is based off the experience you gain in labyrinth.

I doubt most people care the slightest bit about the ladder and I don't think balancing everything around labs is a good use of dev time. Dev for 99% of the playerbase, not the 1%.

The only reason he cares about ladder is so he can resort to his usual classic crap of "I'm #1 amazon on ladder" as if it was a good argument for whatever he's talking about.

[LeQuebecois]

to be fair, the game isn't built around the new labyrinth, so all the people saying "my build can't do this without being a fully different setup" is rather unfair to the development. i don't necessarily agree with some of the difficulty spikes in labyrinth requiring such specific gear and socketing for max res, but to an extent, it's the challenge of the labyrinth.

The game isn't built around the lab, but they should make an effort to balance builds for the lab because the ladder is based off the experience you gain in labyrinth.

I doubt most people care the slightest bit about the ladder and I don't think balancing everything around labs is a good use of dev time. Dev for 99% of the playerbase, not the 1%.

True , playing for about 2 months now. Didn't dig into all ubers / end game content ..
Still working on doing fauzt / duncraigs .. tried once the t2 lab but didn't look for clearing it yet ..
New players won't hop in labs , new player will learn game basics , first uber zones and try to feel comfortable with these new bulds before trying to max it out and try labs.

[Celestialray]

to be fair, the game isn't built around the new labyrinth, so all the people saying "my build can't do this without being a fully different setup" is rather unfair to the development. i don't necessarily agree with some of the difficulty spikes in labyrinth requiring such specific gear and socketing for max res, but to an extent, it's the challenge of the labyrinth.

The game isn't built around the lab, but they should make an effort to balance builds for the lab because the ladder is based off the experience you gain in labyrinth.

I doubt most people care the slightest bit about the ladder and I don't think balancing everything around labs is a good use of dev time. Dev for 99% of the playerbase, not the 1%.

The only reason he cares about ladder is so he can resort to his usual classic crap of "I'm #1 amazon on ladder" as if it was a good argument for whatever he's talking about.

What are you talking about? Are you high or something? I only bragged on discord that I'm #1 amazon and not in a condescending or serious way. Hell, I don't even know if I'm #1 anymore since I already quit. I never backed up my arguments or my statements with ladder position. Maybe you should go back to the echo chamber that discord is and spam some kekehands or something. You're clearly disconnected from reality.

I doubt most people care the slightest bit about the ladder and I don't think balancing everything around labs is a good use of dev time. Dev for 99% of the playerbase, not the 1%.

I dare to disagree with this. What's essentially a big problem with most builds in lab is that they lack single target damage and the gameplay in t13+ definitely shifts towards using your single target damage skills (rapid wyrmshot as opposed to regular wyrmshot, nova shot as opposed to cascade etc.). If they offered some kind of reliable single target damage to classes, this would not only partially fix their performance in labs, but those builds would have an easier time at ubers that otherwise take too much to bother. One example that comes to mind is javazon. Her single target is atrocious if you don't have corpses. Lab doesn't have corpses in t9+ for some reason.

And honestly I assume I'm not the only one who thinks that some builds should be specialized on specific tasks (like farming fauzt or whatever) is a good indicator of good design. I don't know about you guys, but coming from a background with a lot of arpg experience, playing a build up to a certain point just to find out that the build is pure garbage where it should matter the most feels extremely bad (eg. level up to 140 with no problems in fauzt then hit a complete wall in yellow labs).

And you're saying dev time is not worth for the 1%? How about 0.2% or something? How many people killed deimoss? 5? What a laughable use of dev time.

[Crash]

how many people killed samael the first season it was introduced? a party of 5 players required to take him down because of the way the mechanic was on first implementation. It's a lot easier to tone an uber down and make it applicable to people compared to adding a brand new perfectly balanced and scaling one. The hard part is out of the way concerning Deimoss on their end. The same goes for labyrinth, some small tweaks might put it in a better place, but all the mapping, concept, fees, etc, all that big hard work of getting it in the game is done already.

Also, bowzon has phalanx, so big single target there, but I think you didn't use it in the guide cause Marco had to point it out at the time. Unsure if you had tested and re-added it, but its a big single target with proper aiming and spellbind.

Javazon has enfilade which actually does a very large amount of damage and hits a few times in its small nova (I think there's 6 or 8 blades?). Fairy ring is not a single target-intended skill simply because of the requirement for corpses. Most people have been trying to turn it into some kind of godsend single target because of the huge buff on the Titan jav with gallowlaugh, which is cool, but not the intended purpose of the skill. If they wanted it to be single-target focused, it wouldn't require corpses. Enfilade is quite good. Javazon's big issue is a disconnect between damage types, and Ricochet is kind of meh nowadays. I think enfilade should be made back into cold damage, how it used to be, and change fairy ring/titan's jav into cold or poison so that it syncs well with a possible build and doesn't just become another big fire wdm build. Cold and poison wdm are really dead right now besides maybe deathgaze barb. Wolf druid is becoming more of a cold wdm spec, but needs some attention still.

Anyways, the current labyrinth, again as said before, isn't built as the core focus of the game. It's an added late game challenge for people to push characters and specs. it needs tweaking, yea, but 99% of the playerbase isn't going to complete it, so why would devs make it a priority vs actual class balancing and more widespread content as priority

[LeQuebecois]

Anyways, the current labyrinth, again as said before, isn't built as the core focus of the game. It's an added late game challenge for people to push characters and specs. it needs tweaking, yea, but 99% of the playerbase isn't going to complete it, so why would devs make it a priority vs actual class balancing and more widespread content as priority

You said it : 99% of players won't do labs .. but most of awsome SSU+ drops there no ? .. so it is our concern.

[Glamdring26]

Anyways, the current labyrinth, again as said before, isn't built as the core focus of the game. It's an added late game challenge for people to push characters and specs. it needs tweaking, yea, but 99% of the playerbase isn't going to complete it, so why would devs make it a priority vs actual class balancing and more widespread content as priority

You said it : 99% of players won't do labs .. but most of awsome SSU+ drops there no ? .. so it is our concern.

You can get all of those "awasome SSU+ drops" in fautz as well. Only valuable drop from labs are Occult Effigies and charm.

Though the thread went a bit sideways, i still enjoy reading. Plaese continue

[Crash]

Only valuable drop from labs are Occult Effigies and charm.

And the effigies drop in all tiers, I believe? or starting at tier 2 with the enemy heroes? So you don't need an endgame spec to farm those, just endgame for the charm and upgrades.

[Pub]

to be fair, the game isn't built around the new labyrinth, so all the people saying "my build can't do this without being a fully different setup" is rather unfair to the development. i don't necessarily agree with some of the difficulty spikes in labyrinth requiring such specific gear and socketing for max res, but to an extent, it's the challenge of the labyrinth.

The game isn't built around the lab, but they should make an effort to balance builds for the lab because the ladder is based off the experience you gain in labyrinth.

I doubt most people care the slightest bit about the ladder and I don't think balancing everything around labs is a good use of dev time. Dev for 99% of the playerbase, not the 1%.

The only reason he cares about ladder is so he can resort to his usual classic crap of "I'm #1 amazon on ladder" as if it was a good argument for whatever he's talking about.

What are you talking about? Are you high or something? I only bragged on discord that I'm #1 amazon and not in a condescending or serious way. Hell, I don't even know if I'm #1 anymore since I already quit. I never backed up my arguments or my statements with ladder position. Maybe you should go back to the echo chamber that discord is and spam some kekehands or something. You're clearly disconnected from reality.

I doubt most people care the slightest bit about the ladder and I don't think balancing everything around labs is a good use of dev time. Dev for 99% of the playerbase, not the 1%.

I dare to disagree with this. What's essentially a big problem with most builds in lab is that they lack single target damage and the gameplay in t13+ definitely shifts towards using your single target damage skills (rapid wyrmshot as opposed to regular wyrmshot, nova shot as opposed to cascade etc.). If they offered some kind of reliable single target damage to classes, this would not only partially fix their performance in labs, but those builds would have an easier time at ubers that otherwise take too much to bother. One example that comes to mind is javazon. Her single target is atrocious if you don't have corpses. Lab doesn't have corpses in t9+ for some reason.

And honestly I assume I'm not the only one who thinks that some builds should be specialized on specific tasks (like farming fauzt or whatever) is a good indicator of good design. I don't know about you guys, but coming from a background with a lot of arpg experience, playing a build up to a certain point just to find out that the build is pure garbage where it should matter the most feels extremely bad (eg. level up to 140 with no problems in fauzt then hit a complete wall in yellow labs).

And you're saying dev time is not worth for the 1%? How about 0.2% or something? How many people killed deimoss? 5? What a laughable use of dev time.

If i had to decide between spamming memes on a discord that i hardly use or act like an edgelord like you whos a nobody dota pro who can complete poe endgame in a week from ladder reset, id be meming it up without a doubt.

But i guess im disconnected from reality, so my judgement isnt the best.

[LeQuebecois]

Anyways, the current labyrinth, again as said before, isn't built as the core focus of the game. It's an added late game challenge for people to push characters and specs. it needs tweaking, yea, but 99% of the playerbase isn't going to complete it, so why would devs make it a priority vs actual class balancing and more widespread content as priority

You said it : 99% of players won't do labs .. but most of awsome SSU+ drops there no ? .. so it is our concern.

You can get all of those "awasome SSU+ drops" in fautz as well. Only valuable drop from labs are Occult Effigies and charm.

Though the thread went a bit sideways, i still enjoy reading. Plaese continue

Thanks for that precision. I thought some SSU+ wouldnt drop at Fauzt and only in labs.