1. Crafted items can be bis and is basically rare items with an extra affix . Theoretically you can find a rare item that is better than unique and runeword, with a crafted item to take its place after weeks of crafting.
2. Limiting procs are due to logistical reasons, not design philosophy.
3. There's plenty of farming to be done per season anyway. And having simplistic runewords allows for filling stat budget with jewels which are sorely needed until late game.
4. Class specific items help with managing affix pools so you can find upgrades easier. You can actually find pretty good rare class specific items. And it is possible to remove class restrictions. It's just not worth the hassle most of the time.
5. For a character progressing from level 1 to 140, most of the play time will be after 105. And farming definitely matters at high levels. Certain enemies require specific gear sets that takes many hours to assemble.
6. Extra runes can be tossed on the ground. Gems are useful for rerolling runewords or just for survival at certain areas. And you require a large amount of jewels to get the proper stats when crafting.
7. This is wrong. See pt6
8. Most of the game is built around hunting down these new unique monsters. It's the a majority of the game once you reach Act 1 Hell.
9. You get this in the form of oskills. Which are found on many items. Limiting skill trees are mostly a way to make balancing less of a nightmare and to highlight problems with specific builds.
11. Logistical limitation.
Feedback from POV of total newbie
@Glamdring26 Clod = vanilla, Aight. Well I've feedbacked on things that kind of matter for up-to-hell difficulties. Things that I already experienced. I didn't feedback on things I didn't play though yet, like ubers. Seen some runs but haven't done them myself.
Ofcourse everyone already explained me that game only starts after hell, so my feedback is about the parts of game that... isn't even recognized as actual content here. I don't mind it. That's just new thing for me and I though those things were where median xl was lacking. I guess it wasn't the case.
About researching, yea sure I did read some guides and infos (you kinda have to considering how many options you have just for the cube), but nowhere did I found "your first 100 levels is tutorial". Now I know and I'll adjust my knowledge with this fact
Ofcourse everyone already explained me that game only starts after hell, so my feedback is about the parts of game that... isn't even recognized as actual content here. I don't mind it. That's just new thing for me and I though those things were where median xl was lacking. I guess it wasn't the case.
About researching, yea sure I did read some guides and infos (you kinda have to considering how many options you have just for the cube), but nowhere did I found "your first 100 levels is tutorial". Now I know and I'll adjust my knowledge with this fact
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Actually agree with #10. Some descriptions could use an overhaul.
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I think you might have a different perspective on things once you play through most of the endgame content, but I digress. You seem to have come in with a lot of clod sensibilities and nostalgia of sorts, which is fine, but this is a total converstion mod, at least as far as total conversion in D2 can go at this point. Some of what you have talked about, ie class restricted items, comes from a place of balance. There are some items that would be very OP on other classes if utilized properly and thus were restricted for a certain character/build.
I will say I do agree with 1, 8, and 10 to some extent.
1. Wanting to pick up and loot rares endgame, if they have the possibility of being better than crafts/sacred unqiues, would break up the loop of running around until D2 stats sees something drop and going back for it. Would be nice to have to look at loot from time to time and decide what is good/bad, keeping vs throwing, etc. Implementation of this would obviously be a nightmare from a balance standpoint and would effect the balancing of crafts/uniques, which without this path being considered and chosen, would mean to scrap a lot of work that has already gone into the mod. In a perfect world, this would be nice, but alas, here we are.
8. Less generic mobs/act bosses would be a cool idea scaling on difficulty, the only issue is, "vanilla" content is a very small part of the game. It would be cool is act bosses did get stronger, but you only see these guys once a difficulty and in my opinion wouldn't be worth the dev time, why not make more endgame content, that this mod is known for?
10. Having everything accessible in game would be a dream of mine: docs, information, d2stats (ingame though), etc. That probably won't happen for a long time, but with the character gui rework I'd imagine it's in the roadmap somewhere. Although with skill tooltips, when you hover the skill, it tells you what it actually does below the description. Does this mean they are perfect, no, but they are usable in the current state.
As far as "the game starts at hell" concept, this is very true once you learn how to play the game. The issue that OP is addressing, that everyone seems to be glossing over and ignoring, is looking at those first 100 levels as a total noob. There is a lot of new things to figure out and the game could hold your hand more. This has been addressed with items like Arcane Crystals having a description, getting them as a quest reward as well as Akara's Robes, but more new player QoL would definitely be welcome. Should dev time be spent on it? That's debatable.
That being said, new player QoL would benefit most from new player feedback. Vets have no idea how it would be to get into the game now and can't really comment on it except from an abstract point of view.
I will say I do agree with 1, 8, and 10 to some extent.
1. Wanting to pick up and loot rares endgame, if they have the possibility of being better than crafts/sacred unqiues, would break up the loop of running around until D2 stats sees something drop and going back for it. Would be nice to have to look at loot from time to time and decide what is good/bad, keeping vs throwing, etc. Implementation of this would obviously be a nightmare from a balance standpoint and would effect the balancing of crafts/uniques, which without this path being considered and chosen, would mean to scrap a lot of work that has already gone into the mod. In a perfect world, this would be nice, but alas, here we are.
8. Less generic mobs/act bosses would be a cool idea scaling on difficulty, the only issue is, "vanilla" content is a very small part of the game. It would be cool is act bosses did get stronger, but you only see these guys once a difficulty and in my opinion wouldn't be worth the dev time, why not make more endgame content, that this mod is known for?
10. Having everything accessible in game would be a dream of mine: docs, information, d2stats (ingame though), etc. That probably won't happen for a long time, but with the character gui rework I'd imagine it's in the roadmap somewhere. Although with skill tooltips, when you hover the skill, it tells you what it actually does below the description. Does this mean they are perfect, no, but they are usable in the current state.
As far as "the game starts at hell" concept, this is very true once you learn how to play the game. The issue that OP is addressing, that everyone seems to be glossing over and ignoring, is looking at those first 100 levels as a total noob. There is a lot of new things to figure out and the game could hold your hand more. This has been addressed with items like Arcane Crystals having a description, getting them as a quest reward as well as Akara's Robes, but more new player QoL would definitely be welcome. Should dev time be spent on it? That's debatable.
That being said, new player QoL would benefit most from new player feedback. Vets have no idea how it would be to get into the game now and can't really comment on it except from an abstract point of view.
Edited by CallMeCrazySam 4 years.
Be nice everyone.
clod is classic diablo 2, unmodded d2
And about your feedback.
1 and 2: Rings and Amulets can make for very good rares. For the rest, they're used as bases for crafting; which tbh crafts fill the function of D2 rares. That said I would love for some rare-only bases that could compete with crafteds, uniques and other endgame gear.
3: Clod RW and Rune drops system doesnt really translate well into MXL. Lots of runes are used as common socket fillers so they cant be rarer; and having multiple rune RWs would mean sacrificing jewel slots for no real reason (tough this is used to balance some of the higher end runewords). The RWs where you need multiples of one rune are because that rune is a special drop from an uber so you need to farm enough of them for the runeword.
4: Subjective, a lot of people find that class only items bring extra identity to the class. As for lore, MXL is based off the Diablo novels mostly, so they do fit the lore, altough yeah they wont make much sense if you come from D2.
5: Sacred uniques cannot be created. ACs are meant to give you easy access to tiered uniques so they remain relevant without it having to rain uniques so you can actually use them where they are meant to be used (early game). So yeah it is true that for normal and nightmare you gearing choices can feel limited; but dont worry once you get to hell ubers you will be forced to use more variation and actually dabbling into Mystic Orbs, Sockets and gear other than uniques.
6: Rings and Amulet crafting could be unbalanced considering we had rare jewelry reroll in the past and it had to be taken out. Rare amulets and rings can be disgustingly good with proper rolls. For the rest, current crafts work exactly as you say they should; with the expection of the recipe, which just uses Shrines rather than some random reagents. You dont have to hoard every single rune and gem you find unlike clod, and I think this is a good thing personally.
7: Gems are widely used, pdiamonds in weapon for casters, %att gems, resist gems, and a lot more.
8: This would be a very good idea if MXL's gameplay was just running through the acts 3 times like clod was. However MXL has a whole endgame different from this so this just isnt needed, as instead of fighting the same mobs with some new abilities; in hell you will fight entirely new mobs altoguether. Normal and NM could use more differences tho other than just bigger density and numbers.
9: Main issue here is balancing.
10: Yeah some descs could be better.
11: Charm stacker is an idea that frequently pops up, but is sadly limited due to numerous caps on number of stats, and the value of the stats that a single item can have. ''Consuming'' a charm also seems like a nightmare to implement. Other than these limitations, I dont see the need. We have a way bigger inventory and full charms only fills 4 rows I think?. As for the potions, people carry a lot only because some ubers, mainly Dimensional Labyrinth have a lockdown so you cannot go back to town to refill if you run out of them.
And also, theres no torch or small medium large charms anymore. Only unique charms that you get from the Challenges, and then the bosses at rifts or dungeons. Cycles are the closest thing but those are also from an uber and do actually use this charm stacker mechanic but its pretty limited since the charm cant have too many stats or it starts causing technical issues.
deothor wrote:what is clod
clod is classic diablo 2, unmodded d2
And about your feedback.
1 and 2: Rings and Amulets can make for very good rares. For the rest, they're used as bases for crafting; which tbh crafts fill the function of D2 rares. That said I would love for some rare-only bases that could compete with crafteds, uniques and other endgame gear.
3: Clod RW and Rune drops system doesnt really translate well into MXL. Lots of runes are used as common socket fillers so they cant be rarer; and having multiple rune RWs would mean sacrificing jewel slots for no real reason (tough this is used to balance some of the higher end runewords). The RWs where you need multiples of one rune are because that rune is a special drop from an uber so you need to farm enough of them for the runeword.
4: Subjective, a lot of people find that class only items bring extra identity to the class. As for lore, MXL is based off the Diablo novels mostly, so they do fit the lore, altough yeah they wont make much sense if you come from D2.
5: Sacred uniques cannot be created. ACs are meant to give you easy access to tiered uniques so they remain relevant without it having to rain uniques so you can actually use them where they are meant to be used (early game). So yeah it is true that for normal and nightmare you gearing choices can feel limited; but dont worry once you get to hell ubers you will be forced to use more variation and actually dabbling into Mystic Orbs, Sockets and gear other than uniques.
6: Rings and Amulet crafting could be unbalanced considering we had rare jewelry reroll in the past and it had to be taken out. Rare amulets and rings can be disgustingly good with proper rolls. For the rest, current crafts work exactly as you say they should; with the expection of the recipe, which just uses Shrines rather than some random reagents. You dont have to hoard every single rune and gem you find unlike clod, and I think this is a good thing personally.
7: Gems are widely used, pdiamonds in weapon for casters, %att gems, resist gems, and a lot more.
8: This would be a very good idea if MXL's gameplay was just running through the acts 3 times like clod was. However MXL has a whole endgame different from this so this just isnt needed, as instead of fighting the same mobs with some new abilities; in hell you will fight entirely new mobs altoguether. Normal and NM could use more differences tho other than just bigger density and numbers.
9: Main issue here is balancing.
10: Yeah some descs could be better.
11: Charm stacker is an idea that frequently pops up, but is sadly limited due to numerous caps on number of stats, and the value of the stats that a single item can have. ''Consuming'' a charm also seems like a nightmare to implement. Other than these limitations, I dont see the need. We have a way bigger inventory and full charms only fills 4 rows I think?. As for the potions, people carry a lot only because some ubers, mainly Dimensional Labyrinth have a lockdown so you cannot go back to town to refill if you run out of them.
And also, theres no torch or small medium large charms anymore. Only unique charms that you get from the Challenges, and then the bosses at rifts or dungeons. Cycles are the closest thing but those are also from an uber and do actually use this charm stacker mechanic but its pretty limited since the charm cant have too many stats or it starts causing technical issues.
Edited by Seekers 4 years.
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deothor wrote:@Glamdring26 Clod = vanilla, Aight. Well I've feedbacked on things that kind of matter for up-to-hell difficulties. Things that I already experienced. I didn't feedback on things I didn't play though yet, like ubers. Seen some runs but haven't done them myself.
Ofcourse everyone already explained me that game only starts after hell, so my feedback is about the parts of game that... isn't even recognized as actual content here. I don't mind it. That's just new thing for me and I though those things were where median xl was lacking. I guess it wasn't the case.
About researching, yea sure I did read some guides and infos (you kinda have to considering how many options you have just for the cube), but nowhere did I found "your first 100 levels is tutorial". Now I know and I'll adjust my knowledge with this fact
The fact is, experiencing doesnt really qualify someone to give feedback. You can experience something, but you might miss the facts behind it. For example you said rare items are bad, in reality rare items are one of the best items in the game in crafted form. Or your comment about gems being useless, while in reality people use them for the hardest content in the game, rifts. So yeah experiencing something doesnt necessarily mean you know that stuff to give feedback to. You gotta LEARN first.
People say before hell is basically a tutorial, and its true, but it doesnt mean that its irrelevant. Even the latest patch tried to change some of that. So yeah devs care about early game(from normal to hell) but most of your comments are just false statements. So your feedback is does not qualify in that sense.
On another note, docs is your best friend. The guides might be misinformative sometimes, so always check documentation and ask people around to answer your questions, especially discord server. Be careful that they are not "obliged" to answer your questions, but they do because they are helpful people. So dont get mad if they dnot answer your question, try again in another time.
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The one thing I’ll agree with is the rare item point.
It would be really cool to see more O-skills floating around on rates. I wanna see a multitude of build options open up and itemization expanded beyond 1-2 BiS SU’s.
Carnage on a rare Amazon/Druid helm, etc...
I feel like this could really pay dividends for the longevity of seasons as people would spend more time grinding out rares and experimenting witch different combinations.
Also, it would add an interesting element to the TG economy.
It would be really cool to see more O-skills floating around on rates. I wanna see a multitude of build options open up and itemization expanded beyond 1-2 BiS SU’s.
Carnage on a rare Amazon/Druid helm, etc...
I feel like this could really pay dividends for the longevity of seasons as people would spend more time grinding out rares and experimenting witch different combinations.
Also, it would add an interesting element to the TG economy.
Primarch wrote:The one thing I’ll agree with is the rare item point.
It would be really cool to see more O-skills floating around on rates. I wanna see a multitude of build options open up and itemization expanded beyond 1-2 BiS SU’s.
Carnage on a rare Amazon/Druid helm, etc...
I feel like this could really pay dividends for the longevity of seasons as people would spend more time grinding out rares and experimenting witch different combinations.
Also, it would add an interesting element to the TG economy.
Majority of people won't play normal builds unless there's a guide or video of it doing endgame