Σ 1.6 Bugs&Feedback

Discuss Median XL!
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cowking
Onyx Knight
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OnlyForFun wrote:I like when we with mahi trying to make content and create videos on hardcore, killing bosses etc, being on top of ladder and after that there still players who will say those words, and dislike you :(


Arguing build viability from the perspective of HC in a mod designed around softcore is monumentally fucking stupid, and you have to be thiggg to not realize that.

OnlyForFun wrote:bowzon? yes its run fast shoot STRONK, but well where defence? 0 def 0avoid any defence mechanic? Show me in ladder any high level bowzon with less then 200 deaths?


200 deaths is literally the prerequisite to get good.
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OnlyForFun
Azure Drake
167 | 13
Well it was before, when there was alot one shot mechanics, why do you think sigma started changind that?

isnt sb said somewhere here before
suchbalance wrote:First, Samael & Deimoss/high Labs are content made to challenge hardcore players, and be hard for min-maxed characters.


I understand there alot builds that lack layers of defence/avoid/block/dodge etc and for them the only way is killing bosses with bodies, and lets be honest, its not normal at all, isnt we trying to change that? adding lockroom on bosses, healing them etc?
Diaco
Daystar
670 | 17
OnlyForFun wrote:Well it was before, when there was alot one shot mechanics, why do you think sigma started changind that?

isnt sb said somewhere here before
suchbalance wrote:First, Samael & Deimoss/high Labs are content made to challenge hardcore players, and be hard for min-maxed characters.


I understand there alot builds that lack layers of defence/avoid/block/dodge etc and for them the only way is killing bosses with bodies, and lets be honest, its not normal at all, isnt we trying to change that? adding lockroom on bosses, healing them etc?


he meant hardcore players as in people that play a lot and are very knowledgeable on the game, not as in "hardcore mode".
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cowking
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By hardcore he meant the most experienced and tryhard 0.1% of the player base who will use tg to min-max the shit out of their gear with UMOs etc.

The only sane argument you've made in this thread is that the gap between meta & non-meta builds is too big, but even this can be highly contested as it's subjective and often boils down to player error (can't do boss x with build y which is very often false) or plain laziness and/or retarded ladder rush tg mentality which really is your problem to deal with. I really don't want to dig in your overblown arguments but ok.

Practical example, I'm playing a pure oskill character that leveled with merc only to lvl 77 until I got access to my oskill, got completely raped by dunc at 120 (which you say is the point where you know a build is good or not) and jday upgrade seemed hopeless (wasn't even doing it properly as understanding how to do it properly takes at least 20 deaths usually), baal was at 50% hp after lockout.

Ran nihlathak for 400 sigs, grinded dcows for 2 days for shrines to get what I needed, proceeded to farm dunc/fauzt/toraja/bremm and I have no doubt this build can do 95% of the content with gear that is essentially free in terms of tg which I don't even use as this character is self-found only.

If this build was so strong you could make it work without sigs and proper gear, it would be completely OP and remove any difficulty from the game as well as remove the pleasure of actually playing this character from "I don't think this is going to work" into farming fauzt without giving a shit. Is this what you want? At best you could give it a miniature buff to make it farm a bit faster. Probably easier to nerf the OP builds to level farming speed with slower farmers (which ultimately is the real test of validity) but then players start to cry which they're doing already (eg. you're crying about bowazons lol).

Now this was a pure self-found o-skill example of a build that existed in name only in ultimative (I never saw one online). Then you say things like this...

OnlyForFun wrote:There should not exist builds that are enabled after buying sacred items to work there should be proper transition between early game to mid game to start farming uniques/shrines to make your way to endgame (exept oskills/craft etc) (we are talking about builds which uses their own skills) And i like to hear just farm AC/Sig and sell them, well what you will say to players that play in SP?


The transition exists and has always existed. It's grinding nihlathak for 400 sigs and then farming shrines in dcows/k3k (or TA for SU) until your build can progress through dunc and get advanced charms and gear.

Most players want to skip the phase entirely and skip straight to end-game dunc/fauzt farm and build is bad if it doesn't happen in day one after reset. You sound like one of those players. If a build does that then you cry the ladder ended after one week and SU has no tg value grrr.

Then the devs added more end game content like labs designed for ultra maxed out chars and then you still cry cuz build x can't farm labs as easy as build y and then cry some more when build y gets nerfed because you cried about it.

All the while you say you only care about 95% of content in terms of build viability (specifically leaving laz out of that percentile), while making balance arguments pertaining to 5% charms and laz (sb's bloodzon laz kill).

OnlyForFun wrote:alot of classes/builds dont have even chance to be close to "meta" builds, most of them even not working, there was made alot of changes in skills, damage formulas that killed most of builds, no early/mid game items for "new" skills most of time its half of gear honorifics and in midgame shrine crafting, but its extremely hard to craft if your build cant even farm -_-)


So which characters and native skill trees can't farm nihlathak for signets (with proper T4+honorific gear MOed to level cap along with merc that can also apply ~40% slow if required) and then do dcows / k3k / TA and progress through dunc? Be specific and I'm sure the devs will try to fix it eventually.

OnlyForFun wrote:This is true, but gap between meta and non-meta builds is way too large. As you said you can complete 95% of the content with majority of builds, but amount of time/nerves spent compared to meta builds makes it not worth and very unrewarding/annoying to play.


Again, the only sane subjective argument you've made in this thread, and it only applies from the viewpoint of competitive tg rush in a non-competitive game, which is a very poor standpoint for balance discussion tbh and massively influenced by trade.

Mommy mommy, that pala can start farming dunc 4 days earlier after reset and does it 30% faster.... jesus fuck me. Go play wow or some other shit game like d3.

You have given LITERALLY ZERO specifics regarding what needs fixing, why and how (except maybe some TUs for certain skills). And I'm pretty fucking sure it's not bloodzon or caster druid.
Edited by cowking 8 months.
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OnlyForFun
Azure Drake
167 | 13
How many times i did point out that we talking about regular builds and not about oskills?

ok wanna challenge, try to play 2 builds

1. Light/cold sorc
2. Pounce zon

Do both of them SSF(NO GEAR TRADE/SHARE) run to 120 killing all ubers
Return and say something about difference in 10%

IF POUNCE ZON WILL PERFORM BETTER I PAY YOU 1000 TG, just make video
Diaco
Daystar
670 | 17
OnlyForFun wrote:How many times i did point out that we talking about regular builds and not about oskills?

ok wanna challenge, try to play 2 builds

1. Light/cold sorc
2. Pounce zon

Do both of them SSF(NO GEAR TRADE/SHARE) run to 120 killing all ubers
Return and say something about difference in 10%

IF POUNCE ZON WILL PERFORM BETTER I PAY YOU 1000 TG, just make video


why would you leave oskills specifically out, when they are as non-meta as it gets? and how does comparing two very different builds on how fast they can farm one specific map on a very specific situation (ssf, no trade, rush to 120) say anything about a build? It's like me saying "do the 30 sec bremmtown trophy with pouncezon and light/cold sorc and return" to argue that pouncezon is way better than light/cold sorc. different builds have different strengths and weaknesses and that's how it should be.
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OnlyForFun
Azure Drake
167 | 13
Ye guys i didn't even think how hard would be explain, mahitovec was right, only videos and nothing else

Do you guys even read text? Am trying to say level progression of builds have so big difference, so one has literally 0 problem destroying all content, when others need insane investments to even work

Why not oskills? because its require special gear/craft to work that why we talking only about builds which should work from start

Tell me how its should work having pounce on 24 lvl char with 60 mana cost, with 375 mana ;)
► Show Spoiler
Edited by OnlyForFun 8 months.
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cowking
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Diaco wrote:why would you leave oskills specifically out, when they are as non-meta as it gets?


It does make sense in that native trees are supposed to be more balanced/viable than oskills.

OnlyForFun wrote:ok wanna challenge, try to play 2 builds

1. Light/cold sorc
2. Pounce zon

Do both of them SSF(NO GEAR TRADE/SHARE) run to 120 killing all ubers
Return and say something about difference in 10%

IF POUNCE ZON WILL PERFORM BETTER I PAY YOU 1000 TG, just make video


A.) I never claimed pouncezon performs better than LC sorc so I don't understand your challenge, I was basically arguing to the contrary with these competitive rush ladder comparisons @ hitting lvl 120

B.) Wouldn't it be a lot easier (if you've already played a pounce zon) to post in this thread exactly what's wrong with it, along with practical examples of you failing to make it work even with GTO play/innovation after 400 sigs & proper gearing along with mentions of the multitudes of alternatives you're tried to make it work. Eg. if a tree is well and truly mechanically garbage without salvation, post exactly what's wrong with it since you should have that understanding as a 10 yo player after playing it with max effort. Personally I haven't played pouncezon in ages because I've never liked pounce and it's clones. That way it might actually lead to a change instead of just complaining about "meta" blabla mahi left game GG.

You expecting a team of two(?) in a mod to have GTO understanding of every build at every stage of the game is pretty unreasonable.
Edited by cowking 8 months.
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OnlyForFun
Azure Drake
167 | 13
Just go and try to play it, you will feel everything what am talking about, enjoy your great hunt build ;)

They have balance team, its not only 2 persons, they well expirianced players, and they definetly know how 95% of regulars builds played to level 120
But i dont understand why they dont change mechanics so all builds had at least good start, or maybe they dont want to see it :|
CallMeCrazySam
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OnlyForFun wrote:Just go and try to play it, you will feel everything what am talking about, enjoy your great hunt build ;)

They have balance team, its not only 2 persons, they well expirianced players, and they definetly know how 95% of regulars builds played to level 120
But i dont understand why they dont change mechanics so all builds had at least good start, or maybe they dont want to see it :|


So who is actually on the "balance" team?