Σ 1.6 Bugs&Feedback

Judging by the last few pages the game is in perfect state than ever balance wise. This level of arguments does not withstand any critique, personally I can't see any solid proofs neither well thought analysis in there. You might be not that wrong but your reasons are close to nonexistent, do you really think that your beloved (or despised) devs are that retarded? They can chew you up and spit you down like it was nothing - that's how insignificant your arguments are, you might as well go tilting at windmills at that point, it would be more productive for sure.

CallMeCrazySam wrote:So who is actually on the "balance" team?

Its secret information, cant tell anything about it sorry

SwineFlu wrote: They can chew you up and spit you down like it was nothing

They already did to one guy here, which had his opinion about balance, his account got deleted, if its will happend to me, well i was trying at least change something

SwineFlu wrote:Judging by the last few pages the game is in perfect state than ever balance wise.

Um maybe the mod is balanced more than ever however this statement is just not true. The stats don't lie there are still many classes which are not pushing into the level 140 range and have a very small distribution of players.

Druid and Barbarian has been suffering overall and at the same time has very small amount of representation in the level 140-150 range meaning they are stuck unable to level effectively past duncraig/teganze.

There are also a few classes which never get into the 145+ level range meaning that they simply are not Lab-friendly. While it might be doable no one wants to play a necromancer in T13-T15 rifts as it is simply not safe nor efficient.

You can also infer a lot of other issues like the amount of Paladins on the ladder and in the 140-150 range meaning it's the most player-friendly character. This is pretty obvious if you simply looked at the Paladin spec.

On the other hand just based on observation I'm going to assume somewhere between 50-80% of Assassin players are playing ATMG sentry. I believe that they should bring back the build statistics for the seasons as they give a more detailed look into the state of balance than overall player counts ever could. I'm not sure whether they stopped because they didn't want to update the code or because the stats were too skewed.

Ekital wrote:Um maybe the mod is balanced more than ever however this statement is just not true. The stats don't lie there are still many classes which are not pushing into the level 140 range and have a very small distribution of players.

It was a sarcastic remark, my point is that general balance feedback should be delivered with solid proofs and even then there is no guarantee that it won't be completely ignored. As for the stats, these graphs only show me how popular some builds (classes) were comparing with the others and how unoriginal and dull player base for this mod is. I'm not trying to argue about balance issues, I need to play the game by myself to form an opinion in that regard and this mod has lost its charm for me way before Sigma release.

Ekital wrote:
SwineFlu wrote:I believe that they should bring back the build statistics for the seasons as they give a more detailed look into the state of balance than overall player counts ever could.

Oh i forgot even about statistics, but if they can do ^ in future, its definetly will help to find out which builds unpopular/notworking/etc and should recieve buff/rework/etc

OnlyForFun wrote:ok wanna challenge, try to play 2 builds

1. Light/cold sorc
2. Pounce zon

Do both of them SSF(NO GEAR TRADE/SHARE) run to 120 killing all ubers
Return and say something about difference in 10%

I mean, of course one will perform better, since it has been revised and buffed in the last 3 patches while the other still hasn't been touched. Caster sorc had atrocious problems and playrate just some patches ago too.
Sigma is not an already finished product, more like a constant work in progress, that's also why tierlist exists. You can't pretend devs to magically fix every build in one patch, expecially if some of them need complete reworks.
And this is coming from someone who memes about bowdruid everyday on discord channel.

Ekital wrote:I'm not sure whether they stopped because they didn't want to update the code or because the stats were too skewed.

Second option. Stats didn't correctly match the build all the time.

Ekital wrote:
SwineFlu wrote:Judging by the last few pages the game is in perfect state than ever balance wise.

Um maybe the mod is balanced more than ever however this statement is just not true. The stats don't lie there are still many classes which are not pushing into the level 140 range and have a very small distribution of players.

Druid and Barbarian has been suffering overall and at the same time has very small amount of representation in the level 140-150 range meaning they are stuck unable to level effectively past duncraig/teganze.

There are also a few classes which never get into the 145+ level range meaning that they simply are not Lab-friendly. While it might be doable no one wants to play a necromancer in T13-T15 rifts as it is simply not safe nor efficient.

You can also infer a lot of other issues like the amount of Paladins on the ladder and in the 140-150 range meaning it's the most player-friendly character. This is pretty obvious if you simply looked at the Paladin spec.

On the other hand just based on observation I'm going to assume somewhere between 50-80% of Assassin players are playing ATMG sentry. I believe that they should bring back the build statistics for the seasons as they give a more detailed look into the state of balance than overall player counts ever could. I'm not sure whether they stopped because they didn't want to update the code or because the stats were too skewed.

while you have a point on some classes being more popular than others, this does not necessarily mean they desperately need buffs. For instance S24 has had videos showing both druid and barbs killing Samael, and even a 100% solo deimoss kill with druid werewolf. Are they harder builds to effectively pull off? probably. Are they trash? definitely not

Diaco wrote:while you have a point on some classes being more popular than others, this does not necessarily mean they desperately need buffs. For instance S24 has had videos showing both druid and barbs killing Samael, and even a 100% solo deimoss kill with druid werewolf. Are they harder builds to effectively pull off? probably. Are they trash? definitely not

It's not about being able to kill Samael or Deimoss, many builds can if you invest that much TG and have knowledge about the game.

The issue right now stems from many builds right now just hitting progression walls either at around 120 or 135 that are extremely hard to break out of without investment. For example as a Barbarian I can only think of two builds that don't hit a progression wall: Summon barb and Warcry Barb. 2H Barb can do some of the content however it falls behind once you hit 120 and then once again at 135. Now for example Shuriken sin, even with great gear it's ability to do content past 120 is severely limited, with Fauzt being a nightmare to run and being extremely squishy even in Duncraig. This is with basically BiS mind you, if you were trying to dunc with limited/crafted gear it would be a nightmare.

The reason that the Paladin stats are so skewed is simple: it never falls behind and can do all content (At least Unholy/Neutraldin specs, can't say the same for Holy).

Watching the thread closely and I'm noticing each day more and more players keep saying that the mod had lost its charm since version X or how it was far more balanced then, etc. How about opening a thread and pointing them one by one with solid and objective opinions like how once the features were any better than now and compare them with the current fangs and arrows? Maybe that helps the dev team to realise what they had been through gone unnoticed.

There is 1 simple reason why barbs, specifically melee barbs are unpopular: stances on right click. Just big nono. Played it once, never again. And deathgaze barb doesnt hit a wall at 120, progresses just fine beyond that with minimal investment.