Loaded, Comprehensive Feedback on Median XL S25 and Onwards

Discuss Median XL!
inori92
Pit Knight
113 | 28
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Patron Badge
Patreon Contributor
Great Auction Badge
Won 200 auctions
Every season, I debate whether I should invest the time to address my passion and enjoyment for this game, which has greatly overhauled the game of Diablo 2. I wrote this post several seasons ago, some of you might still remember it - viewtopic.php?t=39917 - the game has obviously developed more since then, but I feel that, one last time, I want to properly share my personal feedback as I believe it offers a very important perspective on the average gamer that this game exists to draw. This was written over the course of a few days, but cumulates my thoughts for months - yes, I care about this game despite being bad at it, because I believe this game is great, but it can be much better, for a larger player base.

So for a proper introduction this time, I play video games professionally - more specifically, I coach professional teams in the MOBA genre of game (League of Legends is the most popular, but that's not my game). Though I am not a developer, my job requires me to break down and analyze games in different ways, but as most of you here, I've just been gaming all my life. Coincidentally, the game I work with also has a lot of problems sustaining "newblood" player base, and is often riddled with complaints regarding the new player experiences and whatnot. Anyways, this is just to shed light on why I might have these opinions that I have, to be listed below. I will try to keep it concise, but be ready for a long read. I like to illustrate my points thoroughly.

So, where to begin...



Goal and Purpose of Median XL



a)
People play games for enjoyment, for entertainment, to pass the time. COVID hits, and MXL rushes release a week early because the developers understand that people will have the time to play. It all makes sense. However, what still doesn't make sense for me, is the direction and progressive development through a season. Often times, seasons in gaming are competitive. Nevermind the design, in Median, there is very little of that to begin with.

Image

In season 25, for the first time, I saw t4v, a player who I understand to be not affiliated with MXL, but a beast at the game, post this viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54232 - a giveaway for some hallmark achievements in a MXL season. Why isn't Game Dev hosting this? But more importantly, look at the names dominating the leaderboards. Multi-year veterans, some of the best players at this game, and will continue to be because they have access to the experience and information that casuals and scrubs like myself simply don't. There isn't much fun here, outside-looking-in this looks like a presidential dinner with Trump and his cronies - just a group of elite that don't care much about the outside. I personally don't care about this much, congratulations to the winners, they did what they should; but if I was MXL, I would host these events and rule out moderators and elite members from winning, for starters. Reward your majority player base more.

b)
So, let's talk about community and livelihood in MXL.
► Show Spoiler

In my honest opinion, MXL has stagnated. It's not dying, but it's not growing either. Everyone has heard of the phrase, "is the glass half full of half empty?", this is essentially the difference. Sure, the season-end stats don't indicate a drop, but bear in mind that most of those season-end players are returning ones from the previous season, and ones even before that - such as myself. Last season, I had 4 characters above level 120, but I already quit by the 20th day of the season. I contributed to 4 of 800 high level characters just by myself, and I didn't play for more than 20% of the season. Remember this video?

MXL Sigma Trailer

As a fanatic nerd over Diablo 2, this trailer was one of the best things younger me ever saw. This was my sliced bread. This video is just short of 1 million views, and I contributed to about, at least 20 of them. Remember MXL Sigma release, anyone? 4000+ concurrent players straight, for 3 days. Then, the dip begins - not all due to the fault of development, the game is not easy and not for everyone - but the end result is, for the last few seasons, MXL has stabilized to about 800-1000 strong concurrent for the first 3 days, and now, just short of 2 weeks into ladder, we're down to about 500-700 concurrent. I myself am also on my way out, so what does that leave for next week, and the last week of the first month into the season? It won't be higher, and it won't be the same, that's all I know. Why is that? I'd like to share my thoughts on some of the potentials, encompassing what limits the game of MXL beyond its' engine and confinements to Diablo 2.



Leveling



I want to shy away from the idea that MXL is D2 or whatever. It's a completely different game, much more enhanced in my opinion. I don't think I can ever go back to D2 after experiencing the explosive power growth and items of MXL. I don't want to. But much like the various facets in life, game design also shares common ground in what works, and what doesn't. A seasonal D2 reset right now might start weaker than MXL, but in its' 6 month resets, it retains a greater % of the initial player base, and has even more people tuning in mid-season. For me, that goes back to the Goal and Purpose - the longevity of a game's season is determined by the play ability and the player-base itself. I feel that MXL doesn't touch upon these topics as well as it could, with Leveling as the core component.

Leveling in MXL is simple, at least for most of the experienced player-base. You play the game out until 105. Then, you go to Island of the Sunless Sea for 105-110. Then cows 110-115. K3K 115-120. Dunc 120-125, or for most players, 120-135 because they won't be ready for Fauzt/Bremm. Finally, they Fauzt/Bremm until 140. I believe that for about a good 50-80% of your player/character base (I don't know numbers), the game ends here. No matter what you think about this, whether it's the fault of the scrubs or some other external circumstance, this is something that needs to be understood, and addressed from a development perspective.

For me, "leveling grind" doesn't exist in MXL. You hit very strict walls in the "endgame" which I would say begins with rifts / dungeons, and the REAL endgame begins at Duncraig - where SSU's can first start to drop. But one of the things that warped into success for D2, was its' leveling features, and the "endless" grind it provided. For anyone who read my previous posts about MXL such as linked at the top, you may have read how I feel about it, so I will try to keep this short. In D2, when a player inevitably gets bored with a certain activity, they will hit up a baal run. They will go in there, and if they are level 90, they know that they might need to commit to about 2-3 hrs of Baal runs, to get to the next level without losing efficiency (dying and losing exp, pvp, etc.) Experience, and the knowledge of the milestones of growth, return for your time invested - this is all somewhat economical, but I am sure most of us are old enough to understand "Opportunity - Cost". Despite the diminishing returns, being higher levels matter to people. On MXL, it really doesn't. I have suggested before to raise the level cap to 160, raise the amount of Labyrinth levels to 20 and distribute the difficulty suitably while making Level 20 about ~15% harder than the current level 15. I have suggested Fautz/Bremm to give experience until 145, but require a large number of runs to achieve it. Hundreds, maybe even per level. But the most important thing about leveling that I want to point out, is not just leveling in a SP experience, but taking full advantage of the multiplayer lobbies that undoubtedly make both the original game, and this MXL mod, popular still to this day.



Multiplayer Incentives



Multiplayer is the concept that really depresses me the most about Median. No matter the time of the season, more than 50% of the player base is in their own lobbies, doing their own thing. That's fine, so why don't you just play single player? Well, there's the market, for one, a very integral part of item-hunting multiplayer games is the economy. The other is obviously competition, which I addressed earlier - MXL could encourage that element more. But what I feel really hurts the potential growth or longevity of this game, is really the fact that there is almost no multiplayer support in MXL. As I said in my last thread, one reason I never attempt to join public lobbies is because I don't know where they are hosted. Sometimes I am playing at 9pm EST, and the South-East Asia player base will have woken up and begun grinding - what would I accomplish joining any public party hosted in SEA, where I have 300 ping? I would immediately leave. There are no indicators - no GS ## or Server:USA or any other way - to let a player know that, this is a lobby he can play, or this is a lobby he should avoid.

If you somehow bypass the desolate state of the casual player base, then you run into the problems of multiplayer bonuses. Again, opportunity-cost comes into play. If I am a level 140 Vessel-din, why would I ever play with another level 140 player to clear Dunc or Fauzt, where we have to split maybe ~50% more drops, among two players? We don't even get EXP, what's the point? For the last 5 season resets, I played with a group the same core of 4-5 players, and every single one of us are in private lobbies after 5 days. Why? Simply because it's way more efficient. One guy wants to farm Trophy frags, another guy wants to live in Dunc because it's the most profitable thing in the game by far, guys like me want to sit in Fauztinville for a week to get a chance at the first SSSU, before attempting Labs. And the one guy that wants to push Labs, well he's also farming, or he buys 12
Zann Esu's Stone
Zann Esu's Stone
Jewel

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 115
Can be Inserted into Socketed Items
5% Cast Speed
+3% to Spell Damage
Maximum [Random Elemental] Resist +1%
so he doesn't get 1-shot. My source of disappointment in all of this is that, almost everything you want to do in this game, is better to do alone, than with someone else, because the 50% hp growth per player on monsters, 0 EXP gain on real endgame content, and the ~40-50% increased drop chance - the combined effort of these three primary factors, lead to inferior efficiency and quite frankly, pointlessness, regarding multiplayer content. I vaguely recall the EXP scaling buff this patch, something about 5 players in lobby to take advantage of the full 8 player effect. Why not implement similar changes to monster HP % and/or drop rates?

Currently, I understand that 3 players in a lobby without being near each other, creates a players:2 effect for drops. So, if I am alone in Fauzt, and I have two friends clearing Dunc, right now my Fauzt monsters are at 200% HP, while giving me only ~40% increased drop rate. This doesn't seem proportionally correct. And I understand that tweaking these numbers a bit might seem scary, but really, is there a need to make players feel punished and losing efficiency for trying to enjoy the game with others? Call me crazy, but I think the game should actually PROMOTE mp lobbies, make it so drop rates are way higher with more players, put a solid limit on it so it can't be abused, but reward them the same. You know, if having more players gave better efficiency and benefits for farming, or even EXP an attainable goal after 140 for multiplayer games, I can guarantee you that you will have a larger player base just for that. I know that, at least, of my personal 8-man reset group, at least 3 would still be going strong, instead of just me. Because we would actually be playing together, because we would feel rewarded instead of losing value for trying to do things as a group.



Documentation



So, if I had to narrow down my three biggest gripes with MXL, the former two would be the listed above - the MP Incentives, and Leveling. Those things sadden me, but what disappoints me and makes me mad even, is the documentation, or lack-there-of for the multitude of features on this game, which only continue to expand with every passing season.
Image
I could not have said it better myself. Timeless quote, I didn't even do anything to extract it, I was just asking questions about Spearzon in the Discord. Here are some personal examples though, going from "small offenders" to "why do you do/not do this" regarding documentation.

a)
Several seasons ago when Voice of Arreat was released with War Cry, I am sure that I was the most geared Barbarian in existence to try making the build work. Double Oris' Herald scepters at the time, Nat's Deception pre-nerf, etc. and I couldn't get strong value out of the build. It felt slow, clunky, had no left click support for War Cry if I remember correctly also, which means stances were not the best with it at the time. It's received due parity since then, and so much to the point where War Cry had to receive a small nerf this patch. The point being is, upon release, there was literally no information I could get about it anywhere, unless I found the item and equipped it on my Barbarian and invest multiple belladonas to tinker with skillpoints and items to gauge what it can potentially do. Loosely related, I did Trinity Beam Paladin on Wizardspike when it was released with 1sk, it looked good and I shelved it since - there's obviously more support for it now, but it came with players much more richer and knowledgeable than me at the time. Imagine what I could have achieved if there was anything, anywhere, that showed me what the spell looked like, how it functioned, and the baseline of damage it did without having to find the item and equip it just to see its' effects at lvl 1. Nevertheless, this is a small offender.

b)
► Show Spoiler

I, inori92, won an auction for 110tg for this Buried Hawk. Via google on the Wiki, it states it gives 10% avoid at level 1. In the game, it states 4% on the Druid skill tree. For my Assassin, it gives 0. The item does not work as indicated. I messaged the person I believed to have all the answers, and I was given a reply, "we will look into it for next patch". However, the end result is, I lose $11 USD worth of TG, for "we will look into this next patch". Honestly, the 110 TG is not the issue here. And for anyone who can't see the issue, I honestly want to insult you but allow me to explain in a unique fashion.

I'm sigmund0463. I just registered on the forum and downloaded this mod. I liked it, and have been playing it a lot, I'm level 127. Suddenly, I see this item on the Auction, it looks pretty crazy for my build - wild, right? There's this Wizardspike item on the auction selling for 1000 TG and I don't even know what Trinity beam does, but this item, according to google, gives me 10% avoid. I want it. I want to try it. And so, mr sigmund0463 uses his coronavirus stash funds to deposit 20 dollars into the game. It's week 1, he sees this "Buried Hawk" item, it's auctioning until 5AM eastern time, way past his bedtime, but he really wants it! So he stays up, and bids and bids more than half his initial deposit, and acquires the item. Then, boom. It doesn't work. If I'm sigmund, why the hell would I keep playing this game?

This comes down to proper documentation. One of the moderators who I appreciate a lot, replied to me after and told me to message him to check with him before making these types of outlier purchases. I told him that he is not my personal encyclopedia nor should he have to be. This auction was also won at 6AM EST. I stayed up until 4am and fought last-minute bids to win it. It felt like shit, but hey what can you do right? Well, if I was a developer and someone came to me with this problem, the first thing I would think of doing is at least refunding the cost of the purchase. It's not the amount, it's the gesture - the principle. Here's some more examples.

c)
I am romjkcba. I'm a player from Europe, trying this mod for the second time, after last season. My English is not the best. I saw the trailer on my youtube recommended feed and wanted to try it because the new season started last week. I leveled fast, googled for some help to reach Dunc. I finally conquered Dunc, wanted to sell some items but auction house requires a 10-16 TG fee that I don't have. So I message some people for trades, finally make money, then I go finish Fauzt. I feel good. I progressed fast in ~6 days, I am the #7 Druid on ladder now at 140. Now, I should try this end-game content called Dimensional Labyrinths. How to get there? Use a Depleted Riftstone? Oh, but I thought rifts were those dungeons that are called rifts where I went to level until now? Anyways, I cube rift stone to open labyrinth, not rift. Okay.

I clear level one, pretty easy. Then level two. Then level three. Why are these monsters all the same? Anyways, I keep going. Level 4, easy - monsters more tanky, but they still die. Level 5, same thing. 6, requires a Crystal? Ok, sure, I wonder what's in there. Oh, what's this, a Barbarian? Cool. Wait, what? How did I die so fast? Whatever, I'll just go in again. Wait, I'm locked out right? Well this seems interesting, but how come I didn't get anything for the last 5 levels that I climbed? Hmm.. Nothing anywhere regarding drop rates... Maybe older patch notes? Wow, this stuff is all over the place. Maybe I'll ask in Discord? Okay, lets ask. Okay, so they said, "get good", "read patch notes", "I hope that guy's Undead Crown in the Auction doesn't sell for the lulz xdddd", and "Labs have a slightly increased Magic Find percentage but it's more for challenge than farming and rewards, if you want to loot items you should go back to Duncraig or Fauztinzville". I see...

d)
Yo guys, it's JohnWickx52, I'm new here but a friend told me to try this mod, POE Harvest league ran its' course for me, and I'm here for more ARPG thrill, whadya got? Thanks for letting me into this reset group. Hmm... I'll try Druid, I really liked the Hurricane spell from Diablo 2 and looks like they changed this spell to "Hurricane", so why not? Yeah, I will level and get it and see.
Okay, so I'm 105 now, I'm dying a lot in this Island map, can I get some help? It's weird, I am channeling this spell and it does decent damage, but either they die too slow or I die too fast... Oh, I need to put more points into Acid Fiend? I see... Weird, this isn't what I feel how this should be, I'm not really owning anything with my base spells, but you say I'm not even at endgame yet? I must be doing things wrong, let's me ask Discord for some help, I guess? There isn't much information about my new spell anywhere... Hmm, okay... So the game developer just says that this spell is good in Late Labs? I'm not sure what that is, but I guess it doesn't help me get there too fast? Okay, I'll change my build to... Well, that's weird. I see all these videos with Paladins, Amazons, Sorceresses, they are destroying these maps but why do I feel like I am so much slower? My clear AOE isn't as big, my damage doesn't seem to match as well either... Am I doing something wrong? Am I that bad?

e)
inori92 wants to understand absorb better on MXL. There are some things that carry over from D2, but many hidden/unknown mechanics that have been modified. He knows there is no documentation, finds little information ctrl+f'ing patch notes, so he goes to check discord. On discord, he posts evidence regarding divulging information:
► Show Spoiler

After being told by development to go to Amazonbasin for reasons still beyond me as I could just be given an answer, this is what it says
► Show Spoiler

The information was inconsistent everywhere, so I had to consult the moderator who I trust to be the best player in this game, this is his reply:
► Show Spoiler

Is my point clear? I hope it is.

Within these random examples, I've illustrated multiple issues beyond just documentation, but they all start from there. If the game had a properly updated wiki, if mechanics were constantly posted with updates regarding rifts and spells, if there were showcases or even GIFs which are mainly what I look for on the wikis that show how the spell works and how they look, explaining the # of hits per second/instance like some spells do while others don't, if there was a skill calculator again that was properly updated, how much better would this game be? How many more people would play and enjoy?



Items



Items are the crux of MXL and ARPG's entire identity. Luckily, MXLhas a very vast, expanse item design that incorporates numerous cool ideas. However, some of the philosophy or overall design of items are completely backwards to me. I have said this before, I will say it again - the rarity associated with some of these items, should make people want to create entire characters or adjust their whole builds to incorporate it, without punishing the player too heavily in the process. The pros should greatly outweigh the cons - items are a gamble, and when you secure that big SSU/SSSU, it should be a win. Sometimes, it doesn't feel like that on this game. Few examples:

a) Class-specific SSU items
There's so many of these completely out of parity, and I sincerely don't understand why it's not receiving the just desserts.
Angelhost
Angelhost
Crown Shield (Sacred)

Defense: 10634 to 11780
Chance to Block: 4%
(Paladin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 447
Item Level: 120
30% Chance to cast level 20 Cherubim on Melee Attack
2% Base Block Chance
Adds 20-100 Damage
+200% Enhanced Defense
+5000 Defense
-30% to Strength
20% to Dexterity
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
+200 Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (4)
Advent of Hatred
Advent of Hatred
Dart Thrower (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (272 - 355) to (465 - 608)
(Necromancer Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength:
1185 to 1580
Item Level: 120
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
Deathly Effigy: +1 Maximum Effigy Allowed
10% Chance to cast level 1 Bolt on Striking
30% Attack Speed
Adds (60 to 100)-(250 to 350) Damage
(75 to 150)% Bonus to Attack Rating
+(150 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
20% to Strength
Requirements +(200 to 300)%
Socketed (6)
Atanna Khan's Dress
Atanna Khan's Dress
Ceremonial Armor (Sacred)

Defense: 10306 to 14529
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 722
Item Level: 120
+20 to Maximum Familiar Skill Level
3% Chance to cast level 60 Magic Missiles on Death Blow
30% Movement Speed
+(5 to 10) to Arcane Swarm
+200% Enhanced Defense
+(1000 to 3000) Defense
Elemental Resists -25%
Physical Resist (5 to 10)%
10% Chance to Avoid Damage
Socketed (6)
Galeona's Lash
Galeona's Lash
Jared's Stone (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (189 - 240) to (312 - 399)
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 242
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Dexterity)%
+1% Deadly Strike Per Firedance Base Level
40% Chance to cast level 1 Ancients' Hand on Melee Attack
Adds (85 to 120)-(201 to 270) Damage
+(160 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
10% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(1001 to 10000) Defense
Socketed (3)
Ranger's Disguise
Ranger's Disguise
Spirit Mask (Sacred)

Defense: (2836 - 3129) to (3182 - 3510)
(Druid Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 650
Item Level: 120
2% Chance to cast level 20 Sun Strike on Striking
80% Attack Speed
+10 to Widowmaker
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
15% to Strength
Maximum Life +(2 to 3)%
Physical Resist 10%
Socketed (4)
Chasmstriker
Chasmstriker
Reflex Bow (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (182 - 201) to (329 - 400)
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 680
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
9% Chance to cast level 14 Shower of Rocks on Kill
13% Chance to cast level 1 Arrow on Striking
+(125 to 175) to Maximum Damage
(0 to 10)% Life stolen per Hit
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+(100 to 200) to Strength
+(100 to 200) to Dexterity
Socketed (6)
The King of Ents
The King of Ents
Labrys (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (291 - 321) to (446 - 527)
(Barbarian Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 796
Item Level: 120
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
Thunderfury
Treewarden Morph
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
50% Attack Speed
+(150 to 200) to Maximum Damage
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+(5 to 15) to Rend
+(50 to 100) Life after each Kill
Socketed (6)
Eye of the Storm
Eye of the Storm
Mystic Orb

Right-Click to Apply
1% Chance to cast level 50 Supernova on Melee Attack
+5% to Lightning Spell Damage
+12 to Energy
+10 Required Level
The Biting Frost
The Biting Frost
Flamen Staff (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: 48 to 51
(Druid Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 240
Item Level: 120
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.06 per Strength)%
Ember Spirit Nullified
+2 Hunting Banshee Projectiles
+(9 to 10) to Druid Skill Levels
+150 Spell Focus
25% Cast Speed
+50% Damage to Undead
+(25 to 40)% to Cold Spell Damage
-(20 to 30)% to Enemy Cold Resistance
15% to Energy
Physical Resist 5%
5% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)
The Searing Heat
The Searing Heat
Flamen Staff (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: 48 to 51
(Druid Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 240
Item Level: 120
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.06 per Strength)%
Hunting Banshee Nullified
+3 Ember Spirit Projectiles
+(9 to 10) to Druid Skill Levels
+150 Spell Focus
25% Cast Speed
+50% Damage to Undead
+(25 to 40)% to Fire Spell Damage
-(20 to 30)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
15% to Energy
Physical Resist 5%
5% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)
Heart of Fire
Heart of Fire
Hexblade (Sacred)

(Necromancer Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity:
926
Item Level: 120
Innate Fire Damage: (40.0% of Dexterity)
14% Chance to cast level 50 Pyroblast on Melee Attack
1% Chance to cast level 40 Pentagram on Striking
+(4 to 5) to Necromancer Skill Levels
Adds 160-250 Fire Damage
-(20 to 30)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+1000 Defense
Physical Resist 10%
+(100 to 200) Life on Melee Attack
100% Bonus to Defense
Requirements +100%
Socketed (3)
Smokeless Fire
Smokeless Fire
Grim Wand (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: 39 to 44
(Necromancer Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 172
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.06 per Dexterity)%
+1 Extra Fireheart Totem
+(2 to 3) to Necromancer Skill Levels
1% Base Block Chance
+50% Damage to Undead
+66% to Fire Spell Damage
+(51 to 75)% to Summoned Minion Damage
(11 to 20)% to All Attributes
Fire Absorb 5%
+(101 to 200) Life after each Kill
Socketed (2)
Jaguar's Grasp
Jaguar's Grasp
Tepoztopilli (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (308 - 329) to (402 - 425)
(Paladin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 733
Item Level: 120
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
Amazing Grace
Adds 125-200 Damage
250% Bonus to Attack Rating
Adds 100-150 Fire Damage
Adds 100-150 Lightning Damage
Adds 100-150 Cold Damage
-35% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
+(170 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+(25 to 30) to Shunpo
+500 to Life
+100 Life after each Kill
Socketed (6)
Tinker's Gambit
Tinker's Gambit
Cap (Sacred)

Defense: 1187 to 1201
(Assassin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 500
Item Level: 120
+1% Trap Damage per 5 Base Strength
5% Chance to cast level 30 Banish when Attacked
+3 to Assassin Skill Levels
25% Block Speed
25% Hit Recovery
Regenerate Mana +25%
Maximum Elemental Resists +1%
Physical Resist -5%
Socketed (4)


I'll touch the few that I have personal experiences with.

Galeona's Lash
Galeona's Lash
Jared's Stone (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (189 - 240) to (312 - 399)
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 242
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Dexterity)%
+1% Deadly Strike Per Firedance Base Level
40% Chance to cast level 1 Ancients' Hand on Melee Attack
Adds (85 to 120)-(201 to 270) Damage
+(160 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
10% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(1001 to 10000) Defense
Socketed (3)
- as I said last time, this is the SSU Jared's Stone, the rarest Sorceress Orb, it should make you jump when you find it. However, it even doesn't compete with
Steel Punisher
Steel Punisher
Warp Blade (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (172 - 187) to (332 - 358)
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 400
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.13 per Dexterity)%
Area Effect Attack
Spiral Dance: +300% Bonus Magic Damage
15% Chance to cast level 25 ATMG Sentry on Melee Attack
+(1 to 2) to Sorceress Skill Levels
Adds 40-100 Damage
(15 to 20)% Life stolen per Hit
+(170 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
10% Deadly Strike
Physical Resist 10%
Socketed (6)
. Make it give Witchblood bonuses to all classes, make it a better melee weapon, whatever you do, this item should not be a Charsi at first glance. It doesn't matter what it can actually do with 10 other optimized end-game pieces, your player base looks at this item and doesn't think it's good. That needs to change.

Tinker's Gambit
Tinker's Gambit
Cap (Sacred)

Defense: 1187 to 1201
(Assassin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 500
Item Level: 120
+1% Trap Damage per 5 Base Strength
5% Chance to cast level 30 Banish when Attacked
+3 to Assassin Skill Levels
25% Block Speed
25% Hit Recovery
Regenerate Mana +25%
Maximum Elemental Resists +1%
Physical Resist -5%
Socketed (4)
- in most games, especially involving X-amount of life scenarios like Labyrinths, survivability is a priority over damage. This item is the polar opposite, it forces a huge sacrifice on survivability to deal more damage - from what I recall a few seasons ago, this trap damage multiplier isn't its' own like Adjudicator, but just a % increase on subterfuge. I don't know about you, but there aren't many pure trap-sins to begin with as they have serious damage limitations, and the ones who play it don't use this item. It's simple, the cons of this orange modifier outweigh the pros.

Angelhost
Angelhost
Crown Shield (Sacred)

Defense: 10634 to 11780
Chance to Block: 4%
(Paladin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 447
Item Level: 120
30% Chance to cast level 20 Cherubim on Melee Attack
2% Base Block Chance
Adds 20-100 Damage
+200% Enhanced Defense
+5000 Defense
-30% to Strength
20% to Dexterity
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
+200 Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (4)
- For some odd reason, Angelhost always makes me think, Heroes 3 - Archangels. A classic game, broken power. Anyways, this item's STR/Dex modifier will always kill the item for most of the player base. After complaining in my last thread, I took Crash's prior advice to tinker with some Dex builds - I managed to buy a Hammer of Zerae COTW and a Battlemaiden, and ran around like a Hammerdin for 5 minutes before realizing it was garbage. I don't understand some of this backwards philosophy. For some reason, this Paladin class which has buffs like Dragonheart, which clearly steers toward Strength, needs to have the Rarest Unique item of its' class, to hurt strength and force some Max-block Dexterity Scepter/Javelin build. Like, why? Why don't you do that with a Targe or something, why is it the Crown Shield that forces a build change for some mediocrity? I challenged someone to create a top build out of, or involving this item, a few seasons ago. I have yet to see any showcases or evidence towards it. This item could have some super sick angel-related buff/mod - Cherubim on Striking, Sanctuary-like aura similar to
Soul Reaver
Soul Reaver
Bonesplitter (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: 82 to 84
(Necromancer Only)
Required Level: 120
Item Level: 120
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
Mega Impact
-50% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+1 to Ravenous Flames
(65 to 75)% to All Attributes
+200 Life on Melee Attack
Requirements -100%
Socketed (6)
, hell maybe Cherubim oskill, Smite, whatever. But instead, -30% STR, +20% Dex. So many other good stats, so much potential wasted.

Chasmstriker
Chasmstriker
Reflex Bow (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (182 - 201) to (329 - 400)
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 680
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
9% Chance to cast level 14 Shower of Rocks on Kill
13% Chance to cast level 1 Arrow on Striking
+(125 to 175) to Maximum Damage
(0 to 10)% Life stolen per Hit
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+(100 to 200) to Strength
+(100 to 200) to Dexterity
Socketed (6)
- Honestly, this item sucks. It has great stats, but the numbers are overall too low. The fact that it does less sheet damage than its' SU counterpart doesn't help. But my biggest issue with this item is not only the fact that it has less damage than the more common
Askarbydd
Askarbydd
Reflex Bow (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: (230 - 311) to (330 - 455)
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity:
1020
Item Level: 105
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
50% Attack Speed
Adds (70 to 110)-(150 to 230) Damage
15% Life stolen per Hit
+(140 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+(1 to 10) to Rapid Wyrmshot
Maximum Poison Resist +2%
Poison Length Reduced by 25%
Requirements +50%
Socketed (6)
, but also the fact that Askarbydd has Rapid Wyrmshot, which hits 13x in a second - for a total WDM modifier of 75% x 13 = almost 1000% weapon damage from Askarbydd's spell, while Chasmstriker gives... 13% ctc arrow. lol, really? Swap the rarity of these two bows, tweak the stats, buff Chasmstriker, do something. This item is simply not good, for being the rarest SSU of the Amazon weaponry.

Atanna Khan's Dress
Atanna Khan's Dress
Ceremonial Armor (Sacred)

Defense: 10306 to 14529
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 722
Item Level: 120
+20 to Maximum Familiar Skill Level
3% Chance to cast level 60 Magic Missiles on Death Blow
30% Movement Speed
+(5 to 10) to Arcane Swarm
+200% Enhanced Defense
+(1000 to 3000) Defense
Elemental Resists -25%
Physical Resist (5 to 10)%
10% Chance to Avoid Damage
Socketed (6)
- In my eyes, this item is the biggest jebait. Being a new Mana Sorc a couple patches ago, I almost paid 400 TG for this item because once again, there is no proper documentation that explains what "Arcane Swarm" is, and the only way to test anything in this game seems to be a gamble with a luck drop or a purchase that you don't know if it will pay off. Luckily for me, I lost the bid but was able to burrow it and speak to the person who bought it. It requires a bow or crossbow to use, and requires an exorbitant amount of gears to make it competitive, or at least achieve reputable sheet damage. So why would I ever build for this, when there is at least 3 other Sorceress builds that can perform better with a lower cost? The reason is simple, because there is no documentation and I want to try it, that's it. The Sorceress who won the auction for this armor that I was bidding on, quit the game within 3 days after - this was his endgame, he was sorely disappointed and felt there wasn't much reason for him to continue.

b) Others

Valkyrie's Prime Secret Bow - Was massively disappointed by the creation of this item. Base damage is like 4-6 or something, specifically designed so %Enhanced Damage doesn't work. The most popular Bowazon guide right now states that this is the best in slot and that's completely false. Rolling resists with Emblems is one thing, but Sky siege is an extremely bad spell for Bowazons in general because they have to sacrifice so much damage to maintain survivability to be this "bowa-pounce-zon". Not to mention there isn't much documentation besides the %wdm, how often it can hit and its' relevant AOE, so after testing it, I have concluded it's garbage and not worth anyone's time. For the 35% arrow proc, which I understand to be %50 WDM, you sacrifice way too much sheet damage to be remotely worth it, and the STR scaling doesnt matter for Bowazons, this isn't Paladin or Barbs with their free 300+ all stats. For a "Secret" Item, this was a massive letdown. Can't use this reasonably for Barbs either, they prefer Arrow Swarm and/or Tantrum since they have items that actually dedicate to it, so it leaves... Paladin. What a surprise, the class that makes everything work somehow.

Segnitia
Segnitia
Field Plate (Sacred)

Defense: (6677 - 7487) to (7894 - 8856)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 625
Item Level: 120
5% Chance to cast level 10 Time Strike on Striking
+25 Damage
(5 to 8)% Chance of Crushing Blow
Slow Target 10%
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Defense
+200 Defense
Elemental Resists +15%
Physical Damage Reduced by 50
+(50 to 75) Life after each Kill
Socketed (6)
- Crushing Blow is really not a thing anymore, removed on Perfect Rainbows recently also - modify this item to have better CB range, or something. It's the worst SSU armor in the game right now, I don't think I've seen a single build use it.

The Awakening
The Awakening
Full Plate Mail (Sacred)

Defense: 11673 to 14304
Required Level: 130
Required Strength: 690
Item Level: 130
Ethereal
When Cubed with The Sleep, Enables an Additional Awakening
(The Armor will be Disenchanted by the Recipe)
5% Chance to cast level 50 Banish on Death Blow
+(1 to 4) to All Skills
50% Combat Speeds
-(31 to 35)% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
+200% Enhanced Defense
+25 Maximum Stamina
Magic Resist +5%
Socketed (6)
- I had a shower thought last season - I never saw this item until recently, someone found one yesterday. Why don't you make the awakening effect into an occult effigy with a lower-than-average drop percentage? Occult Effigies do these weird things and I feel like it makes good sense. On the other hand, salvaging an SSSU armor, which could be Best-in-slot for some builds to have a second Sleep bonus doesn't seem like the best tradeoff. "The Awakening - Occult Effigy" - When Cubed with The Sleep, second Sleep trophy OR, enhances the Sleep's set bonuses by 50-100%, OR adds a completely random trophy effect to The Sleep - would raise the market value of Sleeps, and keeps an RNG element to make it difficult, but people can trade it. In the meanwhile, maybe Awakening can boost Rising Dawn, increase aoe / damage, cast on deathblow, or give 1 to a new exclusive oskill, "MIGHT OF THE SUN" idk, up to your creative.

The Buried Hawk
- Not only for my sake but the future, if these items give Uber Skills, they should be extremely game-changing - please make sure they work properly, regarding Base Skill Levels and whatnot - there's enough lack of documentation about Base Skill levels and class skill level caps and whatnot. I know Faerie Fire is bugged, but I already wonder about Way of the Griffon - Is it going to give 1-20 lightning damage? lol

-
Knight's Grace
Knight's Grace
Greaves (Sacred)

Defense: (2232 - 2481) to (2519 - 2799)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength:
780
Item Level: 120
2% Chance to cast level 35 Knife Throw on Striking
+1 to All Skills
25% Attack Speed
(10 to 40)% Movement Speed
Adds 10-25 Damage
+(170 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+(15 to 25) to all Attributes
Physical Resist 5%
Requirements +20%
Socketed (4)
-
More like Fallen from Grace. Rarest SSU base boots. This item was glorious for a long time, then people opted for Windrunners because well, Windrunners are actually superior in nearly every aspect. a 1-2% proc for 50% damage is not enough of a sell vs 50 extra damage, lifeleech, etc. Not to mention customizable via guaranteed Lucky success'd boots. Either increase the proc to retain the sell/value of the item, reduce stat requirements, give it more stats, do something. Or you can just, nerf windrunners I guess? Doesn't seem too fun but it is what it is.

-
Wizardspike
Wizardspike
Dagger (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: 37
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 376
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Dexterity)%
-70% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
50% Cast Speed
+(4 to 8) to Trinity Beam
+2 to Life (Based on Character Level)
Maximum Mana +20%
Regenerate Mana +30%
Socketed (2)
-
I forgot to address this in my initial post. This item is iconic and it would make sense to retain the -70% pierce and the FCR and mana regen. But it's a Dagger base, and one of the most frequenly-traded items on the ladder right now, due to its' sheer power. This is what the design of a "game-changing" SSU should be. My only issues that I see with this item are that,

  • it drops too frequently, it's a completely game/build changing item that rivals
    Wintry Majesty
    Wintry Majesty
    Long Staff (Sacred)

    Two-Hand Damage: 56 to 58
    (Sorceress Only)
    Required Level: 120
    Required Dexterity: 203
    Item Level: 130
    Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
    Restitution
    (Based on Restore Percentage)
    Becomes Available to All Classes
    -50% to Enemy Cold Resistance
    +150 Life after each Kill
    +10 to All Skills
    +50% Magic Find
    Cube with Trophy Fragment: Restore +5%
    5% Chance to cast level 50 Glacial Nova on Death Blow
    +(201 to 250) Spell Focus
    +50% Damage to Undead
    +(41 to 60)% to Cold Spell Damage
    +15 to Snow Queen
    +(19 to 24) to Frozen Orb
    Regenerate Mana +50%
    6% Reanimate as: Random Monster
    Socketed (4)
    in my opinion, but it's way better for many reasons. There's about 50 Wizard spikes at least, circulating ladder right now, I saw 1 Wintry Majesty being sold a few days ago. Yet this item can reach 1000-1700 TG values while Wintry sells for 500? Because Trinity Beam vs. Frozen Orb? This is a design issue, is it not? Anyways, nerf the drop-rate of this item. Daggers are common anyway. I've found 16
    Bone Scalpel
    Bone Scalpel
    Dagger (Sacred)

    One-Hand Damage: 37
    Required Level: 100
    Required Dexterity: 376
    Item Level: 105
    Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Dexterity)%
    8% Chance to cast level 24 Disintegrate on Death Blow
    +(4 to 5) to Necromancer Skill Levels
    +(4 to 5) to Paladin Skill Levels
    +(30 to 40)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
    +30% to Summoned Minion Life
    +20% to Summoned Minion Resistances
    +75 to Vitality
    +(25 to 50) Life after each Kill
    50% Magic Find
    Socketed (2)
    and 0 Wizardspikes this season and even I think this drop-rate is too high, based on what I see. Or make it SSSU.
  • Obviously Trinity Beam was buffed to receive more spell points, but I feel that the spell scaling here should be like, 2-5 or 2-6 at best. Instead of just nerfing the damage gain or whatever, deter a bit of fanatic love from every Paladin wanting to do this build because it's clearly the most effective and efficient, best bang for your buck. Some caster gear, some extra pierce, don't need to add too much other stats because -70%pierce and Paladins lul? Leads me to my 3rd point
  • Figure it out so this item isn't a +1 to Paladin Trinity Beam. Again, this is harder as it requires class parity - something that shouldn't be expected in just one patch. But I think it's important to illustrate this - literally every single spell oskill is a Paladin buff in this current state of the game. In fact, I would call any person stupid for trying to make any energy+energyfactor+pierce requiring oskill (most of them) on a character that isn't Paladin. Why would you do that? Do you like spending more money and time to be weaker?

-
Black Hand Sigil
Black Hand Sigil
Ring

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 120
4% Chance to cast level 50 Shuriken Flurry on Death Blow
4% Chance to cast level 50 Drakemaw on Death Blow
4% Chance to cast level 50 Doom on Death Blow
Elemental Resists -25%
and
Signet of the Gladiator
Signet of the Gladiator
Ring

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 120
2% Chance to cast level 50 Shadow Blade on Striking
+1 to All Skills
1% Base Block Chance
Elemental Resists -25%
-
So I am of the belief that when items receive the Unique Graphic Design treatment, you can expect them to be pretty overpowered, or busted. Maybe this philosophy is wrong, but off the top of my head, SSSU's and Secret items like Valkyrie's Prime have this, whereas others don't. So when you give this treatment to two of the rarest rings in the game, I presume, naturally, that they should be extremely coveted. Build-changing. Best-in-slot. But frankly, even among the rarest of rings, these ain't it chief. They also both reduce -25 resistances, which is a pretty significant hit. Let's start with Black Hand Sigil.

Black Hand Sigil
Black Hand Sigil
Ring

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 120
4% Chance to cast level 50 Shuriken Flurry on Death Blow
4% Chance to cast level 50 Drakemaw on Death Blow
4% Chance to cast level 50 Doom on Death Blow
Elemental Resists -25%
gives nice deathblow procs, aimed at casters due to its' high level spell procs - Doom, less exclusive to casters - Drakemaw - Holy Paladin Fire spell - Shuriken Flurry, Phys/Magic damage. So, in my head, the class that can best take advantage of this, perhaps even the only effective class, well can you guess it? It's Paladin, more specifically Vesseldin. Deathblow proc's are good for one thing in this game, which is farming. Vesseldins already run through Dunc in full crafts and a Dead Lake's Lady, so the rarest ring in the game shouild assist you in... Fauztinville. You don't boss with deathblow procs, you don't push labs with deathblow procs. Which is... Fine? I guess..? For the rarest ring in the game? Not really.

Anyways, so this ring gives your vessels some more damage when Doom procs, one cast of level 50 Drakemaw every 25 monsters killed (one or two procs amidst a Fauztinville pack), and Shuriken Flurry. Shuriken Flurry is like, maybe 0.15 seconds of Vessel hits for a Vesseldin, but it will down Necrobots faster which is all you care about, everything else melts. Same thing with Doom. But for me, for 95% of other classes in the game that will still focus Physical/Magic damage, why would you wear this over
Elemental Band
Elemental Band
Ring

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 120
+10% to Spell Damage
+1 to Path of Flames
+1 to Nova Charge
+1 to Lightning Arena
+1 to Hive
? This item has major shortcomings, this item's abilities rival that of like, maybe a Ras Algethi/Witchcraft/Elemental Band hybrid, in-between somewhere. Also it plays off procs, more specifically Deathblow procs. Do I need to say more? It's a mediocre item slotted as one of the rarest things with enhanced graphics.

Signet of the Gladiator
Signet of the Gladiator
Ring

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 120
2% Chance to cast level 50 Shadow Blade on Striking
+1 to All Skills
1% Base Block Chance
Elemental Resists -25%
is an item that I have an uncanny bias for. I love this item. I found about its' existence in Sigma Season 1, and I found one in Season 2. But no matter how I try to see it, -25 resists, combined with the mediocre growth and extreme rarity, doesn't serve the item justice. Shadow blade as the patch log states, is a 50% wdm knife with 8000 bonus magic damage. Factor in end-game monster resistances, this item's proc will never do more than 10k damage a proc, right? Realistically, you're looking at ~4000-5000 Magic Damage and assuming a character damage sheet of 10000 (which is pretty generous), about ~5000 for 50%, then reduced further by 25-60% physical resistances from monsters, not to mention flat reductions. So, I equip this ring, and I have 2% on my striking procs, which obviously only works with WDM skills and not spells, to deal an extra, maybe 8000 damage, to monsters, minibosses, bosses with... 50,000 -> 1,000,000 HP. I have 2% to do this. Okay, sure, it's only one stat.

Then I get +1 skills. This is nice, though most WDM builds don't care about +skills, sure not bad because honestly the next stat is the selling point of the item, right?

1% BASE BLOCK CHANCE - this is also a massive jebait for me. Most builds that want to incorporate any block in their build should assume that for it to be any relevant, you would want at least ~30, or 40% block to make it do anything. Chances are already scary, which is why most builds opt for high HP pools to survive not just 1, but 2 hits. Look at
Periapt of Life
Periapt of Life
Mystic Orb

Right-Click to Apply
4% to Vitality
+40 Life Regenerated per Second
+10 Required Level
and
Apple of Discord
Apple of Discord
Mystic Orb

Right-Click to Apply
+40 to Life
+40 to Mana
+10 Required Level
, look at what you had to do to
The Perfect Sphere
. Anyways, to bring block chances to any semblance of a reliable number, you need to achieve a certain DEX value. Reasonably speaking, the sacrifices you need to make in most builds, just to invest in DEX and make block viable with this item, is never worth it. I have tried through two season on incorporating this item, and I never succeed. The bonuses are just not good enough, and the -25 resists for what it gives is completely pointless. Barbs have Gladiator's dominance, they don't need this item to save them 200 stats. Paladins don't have enough viable DEX builds despite the glamorous
Angelhost
Angelhost
Crown Shield (Sacred)

Defense: 10634 to 11780
Chance to Block: 4%
(Paladin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 447
Item Level: 120
30% Chance to cast level 20 Cherubim on Melee Attack
2% Base Block Chance
Adds 20-100 Damage
+200% Enhanced Defense
+5000 Defense
-30% to Strength
20% to Dexterity
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
+200 Life on Melee Attack
Socketed (4)
, and when they do build DEX, they can easily achieve max-block because they will stack over 4-5k DEX, especially with all their free stats. Amazons? Playing Javazon for what? Are you going to wait for a Titan's Revenge to drop so you can take 5 seconds casting Fairy Rings to clear Dunc or Fauzt, when you can do it in 2 with a Bowazon? Lightning Fury, you're going to invest in DEX and have 8k life? Like the trade-offs that this item offers in its' current state is just awful.

If I had a hand in design, I would probably break this item - 2-3% chance to block, 4-5% shadow blade, maybe an orange modifier - Block % scales off Strength // +2-3% Chance to block, Block capped at 40%/50% // Scales off Vitality? I don't know. But it's garbage right now.
Signet of the Gladiator... I think, Gladiator - Russell Crowe. I think Troy, Achilles with his iconic shield and spear with no helmet. Javazons? Barbarians? Paladins? Melee Necros? For one of the rarest items in the Ring category, I would never choose this ring over
Adrenaline Rush
Adrenaline Rush
Ring

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 120
+1 to All Skills
40% Combat Speeds
40% Movement Speed
Maximum Elemental Resists +1%
or a well-rolled
Ouroboros
Ouroboros
Ring

Required Level: 110
Item Level: 120
+1 to All Skills
(-15 to 25)% to Strength
(-15 to 25)% to Dexterity
(-15 to 25)% to Vitality
(-15 to 25)% to Energy
, or a
Giant's Knuckle
Giant's Knuckle
Ring

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 120
20% Attack Speed
Adds 10-15 Damage
(5 to 10)% Life stolen per Hit
5% Deadly Strike
+25 Life Regenerated per Second
Physical Resist 5%
(super broken item btw, needs nerfs or changes in rarity, this item literally has 6 useful stats).

c) Eye of Wisdom Class O-skill Sets

How are these still in the same state for so many seasons? I seriously don't understand what's going on here. The hype around the release of these things was unreal (Lightning Fury and Frozen Orb in particular). Lo and behold, halfway into the release season, they are exposed as garbage, and the only ones that survive today, after numerous buffs, is the assassin's ATMG set. I feel like all I have seen is developers arguing that Frozen Orb is actually good the way it was or whatever, then this season, receives a 25% damage buff. Like, never mind the fact that there is absolutely no documentation regarding the exorbitant manacosts of this spell, along with its mediocrity (small range, doesn't seem to hit reliably). Why is the design philosophy set in a way, where there is a clear developer approach to how the item/build should be utilised, but there be absolutely no hints or information towards it? It's literally a Do-It-Yourself jungle, and everyone has to pay the price. This is such a backwater approach to game development that confuses me to no end - on the one hand, you have Trinity Beam, Rising Dawn, Wyrmshot, Vessels, ATMG, War Cry. Then you have these oskill sets. I sincerely don't understand if the developers want people to play some of these o-skill builds or not, or if it's a forgotten concept. Depending on the answer, I can't fathom why they are even in the game.

Barbarian - Imagine how sick this would be, if you gave this a Charge / Leap attack that lands a Tremor / some AOE. Assuming these sets shouldn't be best-in-slot for the hardest end-game content (Labyrinths), shouldn't this give melee-barb specs some competitive farming method? Or whirlwind, in line with the other sets bringing back vintage spells. But no, it's a Tantrum set. Okay, so what's Tantrum? Oh, I have to google, to see that it is an AOE bow skill? All right, so then let's rock and roll. Oh wait. MY OSKILL SET DOESN'T GIVE ME MY OSKILL.

Amazon - So Shield became Javelin, and Lightning Fury received some parity - %spell damage works now. I experimented last week with a very nice Charged Cloud - 3sk, 2block, good stats. Gromotvod -15pierce, Impundulu, 30/-10 Tesseract, Hide of the Basilisk, Dementia, Lamha, Clockwork Slippers. Some 3-4% Lightning jewels. Invested some points into dex for about ~30% block, rest went into vitality. Guess what? Barely reaches 10k (1-10000 btw, completely unstable), can't even clear Dunc properly. Lightning absorbs completely destroy this build because they run at you and put you in hit animation, and you can't kill them with WDM skills from javelin tree because your javelin does 80 avg damage, moonbeam has to be constantly cast between chucking Lightning Furies to maintain Phys.Res cap, and it's not enough because your Total life points are very low for not going nebelrings / vit jewels/gears and especially Paragon, because you need Spirit of Vengeance. Also you can't use Perfect Gems since Lightning fury receives no bonuses from stats. 100% WDM on skill tooltip only works for the initial javelin chuck, hits one time, and Charged Cloud is a Javelin that does 80 damage. Even if you go full Dex, you will have 8k life, and your weapon attack will do 1000 damage. Moonbeam's regen sustain lasts 2 seconds before you die because your HP pool is so low, you have little to no defense as you need caster gears, it's still absurdly bad. Why would you ever play this over Bowazon, Stormcall, or Fairy Ring Javazon, which is a super obsolete build also? I can't believe Trinity Beam and Lightning Fury were mentioned in the same patch notes, and this is the state of affairs.

Sorceress - All I know is that this set, along with Frozen Orb, were extremely underwhelming a few patches ago, and despite the 25% damage buff, I assume the set will mostly be the same. Might be a little different for Wintry Majesty. I also think that the drop rates for Arctic Shard and Wintry Majesty, the only two sources of this spell, were nerfed - a hunch based on what I see selling this season, as well as my farming. Then again, RNG I guess, or stealth nerfs without documentation. Neither would surprise me.

Druid - I heard from a friend that Gamma field's damage sucks. I believe it, this is complete Charsi material. Why, I do not know. If I could change this item, for starters, I would make it a non-poison build. Oskills seem to provide a new "element" of skill apart from the kit, and Druid has a whole skill treeline dedicated to Poison, so I would probably make it something that might support Stormclash and supports
Forest Defender
Forest Defender
Antlers (Sacred)

Defense: (2277 - 2562) to (2474 - 2783)
(Druid Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 500
Item Level: 105
Spiritual Alignment Adds 5% Lightning Spell Damage per Base Level
Spiritual Alignment No Longer Adds Fire/Cold Spell Damage
+2 to Druid Skill Levels
20% Cast Speed
20% Movement Speed
-(20 to 25)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+(15 to 20) to Stormclash
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Defense
Maximum Lightning Resist +1%
(35 to 50)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (4)
.

Necromancer - I don't play Necro and I don't know Soulshatter. But I do know that this item is never demanded. I have found over 5 myself just this ladder. It looks pretty bad, but I guess I'll let the Necromancers speak.

Paladin - played around with it last season after Rising Dawn - has some potential. Cool concept. Feel that it might need a little bit more buffs, but it's Paladin - they have everything in the game given to them, so not sure. Feels like Cataclysm level could be higher, %proc deathblow could be 1-2% higher.

Assassin's oskill set - after 10 individual buffs, ATMG Sentry is in a great place. Half the buffs to other class sets would be nice.

d) Relics
I could go on about these in an entire section. People are purchasing relics for over 200+TG, realizing it gives only +3 to their class's skill, then reselling it on the market. First of all, this is super awful. It's awful for design to keep it like this, and it's awful for the people who didn't know about it. You can't expect people to know, that the new Relic that says 15 to Vessel of Retribution will actually be 3 for your Paladin, that's absurd. What? Is 100% Deimoss going to drop because suddenly your vessel is increased by 3100% instead of 3000%? Are you afraid mobs in Dunc are going to melt in 2 hits instead of 3, in a 0.08 second differential? I thought Relics were to allow some builds to go over the top, but there's a hard hidden wall for that in many class-related cases. At the very least, I don't see why the cap for these class-spells is not at least +5 for the class, instead of +3. +3 on MXL means almost nothing (except Trinity Beam) so much is base-skill point related without proper documentation.

I have a
Relic (Bloodspeaker's Mark)
, the spell tooltip says it does 1% of the target's HP as damage, which sounds insane, but it's unusuable trash. A large number of Relics are o-skill related, which have little to no documentation. As of this moment, my character this season has 1660410 kills in 12 days of Ladder. I have gotten about 85% of these kills in Fauzt, probably about 13% on Dunc, and the rest from just leveling. In this time, I have found 2 relics, both from Dunc in the first 3 days. RNG much? Sure, but if the percentages are too low, it's going to deter people from the game. I never expected to find a Storm Blade, but I did expect to find a Relic in Fauzt, the highest Alvl map of farming, after 1.2 million kills. I did not. I won't be trying much longer. 320 Relics introduced into this game, my first is a Bloodspeaker's Mark, which serves almost no purpose in its' existence - it's fodder. And that's fine, not everything has to be amazing. But there has to be a balance, some degree of competitiveness / rivalry. I am willing to admit that I am wrong about this, but my Relic droprate so far is about 1/800,000. That's exorbitantly low. I have found 12 UMO's in Fauzt without a single Relic, I have found Every Ring and Amulet except Buried hawk. I am pretty positive Relics need a drop-rate buff, or something about the category of their drops need modification.



QOL & General Suggestions



This is getting very long, so I'm going to just bullet-point some random thoughts I had throughout my season(s). May repeat some of the above.

- Viz'jun -
is a horrible map in general. This map feels worse than Dunc in every way. It has a lot of mobs that don't drop anything due to respawn functions and those sentry mines are just dumb. They're not hard or clever or anything, they just insta-gib you in many cases while being invisible. It is also Alvl 128, which I assume means it was set to not drop SSSU's. Combine the unrewarding density due to lack of drops, high threat from mines, and alvl 128 with inferior drops and drop-rates to both Dunc and Fauzt, I actually wonder why anyone would be in this map besides to get to Laz or farming MCS charm. Few touches however, and this map could server as a great alternative to Fauzt and Dunc. But as of now, I feel it's a complete waste of time. No waypoint either.

- Class Parity -
I like the philosophy of 2-3 builds becoming viable, tweaked, reworked, or just given parity. You can always play anything you want, but opportunity cost is a thing, and there are glaring advantages that certain classes have over others. That's fine, it doesn't all have to be the same blob in design. But for example, why would you ever run Trinity Beam on any class over Paladin, which gets about ~40% of an oskill caster's requirements for free, over every other class? Energy Factor, Defense, best buffs in game between Euphoria and Rapture, free ~300 all stats, fastest cast frames and free 80% spell damage... like seriously, anytime you introduce a new oskill right now, that's basically a Paladin buff. Trinity Beam is just the ultimate showcase of that. Is Wizardspike overpowered? Sure,
Wizardspike
Wizardspike
Dagger (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: 37
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 376
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.11 per Dexterity)%
-70% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
50% Cast Speed
+(4 to 8) to Trinity Beam
+2 to Life (Based on Character Level)
Maximum Mana +20%
Regenerate Mana +30%
Socketed (2)
is what
Wintry Majesty
Wintry Majesty
Long Staff (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: 56 to 58
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 120
Required Dexterity: 203
Item Level: 130
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
Restitution
(Based on Restore Percentage)
Becomes Available to All Classes
-50% to Enemy Cold Resistance
+150 Life after each Kill
+10 to All Skills
+50% Magic Find
Cube with Trophy Fragment: Restore +5%
5% Chance to cast level 50 Glacial Nova on Death Blow
+(201 to 250) Spell Focus
+50% Damage to Undead
+(41 to 60)% to Cold Spell Damage
+15 to Snow Queen
+(19 to 24) to Frozen Orb
Regenerate Mana +50%
6% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)
wishes it was. but it's also an iconic item that only received the Trinity Beam addition a couple patches ago. For there to be any semblance of a parity regarding future oskills, you need to either nerf Paladins, or give other classes more ways to scale with them. I can think of a few - Amazons receiving lightning damage on SoV via some item modifier, Sorceresses gaining Witchblood effect via some item modifier, Druids converting energy factor into Strength factor through whatever item, options are endless.
Without diving too deep, some classes need serious works or buffs, it doesn't matter if the design believes it's good or not, it has to be the people playing that believes it's good or not, and quite frankly, a lot of skill-trees are simply outdated or too weak to compete. Spear-zon, Javazon, Axe barb, Many Druid builds outside of Bear for Labs, Psionic caster sin, Holy Melee Paladin, Xbow Necro, the list goes on. Again, you need to give the people reasons to make them want to play these builds, you can always tweak them after. It's better to have too much than too little - you can always shave off too much (i.e. Catalyst Trap mid-season nerf), but you won't buff skills mid-season very often unless it was just changed and monitored, so the timing for these changes have to be in the major patch notes.

- Vampiric Icon -
remove this spell already. Assassin's highest skill level, what the hell is this.

- Amazing Grace weapon modifier -
I learned more about this recently, trying to make Spearzon work (hint - don't, its riddled with terrible mechanics and issues). 5% chance to avoid damage for 1.6 seconds. Like why would anyone want this 5% chance over Mega Impact, Thunderfury, or Area Effect Attack? Spears and Pikes are already archaic enough on this game, this is just cherry on top really. Really useless and unreliable.

- Amatoxin -
So do we have to google every time we have a certain level of this spell, like I've done my research and I know I have to divide my psn damage from d2stats by 4 to get Amatoxin's damage per second. However, psn damage documentation on this game is confusing as it is, even the main website's link says ==OUTDATED==, but I guess there isn't much to expect in the first place in the documentation front. If you just put the damage range values of level 23 Amatoxin even, which is what Astrogha's Moon set gives, next to the spell, I am sure more people would tinker with the set.

- Auction House, Patreon -
I briefly touched upon it earlier, but new players are completely discouraged from making sales in the Auction House in the new season, at the most popular times. This is a flawed system. Make your Auction fees go from 2tg - 5tg, with a 5% sale tax - so if the item sells, you can chunk 5% off. This hits the rich the hardest, and poor romjckba who just made a new account and deposited 10 dollars, can actually put up an item without losing 15-20% of what he just put in. Also keep in mind that new players often don't know what they are doing. They might overprice items and they might have failed sales. Do you really want the average Joe to have 2 failed auction listings for 32 TG out of their first 100? That's ludicrous. I assure you, you will have a much better economic flow if your listing fees go from 1-5 TG flat, with a % sales tax, 5% seems good to me. That's 50 TG off of a 1000 TG sale, not too uncommon in the first week. Take from the rich and give to the poor. Close the gap.

As for Patreons, I've been eyeing it for some time, and I feel like removing listing fees, or something like that should be an added benefit. I am sure you have considered it, but I do believe it's a good idea. In the end, do you want people to continue using the Auction house and trading items, or do you want people to feel the cons of opportunity-cost too strongly and deter them from making easy transactions? Both the changes I mentioned, however you want to implement it, I believe are in that direction - to encourage a better economic flow.

- Rifts, Dungeons, Dimensional Labyrinths -
If you want to keep Rifts and Dungeons in that nomenclature, entry tools to "Dimensional Labyrinths" shouldn't be called "Depleted Riftstones". That's just confusing. Make it "Fragmented Dimension" or something, not related to Rifts.
Labyrinths overall still feel quite unrewarding. If I want to find any documentation about Labyrinth changes, I have to always scan through multiple patch logs from the past, and I shouldn't have to read patch 1.2 and 1.4 to understand Labs in 1.6. Labs also might still retain some "challenge" factor, but definitely don't feel nearly as rewarding. I don't know why there isn't a flat-out guide posted showing the difficulty increases in each Labs as well as an explanation of the beastiary, encounters, Phoboss / Unstable Anomaly offensive/defensive stats, Magic Find / reward changes, the list goes on. The best resources for Labs from what I have seen is the notforkeeps thread with personal testimonies, and Vikan's T11-15 Trinity Beam video which pretty much changed the entire meta of this season. If I'm going to push past T10, I would like to know what I am dealing with, what resistances I would need instead of wiping 10 times to figure out that I need to stack
Zann Esu's Stone
Zann Esu's Stone
Jewel

Required Level: 100
Item Level: 115
Can be Inserted into Socketed Items
5% Cast Speed
+3% to Spell Damage
Maximum [Random Elemental] Resist +1%
, like is this really all that much to ask? More than 60% of your player base isn't going to bother going to Discord asking for help, half of them probably don't even speak English.

- Samael -
I've attempted this once pre-sigma, never again since. It just doesn't feel worth it to me, but it's a nice challenging goal. I will say however, even if Ben- might be a God at the game, to see any one person clear the hardest content in the game, and depending on how it was done, is discouraging as an end-game objective. In this case specifically, Ben cleared Sammy within 10 days of the season start, with a Sorceress using a crafted weapon - once again, this is largely due to his skill and immense knowledge of the game, but this is also an exceeding edge in multiplayer that influences others. This is not a complaint and I personally don't mind, but I can assure you that it takes the thrill and fun out of some competitive potential from casual perspective. I'm average Joe #325, I watch this video, and it's like watching a Game of Thrones season finale spoiler - sure I could just not watch it, but it's there and you know others know about it, like why is it even like this. In my opinion, entry fees to Samael being higher is a good way to control this a little bit, almost an act of "gatekeeping". What bothers me more regarding Samael, Labs and other harder content, is that I feel like while I can do it, the rewards don't seem to match the potential required effort (opportunity cost). Maybe this is just me, but it just feels like the game's "cracked" in 10 days, and will continue to be, by the small 10+ seasons-played elite community.



Conlusion



Is the glass half full, or half empty? Perspectives are everything in life. But perspectives are shaped largely by our environment and what we know, and quite frankly, there isn't much that you can know at first glance about this game, especially as a new, casual adventurer. I have to refer back to this comment because it's just so applicable, and I believe it's from a very well-reputed player.

Image

None of what I said is a matter of life or death. The game definitely isn't dying by your statistics, and I agree. But from what I see as a casual this season, all the most expensive items in last ladder have completely dipped with Wizardspike and UMOs/Zann Esu Stones only retaining value. Like I said, I think it's absurd to see, after playing this game for ~8 season, Khazra Plates going for 100 TG in the second week, Atomus Jewels selling for less than 200 TG, Wizardspike reaching 1.7k sales down to 200 in 5 days... I found an
Arrogance
Arrogance
Gothic Plate (Sacred)

Defense: (8308 - 9198) to (10078 - 11157)
Required Level: 120
Required Strength:
1350
Item Level: 130
Restitution
(Based on Restore Percentage)
+50% Combat Speeds
Physical Resist +15%
Maximum Life +7%
Cube with Trophy Fragment: Restore +4%
25% Movement Speed
Adds 15-25 Damage
+(18 to 32) to Stormlord
5% Deadly Strike
+(171 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+(40 to 50) to all Attributes
Requirements +100%
Socketed (6)
last season and sold it for 2.7k TG. This season, the first one sold for 800, another one today just now for 400. I am sure that I sold mine last season around day ~12 also. Is the game dying? Well, your stats say otherwise. But what does this fluctuation in your economy and market mean? Your elite 50-100 players are still going to play religiously throughout the season, on and off, and they will reach T15 Labs, kill Deimoss many times, and enjoy the company of each other developed over many years in this game. What about your casual base? What about JohnWick, what about sigmund, what about your new average joe that just found the hype in this novel mod for them? What about that guy that hosts a public lobby, wanting to interact and socialize with people, and see that nobody is joining, because opportunity/cost in this game dictates that you are better off soloing every content in the game due to easier difficulty and better looting? What level will he reach before he feels desolate enough to just call throw it in? On his 25th Fauztinville solo? After dying to Xazax 20 times because he doesn't understand what resists he requires? I don't know, there's just so many things that can be explained here that meets empty corridors.

If this game is reaching satisfactory numbers for you, great. Keep on, it's a great game and I personally enjoy every season, especially for the first two weeks. MXL drew over 4000 concurrent players at Sigma Season 1. This season, it had ~900 strong concurrent throughout the first weekend. Right now, it's 7:30 prime time EST, 12 days into ladder. There's 386 players in 239 games of MXL. This number is not going to increase next week.

Is the glass half full or half empty? Opportunity and Cost, gentlemen. It is why people don't play together in this game, along with lack of regional distinction. It is why more than 70% of the transactions at the start of a season involves Vesseldin, Bowazon, or Summoner items. It is why these same people proceed to sit in Dun and/or Fauzt for 100 hours, until the fire of their grind dies out - and if they survive, they enter Labs - probably with foreknowledge from prior encounters. Is it not disappointing to see, that the game's entire economy in this season is dictated by not what was actually buffed, but clear videos made by the best players such as Vikan's T11-15 Trinity Beam clear? That video alone changed this entire season's economy. In my head, this game can use an entire season for documentation, bug fixes, parity for some classes without many new concepts, just overall polishing, and it can be a much better game. But again - opportunity/cost. Is the large amount of effort, which is essentially a future investment, worth it for the potential gains of X amount of players, who may or may not spend money on the game? I'm not so sure, once again, it's a developer's choice to make. As for this casual scrub who spent a decent amount of time since last season regarding these concepts, I look forward to the big expansion coming, which I presume to be slated for around 6 months from now, so I guess 2021. I don't know. But I spent over 8 collective hours to compile this write-up so I hope it helps someone, if anyone at all. I wish nothing but the best success for this game.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, lol.

PART 2: viewtopic.php?p=432075#p432075
Edited by RequiemLux 3 years. Reason: Adjusted the formatting of the post to improve order and render it more digestible. Incorporated the feedback from the 2nd post.
PmP7x
Dark Huntress
13 | 1
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Great Patron Badge
Patreon Contributor
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
First
User avatar
Vikan
Phoboss's Bane
177 | 171
Great Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 50.000 views
Great Love Badge
Earned over 100 cookies
Great Supporter Badge
Donated 5 times
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
Great Patron Badge
Patreon Contributor
Great Auction Badge
Won 200 auctions
My biggest gripe about this game is the lack of high quality guides. The ones I've seen are written by well-meaning players who don't have years of experience to really lay out fundamental concepts. The players who do, in my opinion, simply don't write any because they understand that the things they write about will likely become the victim of next season's nerfs. The end result is the guides you see can best be described as... incomplete.
---
In my short time here I've learned much more from speaking to veteran players than from reading forums. This information, although given freely in discord channels is scattered among different people, across many seasons worth of patch notes, and in old wikis which players are taught not to trust because some parts of it are outdated yet it isn't covered anywhere else. I remember pointing out inaccuracies with the wiki and I was told by either Whist or Marco that if everyone simply corrected the mistake themselves instead of reporting it we'd all have an updated wiki. I've corrected a handful of things but some of the pages break immediately on hitting edit even if you added text and didn't mess with the formatting. And then Requiem told me to stop messing with the wiki. :x

As a new player it was frustrating to learn something that others regarded as common knowledge but there would have been no way of discovering that on one's own without perusing through years of old posts and at the same time also be expected to selectively discern which are or are not still relevant. Using one of your points as an example, Faerie Fire is a druid skill that gives avoid with hard points. As an item-granted it only grants the 45% wdm Pride Trail. This is common knowledge among experienced players but there would have been no way of knowing this if you didn't frequent general chat. FF is not the only offender and with the release of Relics, you see many people buy a relic for large sums of tg only to immediately resell it because it doesn't work the way they wanted because its impossible to put a base point into another class's skill. Yet the only information of how it worked was looking at its tooltip on a class that owns it.
Edited by Vikan 3 years.
Milkshake
Abomination
142 | 17
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
3st.

Solid points overall. Encapsulates most of my complaints with the game, including the Discord attitude toward any inquiring members.
User avatar
Marco
Team Member
1952 | 1347
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Legendary Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 250.000 views
Legendary Love Badge
Earned over 500 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Multiplayer Badge
Has won a multiplayer contest
Legendary Contribution Badge
Median XL Team Member
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
A few notes.

1) There's multiple events organized by the staff, nearly every season. Maybe you have missed the recent speedrun event. The event you mentioned was done by him the way he wanted to make it, he did not contact the staff nor should there be any reason why we should take ownership of his giveaway.

2) Most information coming from discord (and sometimes forums) shouldn't be assumed to be 100% correct at all times, also developers or experienced players don't necessarily know or remember mechanics in detail at all times. Which is why I suggested amazon basin (among other sites), because many core mechanics remain and have been extensively tested/debugged by the d2 community.

3) Wiki: this one is a community resource and not automated like the majority of our documentation. This means the information can often times be inaccurate or outdated. It is definitely a good resource, to get a general idea about a skill mechanism / visuals, but the numbers or mechanics are likely to become outdated at some point. None of this is ill intended, and anyone that notices an error can add their contribution by updating - one of the primary benefits of a wiki.

4) Relics: the +3 limit is a fairly "basic" diablo-2 mechanic, and it's why + Skill (Class Only) stats exist. With the same argument you could buy a high rolled Natasha's not knowing there is a 90% max res limit. If you think keeping the mechanic is bad I greatly disagree, +3 skill levels for a caster that owns the skill is a BiS socket in nearly all cases. The mechanic allows the skill range to be much larger in order to be usable by other classes that can't invest directly into it. See
Oris' Herald


Oris' Herald
Scepters

'ArcIgnVenFulGlaGul'
Runeword Level: 100
Orb Effects Applied to this Item are Doubled
+(2 to 3) to All Skills
+5% Bonus to Spell Focus
15% Attack Speed
35% Cast Speed
+(15 to 20)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
+(30 to 35) to Magic Missiles
+1000 Defense
25% to Energy
Physical Resist 10%
, the limit allows to put a ridiculous skill level and make magic missiles viable with neutraldin for example. We can try listing some of these mechanisms on relics page, but a lot of people unfortunately will still jump with an uninformed bid.

The same happens with base point synergies. Everyone *knows* the difference between soft and base levels in skills. It's why we max the skills we max, because gear doesn't scale these "base" mechanics in particular. Why would relics be any different? In a lot of cases (not FF, as I agreed, albeit not a relic) you can simply create a level 1 char and read a skill description. Yet people go pay 500tg for euphoria relic. ;-|

__

As far as specific items or skills go, a good amount boils down to personal experience. All of the oskill sets are part of a puzzle - they are two pieces which are in places that don't compete with other gear related to that oskill. This means getting the affix from crafts as well, or items as well as synergies with it. I disagree with several items/skills you mentioned which I've had success with. We do change items often but there's always going to be a "worse than" item.


Regarding balance, this is similar to items. If there's a build that's both strong and easy to play, this is the most powerful combination for a person to pick a build (the most asked question ever). This often makes it seem like the other builds are bad when in reality a lot of them are good, but require more skill switching or maybe the guide for the build wasn't updated to last patch. A lot of times these "opportunities for skillswitch" means you can do content more efficiently and often times cheaper and earlier. This is why when someone says bowzon bossing is bad, they never bothered to try phalanx. And there's a lot more evidence to support this; the fact that most sam kills were done by "unexpected" builds or builds that were considered bad (doubt anyone expected Psicrown to be first kill). The point is: the more mechanic or complicated a build is, the greater the payoff should be. Unfortunately a lot of people give up midway because the game is on the hard side already (or no guide as mentioned before). We are always happy to try make builds more intuitive and accessible, but usually trying to keep as many unique mechanics as we can until we are sure they need to go.

BTW - overall would be nice if ideas were split in diff topics at diff times so it can be digested. It's a bit all over the place and makes it hard to see at times what the point really is. Shorter (and concrete) material is usually better to have a solid discussion and have changes for the better happen. Unless your only goal was entertainment, but you seem to want things change for the better. Regarding discussions about "design philosophy" in general: everything that "is" isn't necessarily so because we think it's perfect but because we have to decide what to prioritize. If we aren't accounting implementation and workforce as factors of design then we'll hardly agree on anything at all, let alone lead to a productive conversation. A lot of things we would like to improve, but many times don't have time or tools to. But appreciate the effort in the writing, still need to go through some of it.


@Vikan: the whole idea that we nerf builds based on what guides are poppin' is just weird, it just happens that a lot of the times the strongest+easiest builds get a guide made for them. I always found it fascinating that people think we're trying to turn people away from the game by "nerfing fun things". And many times they get the timing wrong - thinking a certain nerf is due to a video/guide/person when we already done the change weeks or months ago from that event. So the idea of not making a guide due to fearing a nerf is just stupid.
Edited by RequiemLux 3 years. Reason: Actually I've changed nothing, just misclicked. Thank you horrible touchpad.
Istaryu
Harpylisk
1442 | 58
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Great Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 50.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
The main rewards for labyrinth are umos and effigies after you hit t11. No area in the game has bias for 2 different types of loot.

I agree with you about the faeire fire buried hawk. The oskill version not giving avoid, in bird culture this is considered a dick move. It is so damn rare that its fine if you get 10% avoid.
inori92
Pit Knight
113 | 28
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Patron Badge
Patreon Contributor
Great Auction Badge
Won 200 auctions
Marco wrote:4) Relics: the +3 limit is a fairly "basic" diablo-2 mechanic, and it's why + Skill (Class Only) stats exist. With the same argument you could buy a high rolled Natasha's not knowing there is a 90% max res limit. If you think keeping the mechanic is bad I greatly disagree, +3 skill levels for a caster that owns the skill is a BiS socket in nearly all cases. The mechanic allows the skill range to be much larger in order to be usable by other classes that can't invest directly into it. See
Oris' Herald


Oris' Herald
Scepters

'ArcIgnVenFulGlaGul'
Runeword Level: 100
Orb Effects Applied to this Item are Doubled
+(2 to 3) to All Skills
+5% Bonus to Spell Focus
15% Attack Speed
35% Cast Speed
+(15 to 20)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
+(30 to 35) to Magic Missiles
+1000 Defense
25% to Energy
Physical Resist 10%
, the limit allows to put a ridiculous skill level and make magic missiles viable with neutraldin for example. We can try listing some of these mechanisms on relics page, but a lot of people unfortunately will still jump with an uninformed bid.

The same happens with base point synergies. Everyone *knows* the difference between soft and base levels in skills. It's why we max the skills we max, because gear doesn't scale these "base" mechanics in particular. Why would relics be any different? In a lot of cases (not FF, as I agreed, albeit not a relic) you can simply create a level 1 char and read a skill description. Yet people go pay 500tg for euphoria relic. ;-|


Okay, so I appreciate the reply first of all, it's nice to see. Yes, I didn't spend my whole day conjuring another storm of words like a few seasons ago, for entertainment. In fact, I am always open to private communication about these kinds of things also, but I'm frankly just a random casual and don't think I deserve special attention or anything.

But I feel that this quote needs to be addressed, like no matter what. There's multiple issues I see in this quote alone, that I feel sort of "seams out", you know, the signs are there that shows why things might be the way they are.

So, regarding the basic diablo 2 mechanic thing. I actually had a feeling this might be a response, and I was prepared to simply add that, in Diablo 2, there weren't many cases where a bonus skill went over +3. Immediate example that comes to my mind is some of those coveted Rare Staffs that rolled like, +3 to Energy Shield for example. I can't remember their overall values, but +3 was sort of the soft cap that existed throughout the game, so I don't believe it's fair to assume your player base would know that. Honestly, even if you were right and the average Joe DOES know this cap existed for classes with the same skills, I sincerely believe that you absolutely should not operate under that assumption anyway. The goal of development is to encompass and bring in all of the player base, this assumption already isolates the "knows" and the "not's". Listing a simple line under the bullet pointers in the patch notes, that "Relics of x skill to the x class that owns it do not provide bonuses past the regular +3 cap", I guarantee would have changed many sales in this season already, and not left people so disappointed.

As I have also said, Relics seem to have an exorbitantly-low drop rates. On top of that, a lot of them simply don't provide the benefits that they seem they would at first glance.

I don't really know how to address this last section best, but I'll try to make it blunt. Regarding your last tidbit in this quote about base skill levels and everyone "knowing" these things. If someone else in this thread, or some other random but informed player said this, it would be acceptable for me, I would still complain about the lack of information because quite frankly these items are a pretty big deal without too much explanations for newer players, especially without extensive D2 knowledge. But the fact that you, who I see as the creator of this game, creating or directly influencing the birth of these items, is saying this, wondering why people are paying 500tg for a Euphoria relic, this is absolutely unacceptable for me.

In a way, you're like a mother that left a fork and spoon on the table for a child, while serving him cereal. You're looking at him pick up a fork like a dumbass, and you're going, "why is he doing that?". Does this make sense? This entire picture is off base. Even with admittance earlier, regarding development and experienced players not always being certain about mechanics and whatnot, if you are there questioning the decisions of these players who are often going to be "vastly inferior" to your knowledge and understanding, despite how logical and self-explanatory something should be, this is quite simply the design approach that I view as a flaw. What's obvious to you, despite how easy it might truly be, is not obvious to other people. This goes back to the builds you had success with that I may have failed with, and your comment about personal experiences. You can't document everything, but you can sure try to share some information in a more organised manner, much more accessibly. For example, the wiki can be updated publically, but I come here to look at information about Rifts and Dungeons, so why not the other things. Workforce, etc. I get it. I still think it can be better.

You're also the game's creator. Even if it's not your fault, you have to take some kind of responsibility. If you weed out every low-skill or badly functioning player in this manner by letting them drown in their own mistakes, especially due to obscurity of information, you're isolating nobody but your own player base. I really hope you can see this.

I want to add that, in line with my original sentiments regarding Relics being exorbitantly low in drop-rates, that I could not reasonably expect to find one relic that I am actually looking for even if I played thru the entire season, based on my 2 weeks of hard farming, out of the 320. So for example, if I am a Vesseldin and I want to collect Vessel of Retribution relics to get to the next level, I acquire 6 of them to get +18 to Vessel of Retribution, which adds like what, every level at endgame usually adds about 80-100 damage so, about 2k damage lets say. Add the Phys/MD bonus that are better than Jewels but you sacrifice stats, so it shouldn't be too much more. Now, how many do you expect an average player to get? I'm not talking TG whales like myself or Vikan, or Gods at the game who had a goal in mind even before the season started, and aimed straight at the objective with all his wealth of knowledge from prior seasons and sneek-peaks, such as Ben-. And then, compare that expected value to what your average player base would acquire through trading or just regular farming. In the end, I am slightly disappointed by what I perceived to be crazy new power spikes based on the patch notes. Did I jump to the conclusion? Perhaps, I should have thought better of the mechanics. But it doesn't mean my disappointment changes unfortunately. And I am saying that you can definitely change that, regardless of whether it's your fault or not.
User avatar
Marco
Team Member
1952 | 1347
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Legendary Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 250.000 views
Legendary Love Badge
Earned over 500 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Multiplayer Badge
Has won a multiplayer contest
Legendary Contribution Badge
Median XL Team Member
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Oh I most definitely agree the documentation and the info could be better. As I mentioned in my prior post, not trying to take a defensive approach but only explaining how things have come to where they are.

Regarding the euphoria example. A lot of it comes down to what your common denominator is. Are you making a complex game for grown people or are we trying to have kid learn to eat cereal? Euphoria relic does exactly as advertised if you make a level 1 paladin and read the desc, which doesnt seem like a great lot to ask if you're gonna dump 500 tg into a bid.

The word here is compromise. It's the same with skill and descriptions - they should be as simple as possible so anyone can understand and scale them without reading a manual. But you also want to include details for the experienced player so he can perfect it. It's the same as having complex math interactions or comparisions (every gear choice ever) and expect people to succeed at it without mathematical thinking. Is our common denominator too high? Maybe - but that is also one of the things we have going for us.
User avatar
Ekital
Grubber
310 | 11
Legendary Supporter Badge
Donated 25 times
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Only one thing I might add to this that seems to be ignored.

Faerie Fire missing avoid on non-druid.
Doom missing magic pierce on non-assassins.

In those cases making a level 1 character to look at the skill will only mislead you. I’m sure there are many more cases such as this..
inori92
Pit Knight
113 | 28
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Patron Badge
Patreon Contributor
Great Auction Badge
Won 200 auctions
Image

You get the point. Carry on.