Game is unplayable in Hardcore

Discuss Median XL!
Mr_Bill
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I am giving up on Hardcore Median XL -- and I may give up on the game altogether. :evil:

This week, I have had two different Level ~90+ Median Hardcore characters -- one an Iron Spiral Barbarian (around 6K HP) and one a Lightening Sorceress (4.5K HP) (both characters with at least 76% resists across the board, both characters with max or nearly max minions, both characters with well-geared mercenaries) -- 1-shotted by Nightmare Diablo (on TSW realm).

In both cases it appears that the cause was some combination of both lag and desync. (I have a witness, who is also a very experienced D2 series player, in the case of the Sorceress.)

For example in the case of the sorceress, what the interface showed me was that she was half a screen away from Diablo, and then all of a sudden her life bulb dropped to "zero" in a half-second... AND there was no sign of the Pink Hose of Death or the Flamestrike, anywhere near her.

Yes, in both cases I DID have Town Portals thrown up in the right spots to make Diablo waste his Bone Prison on them (note : this didn't stop him from throwing SEVEN Bone Prisons against my Scorpion Blade Assassin, who managed to Blink out of all of them before the Flamestrike hit). (But a 1-second lag spike would have insta-gibbed her, too. I have a few other characters that did successfully make it past Nightmare Diablo, but any one of them could just as easily have been insta-killed in precisely the same, utterly lame manner.)

Just for fun, I tried going back to fight (now) Softcore Diablo with my (now) Softcore Barbarian. I think I died 4 times before I finally got him. If you fight him up close (melee), apart from his many thousands of hit points, he first freezes you so you can hardly move, then he Bone Prisons you, and then he Flamestrikes and 1-shots you. If you try (for example) to use Fortress, he repeatedly Flamestrikes you, so you keep moving until he Bone Prisons you, and then you try to use Blink to teleport away; but doing the weapon switch costs you a precious half-second, during which you die to the Flamestrike. You can try using Spirit Walk to teleport on top of him, but if you misclick by even 1 foot then you stay in the Bone Prison and he Flamestrikes you. (Of course, your minions and the mercenary all get vaporized in the first fire nova.)

Please do NOT tell me, "you are a Noob who doesn't know how to play the game" (I have been playing D2-variant games since the 1990s) or "you need to respec" (I don't have any Belladonna potions, and even if I did, there is no credible evidence that ANY build can consistently survive against the kinds of network-related issues that I am encountering. I am aware of the A1 character reset, but a game that makes you completely change your build just to survive a specific quest is one that is badly unbalanced for or against certain kinds of builds.)

Please do NOT tell me, "you need a better network". (I have 11 Mb / sec ADSL).

I understand that the Median developers have tried to make the game "challenging" but doing so has had the side-effect of making it completely unplayable in Hardcore (at least over the Internet, and at least past Normal mode). When you have a game where the difference between life and death is made up of half-second decisions and actions, and you are playing it over a non-deterministic network like the Internet, just by the law of averages you are going to get killed sooner or later, through no fault of your own. This makes for a VERY unsatisfying gaming experience.

Of course, I can simply play these characters in Softcore, now. However... what's the point? One can succeed at anything, if one is prepared to <yawn> get killed 870 times to complete a quest. I suppose some people find doing so, diverting. I guess I'm not one of them. I like game quests that are do-able (although they can be difficult). Median as it stands today, at least on TSW Realms, badly fails that test.

Pity, because otherwise it's a pretty good game. Too bad your poor fantasy characters get made into helpless victims of dropped TCP/IP packets.
Philby
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Has anyone told you : play Single player ? You can still play with your friends, and trade items through the forum. And you'll still have plenty of opportunities to die, even without lag/desync.
Yeahsper
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In this game, it doesnt really matter how much past experience you have with D2, any of the other mods, or other ARPG's, this is pretty much a completely new game with it's own challenges.

No, it's not really meant for hardcore, maybe for the most dedicated players who actually knows the ins and outs of the game.
I understand that the Median developers have tried to make the game "challenging" but doing so has had the side-effect of making it completely unplayable in Hardcore (at least over the Internet, and at least past Normal mode). When you have a game where the difference between life and death is made up of half-second decisions and actions, and you are playing it over a non-deterministic network like the Internet, just by the law of averages you are going to get killed sooner or later, through no fault of your own. This makes for a VERY unsatisfying gaming experience.


Yes, there is several people around level 140, ~100 level 120+ (online on ladder), so it's possible to get past normal, online, just need more game knowledge and l2p.


Please do NOT tell me, "you are a Noob who doesn't know how to play the game" (I have been playing D2-variant games since the 1990s) or "you need to respec" (I don't have any Belladonna potions, and even if I did, there is no credible evidence that ANY build can consistently survive against the kinds of network-related issues that I am encountering. I am aware of the A1 character reset, but a game that makes you completely change your build just to survive a specific quest is one that is badly unbalanced for or against certain kinds of builds.)

I've never had any problem to progress to Hell without respeccing or really caring about my build (unless it's totally troll and worthless), and yes, it's a learn 2 play moment. Rule number 1: don't stand in the fire.
Later on when you actually get to uberbosses/areas, you WILL need to respecc for some uber quests, no it's not about terrible unbalanced builds, it just so happens that the uber quests is supposed to be hard and not every single cookie cutter build can do them.

Please do NOT tell me, "you need a better network". (I have 11 Mb / sec ADSL).

Not really relevant, but upload/download speed doesn't really matter for desync/delay/package losses.
Mr_Bill
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Thanks for the responses but keep in mind, I do have characters that got past this point in Hardcore, as well. It is just that they, too could have been (and likely will be, at some point) randomly killed in the same manner (e.g. random spikes in lag or desync). (For example I had a Necromancer whose health bar started dropping drastically while in the Bloody Foothills, even though he was miles away from any fighting. I "Saved And Exited" immediately and when I re-joined the session, he had like 400 out of 5,000 hit points left. This kind of nonsense is unfortunately par for the course.)

I was playing on TSW to avoid the many issues that I have had trying to do "local" network play, particularly to facilitate friends of mine (who do not live locally) to play with over the Net. (Also, at least in earlier versions of Median, the "locally-hosted" versions had a number of serious bugs. For example, if you put too many jewels in your stash, it would exhaust the RAM of the workstation that was hosting the game and Median would crash. Most of these issues, mercifully, do not appear to occur on TSW, at least as far as I have been able to determine.)

If Hardcore Median is not reasonably playable on TSW (e.g. over the public Internet) (which I think is demonstrably the case) then I feel the developers owe it to players to disclose that fact.
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Elendilli
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the design of this game was never intended for hardcore (initially anyway). we'll see how hardcore ends up on the development side in the future. that being said if you want to play hardcore you're free to challenge throw yourself into the dogshit that is median xl hardcore. i personally wouldn't be caught playing hardcore solo even though i'm well-versed in terms of game mechanics and dodgy lag / desync mechanics (yes this is a thing). i say i won't play hardcore but i probably will at some point because fun has no boundaries. i was mostly trying to emphasize that if you select hardcore you should understand what exactly you're getting into before repeatedly re-rolling and re-levelling characters on hardcore because you haven't played softcore and don't exactly understand just how punishing, time consuming and build limiting it will be (last two are a given).

it's not that there isn't enough players playing hardcore (or median xl for that matter) the problem is that this game is absolute dogshit in hardcore for most players - even veterans. it's unfair, one-shotty, desyncy / laggy but some people will play anyway even if some things are out of their control like dying instantly to desync due to the server lagging and not your internet. its like poe servers shitting itself and you login dead and they won't revive you because fuck you (i think if you die unfairly in median Marco might revive you but i dunno i might be lying). there are just some things you can't control this is one of em and there doesn't seem to be a solution unless whist says otherwise.
reeses_007
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If you come to play MXL with the expectation to play hardcore, you're gonna have a bad time. It's not built for hardcore, end of story. Hardcore in MXL is equivalent to the tailbone in a human, a vestigial relic.
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cnlnjzfjb
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Hardcore in MXL is definitely hard to play. I tried once, failed at lvl 83....
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BoneSpirit
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deal with it, make sure your build survives even with lag / desync
https://tsw.vn.cz/acc/char.php?name=VN-battucmnr
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Elendilli
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BoneSpirit wrote:deal with it, make sure your build survives even with lag / desync
https://tsw.vn.cz/acc/char.php?name=VN-battucmnr


believe this guy he took that uhm to labyrinth t12 on hardcore (maybe even higher). maybe you can ask him for tips on how to survive desync and whatnot since hes actually played hc unlike me
tranvanhieu
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Playing HC on Median is hard, it's not for everyone and definitely not for every build. But it is doable, hard stuffs only happen at level 120+
-Survivability is key, so you will need a character with these stats: Defense, Life, DR, Resist, Avoid, sometimes even Block. You can not get all that, but the more the better. You have to trade some of your clear speed for survivability.
-Some good candidates I can think of: full-vitality Unholy Meleedin, Bear stance Barbarian, Bear Druid, Melee Necro