Σ 1.7 Bugs&Feedback

Discuss Median XL!
Moasseman
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Scalewinged wrote:
Moasseman wrote:Cascade doesn't seem to proc any procs on bow dudu


Cascade now spell so it won't proc any on striking/on kill anymore. Only on death blow.

PS: Even not sure if ll will work... from one side it must since it's WDM but on other side - it's spell so maybe not.


Yea got dat but Imma assume it's a bug and not some odd intended decision
smartasss
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Dev's said it was intended to be a spell.
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Aryzen
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Class name for Necromancer exceeds its designated border in the Character Sheet.
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Aryzen
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Entrance to the Ruined Fane is still named "STAIR" after clicking on the stairs in order to access the area.
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Aryzen
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According to the patch notes, they can only wear body armors from the Sorc class:
"ACT 3 IRON WOLF:
May now equip Sorceress class body armors"

Splargh wrote:Act3 merc can't equip sorceress crystal swords.
The Dark Exile Runeword would have been a very good fit for necrolyte.
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Aryzen
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Hello,
On my Bloodmage when he had level 17 to the Flamefront skill, he threw around 5-6 fireballs,
Now that the skill is at Level 1, he throws max 2 fireballs. I've seen this beginning to happen, this bug/glitch when the merc is around level 15 of his skills.

suchbalance wrote:
Aryzen wrote:I am curious about this as well, currently my merc struggles with level 11 skills at level 112.


We are investigating this. So far it seems to be a display only glitch.
ParticuLarry
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Lately, I didn't feel much desire to play the game anymore. And I couldn't put my finger on the reason why I am so hesitant to make a new character or play one of my existing ones. So I sat down and asked myself: What's the biggest demerit in Median XL?

The conclusion I came to were 2 things. 1) The pathfinding is sometimes buggy. 2) The sprint mechanic.

So these are the two things I want to talk about in what I hope is a respectful and friendly dialogue.

Pathfinding

The first thing can be easily proven with a simple video like this: https://streamable.com/h7jp05
I can't remember ever having an issue like that in the original installment of Diablo 2. Just casually walking/running and suddenly you're stuck. However in Median, this happens to me quite often. I wonder what exactly is the reason behind the pathing not working properly anymore. The conclusion I can draw from the video I took: It happens when you are walking, something stands in your way, which triggers the changing of paths. However it might have to do something with the mouse cursor not hovering over passable terrain in that exact moment where the pathfinding should be triggered.

I don't think this is intentional in any way, so some change to the pathfinding/walk mechanics in the past must've allowed for this to occur.

Why this is a problem

The reason is rather simple. It's annoying when you're in full speed with your goal ahead and suddenly you are stuck and have to readjust your mouse in order to progress. I agree, it's not game breaking on first glance. But with how regularly this issue occurs, it can be said that this elevates your annoyance level on a regular basis. Especially since it can happen literally anywhere where assets or corners can be found. Games that have this innate "mechanic" are usually not on the top of my list. Sacred 1 for example had this huge bug, too. And I didn't even pass level 15 because it annoyed me that much in sacred 1.

However there's more to it. Aside from it being annoying it impacts the way you play. On characters that aren't tanky, I had several deaths in ubers because of this issue because I simply couldn't run away in time. This in turn feels like it's an undeserved punishment, just because I didn't count in an issue that was never an issue in the base game.

As such I now stopped walking anywhere near anything that could possibly trigger this in order to solve that issue. And this causes another issue. I don't think it's okay for players to be forced not to use everything the map has to offer. Let's take bushes in Tran Athulua as an example. They were placed there so you can avoid arrowside. But being stuck on a bush which then forces you to get hit a hundret times over until you're dead just because you wanted to hide behind a bush is simply not fun. Those bushes thus are potentially more harmful than they are usful, since even just running in circles would give you at least a 100% chance to avoid arrowside. Even running in zigzag patterns would be more efficient for avoiding more than 95% of all projectiles. Having to constantly reconsider your positioning on less tanky builds is again, annoying. And I'm not talking about your position in relation to projectiles fired at you, but about your position in relation to the assets on a map that could potentially mean your death. Especially in areas where lots of assets like trees or rocks that you can't walk over can be found, this happens regularly just because your mouse is over another tree in the exact moment where your character is supposed to change its path automatically.

Malicious tongues would claim this is intended to weaken glasscannon builds, as this was not fixed in the 3 patches I've seen so far, even though I already mentioned it a long time ago, but I wouldn't go that far because I don't see a reason why any developer would willingly include a trap for players that aren't part of the spectrum of those 10% of the population with fast reaction times whereas those said players that do have good reflexes have an overwhemingly huge advantage. This would only serve to exclude a huge number of potential players, which is nothing any game developer would want.

Sprint Mechanic

Let's sum up what Sprint mechanic is at first, so we all get to the same level of understanding.
When you sprint, your character runs faster in exchange for your defense being reduced to 0 and your block chance being reduced to 1/3rd of its original value. The duration of your sprint depends on the amount of stamina you have with roughly 10 stamina being used every second. With 50 starting stamina, this allows you to sprint 5 seconds, but this can be increased by items like TU Boots or skills like Pinnacle. Stamina shrines however give you unlimited stamina for about 4 minutes. The exact values in this paragraph are estimated, so differences to my statement may apply.

Sprint can as such be seen as an avoid-button, which can be used to quickly get out of a dangerous place. Or at least, that would be the intended main use.

Why was this mechanic introduced?

Let's keep it short and simple. I assume that this mechanic was introduced in order to not trap inexperienced players into sprinting all the time as this would negate their defensive mechanisms.

What are the problems of the sprint mechanic?

First of all, the obvious issue I personally have with that mechanic: It slows you down compared to the original game. I know that the base speeds were increased compared to the original game to make up for it, however that's not the issue. The issue lies in the fact that you're not able to go at full speed at all times. Aside from such typical game logic that doesn't make any sense (You slay demons that are 1000 times stronger than any mortal. But you can only run for 5 seconds? This in itself is just silly) there is the following issue:

Stamina Shrines. What I've noticed so far during my gameplay is that Stamina shrines are the only shrines aside from Experience shrines that I really look forward to for the simple reason that it finally increases my progress speed. But the issues comes when the stamina shrine runs out. Then you're back to square one and feel bad that you can't run all the time anymore, remembering the wonderful times back when you had an active stamina shrine, reliving those wonderful experiences in your mind as you crawl forward at snail speed. At least that's how it feels to me. And that's causing more frustration than it should.

I think it wouldn't be such a huge issue for me, if stamina shrines wouldn't exist. But removing stamina shrines would in turn make me want to discontinue playing this game because that makes the only option to progress quicker disappear.

Aside from that, this mechanic adds more complexity to the game. A level of complexity that only the top players can actually make use of. Sprint as a get-out-of-jail option as such is only available for the players that can actually make use of it, making the game less newbie-friendly, while granting an advantage to those who are already used to it. This level of complexity goes against the original idea of not trapping newbies, as it's another layer of game mechanics you need to understand.

But let's talk about whether the original goal of not trapping players into sacrificing their defense and block for speed was achieved.

To make it short: It wasn't. There's a hidden option that allows players to have sprint toggled permanently. Players take advantage of that of course and use it all the time so they don't have press ctrl at any given moment. As such, the idea that players don't get trapped into running all the time is not fulfilled because once they attack their stamina is refilled, and then when they move, they run again, negatively affecting their defense and block. They still use that option all the time.

So let's sum it up:

Aside from the player feeling let down when stamina shrines run out, this mechanic also doesn't achieve it's intended goal to not trap players into sacrificing their defense for speed and in addition to that it adds another layer of complexity that those inexperienced players have to learn before they can keep up with the top 1%.

As such I dare calling the sprint mechanic overall a failed mess.

The Solution

If you asked me, I'd simply swap the walk and run animations, increase the base walking speed to that of the original run speed or slightly lower and ban running from the game by setting the base stamina to 0. This would solve all 3 issues at once with seemingly no effort at all.
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RequiemLux
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ParticuLarry wrote:
► Show Spoiler


I have not much time on my hand but wanted to reply to this and address a couple of things. I hope you won't mind the overly short reply I'll provide to your long post, also sorry for eventual typos.

Regarding the pathfinding:
• I personally haven't been bothered by this issue to the extent you have, nor I have heard anyone beside you mentioning this. On first glance looks like something that could stem from the increased resolution: an unwanted consequence of having the cursor sets your path way ahead of your character compared to vanilla. This coupled with the increased movement speed can mean that reacting to immediate obstacles has become harder.
• I dunno if the "malicious tongues" you are talking about really exist or was simply an hypothetical situation, but, if players like this really are out there, lemme tell you that we are reaching levels of "the Earth is flat" conspiracy's idiocy.

Regarding the sprint mechanic:
• "not trap inexperienced players" has never been the main motive behind the change, it has been explained many times that the biggest reason was actually one you have already pointed out: the "get-out-of-jail option". Considering how you've called it, even without ever having played the game before, one can easily realize that the vanilla running mechanic trivializes a lot of the content one experiences. Instead now, with the sprint change, the not-so-well-thought-out original mechanic has been turned into a temporally-finite option that players can access to enrich the gameplay without trivializing 90% of the journey.
• "A level of complexity that only the top players can actually make use of". Now, even if this was the case, what exactly is the problem with experienced player having the upper hand on new ones based on their knowledge or game experience? With dedication or natural talent anyone can get better... this is part of what makes every game fun and addicting, even when not considering competitive ones.
• "There's a hidden option that allows players to have sprint toggled permanently." What is exactly this thing you speak of? Sounds like something that has to be solved, if it isn't already here, would you mind reporting it into this thread?
Squiggoth
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I am unsure if this is a bug or not since it's the first time I use these rings, but I am not able to use the mystic orb +100 defense on the unique ring "Assur's Bane". i'm a little short on gold and did not try other MOs.

I play in SP, but the char and all stuff was made and dropped after 1.7.
ParticuLarry
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RequiemLux wrote:
► Show Spoiler


Thank you for your quick reply. I don't mind if it's a short reply, since that just means you can get to the point better than I do :D

Regarding the pathfinding: If this is indeed caused by the increased resolution, would that mean it can be solved by changing the settings of Glide? If that is the case, I'm already satisfied. And no, the malicious tongues was just a hypothetical situation. After all, it wouldn't make much sense for the mods to do something like that as I stated before.

Regarding the sprint mechanic:
I'm talking about this option you can activate:

► Show Spoiler


Once you activate it, you don't have to press CTRL in order to sprint anymore, but instead you'll sprint at all times, if your stamina allows it. I call it hidden, because not every new player instantly jumps to the settings to rebind their keys and discovers that. And some people may not even know about it, though I don't think that's the majority.

I have this option, as silly as my character looks, switching between running and walking in a matter of seconds, activated at all times in order to maximize my progress speed. And as such, it feels actually terrible that this "Get-out-of-jail"- option is not used for its intended purpose (thanks for clearing that up btw) but can be switched on permanently, where you see at any given moment how fast you could be, if the stamina was infinite as it was in the base game, but isn't. This feels like I'm teased in a way such as: "Oh look how fast you can be! But not now.... but now! But not now..." and so on, which makes the sprint mechanic quite terrible for the majority of the game. Majority of the game as in: every instance where you don't need this mechanic to get out of jail or have an active stamina shrine.

Being able to switch this on permanently adds something else to the issue: It's not seen as what it's intended for, because in general it's better to just activate this and run through the content. Switching it off in turn makes your character feel so slow and sluggish, which is why I only turn it off when death due to lack of defense is actually possible. And that is very rarely the case, especially on rather squishy builds, where run speed is just more valuable at any given moment. However that also means I don't want to switch it off, due to how slow the game feels like all of a sudden once I do.

I guess I'm just used to seeing the running animation all the time, so it's hard for me to use it what it's intended for.

As for your second point regarding the sprint mechanic: This question can be turned around as well. What is the problem with allowing the players to run all the time? That's what the majority of the playerbase wants anyway, I assume. If it really trivializes the content, adjust the speed and done. The thing is that this mechanic is annoying for 99% of the game. You see these 2-meter sprints at any given moment. The only exception is the case when you find a stamina shrine, a workaround to this mechanic or when you can actually use it, which is hardly ever the case for me since the content of the game is so fast that most of the time I completely forget about that option. And if this is really implemented for the reason stated above, that it trivializes content, there are options to balance it to the point where the content is not trivialized, while still allowing the players to progress faster than they currently do if they were to walk only.

Another question that came to my mind while writing this is: Is sprint really a good get-out-of-jail-card when you have a free teleport every 10 seconds from a level 110 charm? I can see it being very useful in Kingdom of Shadow, but aside from that, a teleport or a minion is almost always better. And even in Kingdom of Shadow, you can just adjust the speed in order to balance it. Seeing how Pax mystica was the number 1 created runeword on TSW by a large magin, it seems like sprint is simply not useful enough to justify not using teleport, a better safety option.

With all the things mentioned above, I don't think Sprint is a good get-out-of-jail option. And for how annoying it is for 99% of the game, I don't think its existance is justified.