Best char and build for going SSF in HC for the first time?

Discuss Median XL!
Diaco
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Mr_Bill wrote:
Javalad wrote:Ignore Mr Bill. he seems to be bitter about the fact he didn't sail through HC.

Just check out the HC ladder to see why his comments are nonsense.


Should I say, "Just ignore 'Javalad', because his comments are nonsense"? (I can repeat ad hominem put-downs just as well as you can.)

For the record, it is ridiculous to claim that either I (or any other half-sane person) is "bitter" about "being able to progress in a video game". If someone gets "bitter" over something of this nature, they need to get a life and spend a little less time in front of the computer. (Which is, incidentally, why I limit the amount of time that I use to play Median.)

What I was asserting (and I will repeat again here), is that Median XL, because it was designed to be "challenging" in the sense of 'players with average ability, luck and gear, will (especially if playing over the Internet, given the possibility of dropped frames, lag and desync, and even more so if you are a casual Median player) likely die several times in attempting to succeed in some of the game's important quests', is thus (inevitably) likely to be very unsatisfying to play in Hardcore, for exactly the same reasons just denominated". I stand on this observation, because it is plainly true.

Proffering up lists like the Hardcore Ladder to negate this plainly obvious set of facts, is like saying, "anybody can play in the NFL... why just look at all the guys who made it on to the Tampa Bay Bucs along with Mr. Brady!". (How many good high school football players never made it past the NFL draft? You are engaging in a classic "Cherry Picking" fallacy here.)

That is, you are using a few very unusual exceptions to what normally goes on in Hardcore, to (weakly) claim, "Hardcore is easily do-able". Note what you cannot provide : "the list of all the dead Hardcore characters who never got anywhere near being on the Hardcore ladder". Unless you can provide an objective estimate of "how many Hardcore characters got killed, per every 1 Hardcore character who made it on to the higher ranks of the Hardcore Ladder" (and thus establish a meaningful ratio of "how 'hard', Hardcore is"), you can't credibly claim that (at least for most players of normal ability), "Hardcore is do-able".

My own guess, for what it's worth, is that for every 10 Hardcore characters that start out in Act 1 Normal of Median XL, probably 5 will get killed before the end of Normal mode, another 4 will fall somewhere in Nightmare (especially if they are melee and are not played ultra-carefully) and the remaining 1 will likely get ganked somewhere in early Hell. But then again... I'm an optimist.

Oh well. It COULD be worse. You could be playing back in 2017 or so and get your Level 12 Hardcore character 1-shotted by a Startled Witch that had parked itself right in the middle of the passage between the Black Marsh and the Tamoe Highlands (been there... done that). Will progress never CEASE?


Unless you "can provide an objective estimate of "how many Hardcore characters got killed, per every 1 Hardcore character who made it on to the higher ranks of the Hardcore Ladder" (and thus establish a meaningful ratio of "how 'hard', Hardcore is")" then you are cherry picking even more than the post you are criticizing, since you are basing this on your own experience... While there are many of us stating that it's completely doable. Easy? Of course not, since that's the exact OPPOSITE of the point of HC.
Mr_Bill
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"I cant even express how stupid this comment is."

(1) It's not one "comment"... it's several.

(2) Which one (pray tell) do you believe to be "stupid", and why?

(3) Do you have any comments that might be <ahem> a little more constructive than just a pejorative like "stupid"?

(4) I base all my observations and comments on this topic, on the personal, direct experience that both I and at least 2 other well-experienced Median players, within my circle of family and friends, have had to date with the game.

I should however have noted that Median, like many other real-time FRP games, is somewhat easier to play and survive in (both in Softcore and Hardcore) if you are in a multi- (human) player party and you properly coordinate what tactics each of the (human) players engage in. Conversely, if you do not diligently farm for the "right" items (particularly certain uniques) and try to move forward in the game just with whatever you happen to find on the way, you are far more likely to get 1- or 2-shotted as you get into the higher difficulty levels. (The biggest limiting factors are "too low Strength to wear gear that will provide a minimally-acceptable Defense Rating" and "too little money to buy gear-upgrading things like MO's and so on, with".)

But it's still "suicide" in Hardcore, at some point in the game. Where that point is, will depend on how good and lucky you are... but most players with average skill and luck will die before they get to Hell. I stand on that observation.
Istaryu
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You talk about luck like you are playing poker. There is no luck in this game, you can either handle what the game throws at you, or you can't. It is not unlucky if you can't, it is called being bad, stop blaming it on "luck".
Semigloss
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Aside from RNG, theres not much luck involved.

Just curious, what would y'all consider the LEAST viable build for HC? Kinda want to try it and report back lol.
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two handed sword melee only zon. show your skilz and dominate all the way to hell with only normal attack and a two handed sword :D
Diaco
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Semigloss wrote:Aside from RNG, theres not much luck involved.

Just curious, what would y'all consider the LEAST viable build for HC? Kinda want to try it and report back lol.


Bowzon: No defense, no avoid, no block, tiny hp pool up until lvl 90. You can probably handle normal mobs in most stages due to being ranged and auto-aim, but good luck with act bosses...
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Ekital
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Mr_Bill wrote:
nobrainnopain wrote:could also need some hints for skills and stats because its my first try with HC in MXL ;)


(1) Pick any character that you don't mind having killed (and thus ejected into Softcore). Doesn't matter what kind, they're all the same.

They're really not. Summoners are the easiest to play in HC, followed by most ranged builds and certain melee builds like hammerzon which have a good early to mid game. Certain characters can struggle like Wolf druid as they don't have access to their survivability mechanics or lack the damage output.

(2) Play it in Hardcore.

(3) If you are a decent Median player, you should make it as far as Normal Diablo. If you are good, you will make it through Tran Athulua and maybe make it to Nightmare by killing Baal. (Note : If you try melee'ing either Diablo or Baal and you are not very lucky, you WILL die instantly, especially if you are playing on TSW and you get lagged or desynced.)

(4) If you are both very good and / or very lucky, and you know exactly the right tactics to use given your character type (and you let your Mercenary take the dirt nap for you whenever possible), you may make it as far as Nightmare Diablo (if you are melee, you will probably die long before that).

Has nothing to do with luck, just knowing what you need at what stages of the game. I can reliably get into hell without dying on pretty much all builds.

(5) If you are both very good and incredibly lucky, and have perfect, fully-upgraded gear, you MAY be able to kill Nightmare Baal and make it to Hell.

Again see previous point.

(6) Have fun being 1- or 2-shotted by some random monster in Hell (the Quill Rats near the Cairn Stones are a great place to do this, but what about those Cruciators, eh?). If you are an expert player and are extremely lucky you may make it as far as Hell Andariel, who will kill you (again, especially if you are melee).

Honestly Andariel is not that bad you're exaggerating, just don't get hit by meteors and clear all the trash out first.

(7) Enjoy playing your Softcore player, and ask yourself, "why did I bother playing Hardcore in a game that expects you to die 3 or 4 times, to complete most quests?"

All base game quests can be done without dying and are meant to be done without dying?


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Johnny Impak
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Luck can be a factor on a few spots in the regular game, like when around Firebloods or turning a corner in Durance 1 and getting on a couple packs of cruciators.
Thunderbolts in early A5 deals lots of damage,especially coupled with broken souls. They killed some of my chars with maxed resistances.

Boss fights are not that bad. Just know when to move out of the way.
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Taem
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These replies are interesting. I didn't die once leveling from normal to hell until I started doing Ubers, then it was a slaughter fest. And not even the super easy and easy ubbers, only moderate and now hard ones. However... Having played exclusively HC on b.net back in the day, my play style is a bit different than most...

Always have summons to tank damage instead of you
Always max resists early on
Always do enough damage to not get overwhelmed or,
Prioritize defense and life over damage if you must
And most importantly specific to MXL, play through the game in SC first to understand what you're up against otherwise, you may just randomly die and have no fucking clue why do you didn't actually learn anything from it
Istaryu
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Taem wrote:Prioritize defense and life over damage if you must


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