Diablo 2 Resurrected

Discuss Median XL!
Ruubel
Heretic
442 | 5
A random thought - if it will be moddable, why not to port median over there ? ( at some distant future ?)
nochdomers
Skeleton
2 | 1
Primarch wrote:
Wasp wrote:It will be moddable which is good news for futur mods.

The question remains: Without .dll injection capabilities, just how rigid are the moddable parameters?

I know they simplified the modding process in many ways but I’m concerned that mods will be limited to map hack and such and not actual content...


It's hard to say exactly what is possible without detailed specification of what modding features the D2R team is providing. That said, a couple things to consider:

* Median circa the late-00s and early-10s did not actually rely on new DLLs at all. Laz developed it entirely via the simplified modding interface Diablo II's maintainers made available (various spreadsheets that could be read in 'direct text' mode or compressed into patch .mpq archives IIRC). Thus, many of the core features of the mod (such as custom skill trees, monsters, and items) obviously don't fundamentally rely on DLL injection at all, though perhaps the implementation has changed in the last decade. I remember this because, back in Ye Olde Days you just had to copy a 'patch.mpq' file to your D2 directory to play Median.

* Since modding support is a stated priority of the D2R team, and they've already promised expanded mod support, I'd hope/expect modding features for D2R to enable a superset of what's already possible in Diablo 2.

With that in mind, I'd be sort of surprised if a significant portion of Median couldn't be adapted for D2R (not directly ported), assuming they actually mean it when they say they support mods. Maybe there's some features that will have to be reworked/abandoned, and I'm sure it will take a lot of time, but history has already shown that many of Median's key innovations were achieved via tools Blizzard made (semi-)officially available.

ALL THAT SAID...I'm not a Median developer so I'm just making a guess based on some time spent making D2 mods/playing Median circa ~2007-2010 (plus an irrational faith in the people making D2R to do the right thing). It will be interesting to hear from the Median devs once more is known about D2R. Personally, the idea of playing some flavor of my favorite mod with shiny new graphics is pretty exciting. :)
Edited by nochdomers 4 weeks.
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Primarch
Mangler
459 | 20
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nochdomers wrote:
Primarch wrote:
Wasp wrote:It will be moddable which is good news for futur mods.

The question remains: Without .dll injection capabilities, just how rigid are the moddable parameters?

I know they simplified the modding process in many ways but I’m concerned that mods will be limited to map hack and such and not actual content...


It's hard to say exactly what is possible without detailed specification of what modding features the D2R team is providing. That said, a couple things to consider:

* Median circa the late-00s and early-10s did not actually rely on new DLLs at all. Laz developed it entirely via the simplified modding interface Diablo II's maintainers made available (various spreadsheets that could be read in 'direct text' mode or compressed into patch .mpq archives IIRC). Thus, many of the core features of the mod (such as custom skill trees, monsters, and items) obviously don't fundamentally rely on DLL injection at all, though perhaps the implementation has changed in the last decade. I remember this because, back in Ye Olde Days you just had to copy a 'patch.mpq' file to your D2 directory to play Median.

* Since modding support is a stated priority of the D2R team, and they've already promised expanded mod support, I'd hope/expect modding features for D2R to enable a superset of what's already possible in Diablo 2.

With that in mind, I'd be sort of surprised if a significant portion of Median couldn't be adapted for D2R (not directly ported), assuming they actually mean it when they say they support mods. Maybe there's some features that will have to be reworked/abandoned, and I'm sure it will take a lot of time, but history has already shown that many of Median's key innovations were achieved via tools Blizzard made (semi-)officially available.

ALL THAT SAID...I'm not a Median developer so I'm just making an educated guess based on a (non-Windows dev) CS background and some time spent making D2 mods/playing Median circa ~2007-2010 (plus an irrational faith in the people making D2R to do the right thing). It will be interesting to hear from the Median devs once more is known about D2R. Personally, the idea of playing some flavor of my favorite mod with shiny new graphics is pretty exciting. :)


I think the median Devs already publicly stated they won’t be porting Median over to D2R but, if their player base is clamoring for the transition, perhaps they’ll listen.
nochdomers
Skeleton
2 | 1
Ah, that's sort of a bummer. But understandable, given what a big haul it would be for such a small team.

Either way, hopefully the community at large can put something together for D2R...the graphics are great, but idk how long base D2 can hold my attention after years of playing it and discovering its horrible balance issues.
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Caleb
Rust Claw
82 | 2
Dadplaysgames4 wrote:$55 to do Baal runs again? with a little bit of sprinkles on top? Not sold

Ahaha total agree with this
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ixvid_
Gravedigger
189 | 1
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I like it, I think it looks great, definietly gonna buy this on my ps4. :D
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Aspirine101
Lesbimale™
374 | 0
Just leaving this here for people interested in a D2R median. This is Brother Laz's post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comment ... &context=3
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Cog
214 | 3
AzureGladiator wrote:It looks like there's no chance of Median XL ever coming to Ressurected :(

► Show Spoiler

Source: https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-2-resurrected/interview

Apart from the first line of that post, the Blizzard text quoted is pretty much it. It's not clear to me that Median wouldn't port - it all depends on what they expose as data and what they don't.


If it's everything bar the look of classes and adding new classes themselves (things Median hasn't done) but they do allow new maps, new bosses with new abilities, new skills and trees, new items and item uses... then it's not a problem. It may even be better if you can change stash size, create a shared stash etc.

If you lose some of the things Median does then... not so good. The other question is SP versus MP. I'd be surprised if they allow modding that can run on bnet, so will they allow modding and using private servers as Median does?

All unknowns for now. But Laz has said that if Median doesn't get ported then he will either port his 2013 version or make a new mod. That could be interesting.

Either way, the only reason Blizzard would make a D2R is because games like this showed them the long-lasting interest in D2. So whatever happens, hats off to the devs here - they made a great game survive and made it much better in the process. *hat tip*
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Aspirine101
Lesbimale™
374 | 0
According to that post, they said they wouldn't support "injecting code" (code editing/dll editing). Sigma has tons of code edits, so if it won't be possible to do them, it will be a big problem and current median will most likely not get ported. However, not supporting it doesn't mean it won't be possible. It just means they will not do anything to make your life easier in that regard, while they will, on the other hand, "support" data (.txt) editing by making less things hardcoded so you can access them in the .txts.
In fact I don't see how they can disable code editing unless the game is unplayable without an online connection. The problem is that the dll files will be completely different, so you'll have to search all over again for the exact places to edit the hex values, which is very time consuming.

Note also that some of the existing code edits won't even be necessary with D2R, such as auto gold pickup and ctrl+clicking items, and maybe even less code edits will be necessary if they're softcoding some stuff.

So to sum it up, and I'm far from an expert in code editing so I apologize if I say something wrong here, but the way I see it is that code edits will still be possible, but since the .dll files will be different, the median team might not want to invest the huge amount of time required to actually do it.
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Cog
214 | 3
Aspirine101 wrote:According to that post, they said they wouldn't support "injecting code" (code editing/dll editing). Sigma has tons of code edits, so if it won't be possible to do them, it will be a big problem and current median will most likely not get ported. However, not supporting it doesn't mean it won't be possible. It just means they will not do anything to make your life easier in that regard, while they will, on the other hand, "support" data (.txt) editing by making less things hardcoded so you can access them in the .txts.
In fact I don't see how they can disable code editing unless the game is unplayable without an online connection. The problem is that the dll files will be completely different, so you'll have to search all over again for the exact places to edit the hex values, which is very time consuming.

Note also that some of the existing code edits won't even be necessary with D2R, such as auto gold pickup and ctrl+clicking items, and maybe even less code edits will be necessary if they're softcoding some stuff.

So to sum it up, and I'm far from an expert in code editing so I apologize if I say something wrong here, but the way I see it is that code edits will still be possible, but since the .dll files will be different, the median team might not want to invest the huge amount of time required to actually do it.

If you're responding to my post, I think you may have missed the key point which is that they are exposing changeable aspects as data - this is so that modders don't need to inject code.