Calculating the base damage of Blood Thorns

[JustinPeters]

Hi guys,
I love to crunch numbers and min-maxing my damage output.
And for that i need to know the base damage of the skills i am using, in this case Blood Thorns

11% Bonus
This skill scales with vitality and the problem is, my character starts out with a 11% vit bonus because of 25 vitality.

So afaik i need to make the following calculation to reach my base damage:
Note: this is on a naked paladin without any other bonusses
Current (minimum) damage: 100 / 111 * 100 = ~90,1 base damage

50% Bonus
Then when i put some points in vitality i reach 50% vit bonus and this is my new damage:


Current (minimum) damage: 163 / 150 * 100 = ~108,7 base damage
Wtf? Shouldnt my damage be 90.10 *1,5 (50% bonus) = 135?

92% Bonus
When i put all my points in vitality i reach a 92% bonus

Current (minimum) damage: 230 / 192 * 100 = ~119,8 base damage

Can anyone tell me when i am missing here or doing wrong?

Also why does a naked lvl 139 character with no stats and just 1 skill point in (for example) lemmures deal 39-55 damage
and a naked lvl 7 charavter with no stats and just 1 skill point in lemmures deal 4-6 damage?
Am i missing some hidden level character multiplier?

[morphed]

Spell dmg also scales of character lvl

[Istaryu]

Yes, spells need to scale with lvl because of the skill lvl limit changes. Previously, the max lvl of your skills scaled with your lvls, now you can max your skill by lvl 26 or whatever, meaning that your dmg would fall off pretty hard without the level scaling.

As for the other part, thats very interesting.

[JustinPeters]

Does anyone know the formula for the spell damage scaling with character level?
Maby that's also causing the problem for my first calculations because apparently there is another multiplier (character level)

[mortimer_85]

Does anyone know the formula for the spell damage scaling with character level?
Maby that's also causing the problem for my first calculations because apparently there is another multiplier (character level)

2.0 brought some small changes to the damage scaling with clvl.
It is still linear.

Pre 2.0 almost all spells (with some exception like vessels and traps) scaled as for : damage(clvl = x) / damage(clvl=y) = (min[120;x] +5) / (min[120;y] +5)
Since real min maxing starts in endgame and the clvl scaling caps at 120 for almost all spells you can ignore the clvl sclaing completely as soon as you hit 120.

[JustinPeters]

Does anyone know the formula for the spell damage scaling with character level?
Maby that's also causing the problem for my first calculations because apparently there is another multiplier (character level)

2.0 brought some small changes to the damage scaling with clvl.
It is still linear.

Pre 2.0 almost all spells (with some exception like vessels and traps) scaled as for : damage(clvl = x) / damage(clvl=y) = (min[120;x] +5) / (min[120;y] +5)
Since real min maxing starts in endgame and the clvl scaling caps at 120 for almost all spells you can ignore the clvl sclaing completely as soon as you hit 120.

Thanks for the info.
You seem to be very knowledgeable, can you explain why the vit scaling seem to be much larger than the % in the description?
100 damage with 11% increased damage from vitality synergy
230 damage with 92% increased damage from vitality synergy
This just seems very strange to me...

[heamn]

if you have any source of spell focus, it will also reflect at the vitality % shown at skill tree, didnt go dig in deeper, but from what i've tested, lemures and blood thorns both scales best at 1000 ef cap, and about 2000 vit.

for scaling spell procs, i'd recommend investing into int too, ideally 1000EF cap andbalancing around 1500ish of vit + int, 2k is best if you could make it.

[JustinPeters]

if you have any source of spell focus, it will also reflect at the vitality % shown at skill tree, didnt go dig in deeper, but from what i've tested, lemures and blood thorns both scales best at 1000 ef cap, and about 2000 vit.

for scaling spell procs, i'd recommend investing into int too, ideally 1000EF cap andbalancing around 1500ish of vit + int, 2k is best if you could make it.

The screenshots are taken from a naked character, so no EF or %Fire damage.
I'm also 99% sure int (energy) doesn't increase Lemures / Blood Thorns damage (unless points in energy gives EF?)

[heamn]

► Show Spoiler

if you have any source of spell focus, it will also reflect at the vitality % shown at skill tree, didnt go dig in deeper, but from what i've tested, lemures and blood thorns both scales best at 1000 ef cap, and about 2000 vit.

for scaling spell procs, i'd recommend investing into int too, ideally 1000EF cap andbalancing around 1500ish of vit + int, 2k is best if you could make it.

I'm also 99% sure int (energy) doesn't increase Lemures / Blood Thorns damage (unless points in energy gives EF?)

For the energy investment, my bad, i was assuming that you are scaling on melee attack spell procs. just leave that out, as the topic was for blood thorns calculation, just realize that i wasn't helping.

That said, did not dig into how the calculation works,
just sharing that i've tested 1000 EF and 2000ish vit is the optimal value in terms of scaling lemures/blood thorns,
when you are at around 2k vit, start adding 1 points at a time and stop once you see the skill damage increase.
further than that yields diminishing returns.

[JustinPeters]

► Show Spoiler

if you have any source of spell focus, it will also reflect at the vitality % shown at skill tree, didnt go dig in deeper, but from what i've tested, lemures and blood thorns both scales best at 1000 ef cap, and about 2000 vit.

for scaling spell procs, i'd recommend investing into int too, ideally 1000EF cap andbalancing around 1500ish of vit + int, 2k is best if you could make it.

I'm also 99% sure int (energy) doesn't increase Lemures / Blood Thorns damage (unless points in energy gives EF?)

For the energy investment, my bad, i was assuming that you are scaling on melee attack spell procs. just leave that out, as the topic was for blood thorns calculation, just realize that i wasn't helping.

That said, did not dig into how the calculation works,
just sharing that i've tested 1000 EF and 2000ish vit is the optimal value in terms of scaling lemures/blood thorns,
when you are at around 2k vit, start adding 1 points at a time and stop once you see the skill damage increase.
further than that yields diminishing returns.

No problem, i appreciate the fact that you are trying to help.
UHM just dump every point in vit so it's not really relevant to stop investing in vit but i get your point.
I just want to be able to calculate what jewels are best for my paladin (example: does a 10 EF - 3% Fire spell - 1% vit jewel beat a 4% fire dmg - +10 vit jewel) so i know what crafts are better than the other.
And for that i need to be able to calculate the base damage