(2.2) Build balance in Acts 1-3 normal and feedback

Discuss Median XL!
Siosilvar
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Immortal2563 wrote:Sorry but I do not understand the point of this post at all. At a normal degree of difficulty? Who needs such statistics?


New players and anyone who likes leveling builds from scratch? The devs have put a lot into work trying to make this experience more interesting and smoother so that you don't just end up with folks trying out builds that are bad early on and quitting before they get to experience the whole game - veterans will of course just pick what they know to be the best leveling builds (or just power through on the strength of knowing what they're doing and how to deal with everything) before respeccing into what they actually want to play. Seems obvious to me.
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Lynderika
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Immortal2563 wrote:(Redacted)



I'm not sure I understand well your posts, but nobody ever talked about doing normal being an impressive feat or whatever, this is simply a feedback thread and the videos are just there to illustrate the build/Show the time/prove that I played it/whatever else, if anyone can learn from them or have fun watching that's cool too. The idea crossed my mind, but this is not a guide or whatever, and the tiering is mostly an eyecatch/tldr.

The problem about playing each char until hell or later is simply that it's too long. Do you have the time and motivation to invest in about 35 differents builds? I have if it's for 40min-1h each, but longer not really.
If you're willing we can wait for your lvl 1-150 entiere analysis of every char ssf, but I'd imagine by the time you finish many builds and game mechanics would have been reworked already so...
Siosilvar
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We can have this conversation without insulting folks' intelligence. Keep it civil.
Marrt
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Immortal2563 wrote:(Redacted)


Both early game and end-game needs balancing so that we can have smoother experience with all characters in the future, and Lynderika has done a lot of work to give feedback for the early game. You realize that leveling all classes and trying out all skills till 100-125-140 lvl is a huge work for a single person. Instead of writing your negative comments here, you can contribute in the bugs & feedback thread with your experiences, or take the example and make a thread like this for hell difficulty if you wish.
Conquest
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Look how they massacred my boy...
speaking of throw barbarian.
that guy was tier -1 in terms of bossing. It was absolutely deleting them. And now Snake Bite does 1 poison damage xD

Throw barb is supposed to max snake stance and cast Stampede once, not spam it. Then it's servicable, it will have good clear because poison damage will be enough to oneshot most of regular mobs. Bossing though, yikes. You rely on merc 100% of the time lol.

Any version that it not poison (maxed SS as soon as you can max it!) is total shit tier.

Overall great post and majority of main build trees are servicable at least. I'm usually starting to have problems in act3 - act4 because at this point I don't have access to honorific items yet and these are required to cap your resistances. Because there are barely any good gloves / boots / belts you will likely use honorific gear in those slots to get resistances and attributes.
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Immortal2563
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Do you have the time and motivation to invest in about 35 differents builds? I have if it's for 40min-1h each, but longer not really.

I have a lot of time but I only play caster dps and summoner, so only in this aspect I can comment. Every day, it is said that there is quite a lot of people here, so everyone would throw their five cents here and the guide would be ready, but mercy not on the normal level of difficulty. It offends dignity.

After completing the first two levels of difficulty, some of the build goes literally on the wall that is almost impossible to penetrate. Take a look at the posts from last year as 2.0 released and see how many there were on the "I can't go campaign on hell" topic. We are talking about the campaign and where is charm and lab making? How has someone to do t10 if there is a problem with the campaign?

Such a guide on Hell might make the creators of this mod think for a long time and would improve the balance in the end. The only problem is that the balance may be somewhere. I haven't seen even one post by the creators of the "what do you think about the balance in the xx version?" and to equalize all builds based on that. It is more rude from the version to the version (Spirit of Guia, OSkil removed and instead xxxx nests from which xxxx elemantals come out. Just out of curiosity, what would Lazarus rebalance look like if they removed the OSkil there? Fear to think. No possibility of disassembling RW into parts, new oils to make it something to trade, removal of XIs, RW need on of each type of rune etc ...) and more difficult again because it is too easy. Mod must be hardcore.
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Lynderika
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Conquest wrote:Look how they massacred my boy...
speaking of throw barbarian.
that guy was tier -1 in terms of bossing. It was absolutely deleting them. And now Snake Bite does 1 poison damage xD

Throw barb is supposed to max snake stance and cast Stampede once, not spam it. Then it's servicable, it will have good clear because poison damage will be enough to oneshot most of regular mobs. Bossing though, yikes. You rely on merc 100% of the time lol.

Any version that it not poison (maxed SS as soon as you can max it!) is total shit tier.

Overall great post and majority of main build trees are servicable at least. I'm usually starting to have problems in act3 - act4 because at this point I don't have access to honorific items yet and these are required to cap your resistances. Because there are barely any good gloves / boots / belts you will likely use honorific gear in those slots to get resistances and attributes.


I have been scared of snake stance damage before it has many points into it, so I stayed with lion all the way with all my barbs, but I've been told that by the end of A2 it was ok to use Snake. Although, even if it does ok, stampede doesn't look like a very good skill even for spreading poison, especially when the aternatives are earthquake or ww. From my understanding, Overkill is fine, Fortress strong, Screaming eagle as well (but it doesn't synergise with others throw skills haha) but yeah we're far from few patches ago, when snake bite one shotted bosses. Now It's a weird spot, especially when Guard Tower is league above what any "normal" throwbarb would do.

A4-5 resists usually are ok for me, I often drop enough resists gems/runes by that point, but end A3 have a few scary mobs for sure, especially in term of fire/light.

To Immortal : I have yet to experiment a class that struggle in hell campaign, so I can't even comment. I also don't find nor remember the topic you mention.
Vizaru
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beautiful post, lyn. I have been pondering this exact problem of the viability of builds in the very early game. I tested out most of the builds for a few levels to just see what I might like, and I had felt that some builds were very bad (like throwing barb). I was worried it was just me being bad or whatever since I'm still relatively new to sigma in comparison to my experience with median in general.

my sense was that every build should be able to AoE down trash packs by level 5 and have some way to focus down single targets by andariel, otherwise the build feels garbage to level. I think you have done a wonderful job of fleshing out that idea.

Immortal: your argument (while a valid concern) is a red herring. the fact that lyn is pointing to a problem with very early game balance does not imply that late game balance doesn't matter. They are two separate topics, and this thread is simply addressing the former.
eurekaaaa
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I can't speak for everyone but I will say that once your character gets to level 125-130, over 50% of them drop off and progressing to the endgame content becomes much more of a struggle. I think that's where the real balance issue lies ... Balancing endgame skills so that all classes have a fighting chance to complete all of the content and not just a handful of OP builds.
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iwansquall
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the only boring part for endgame i can remember last time is how emphasized the fauzt in getting your gears. (135 i think)
you could farm many other similar level uber, but fauzt is the one said will yield best loot per hour
before 1.0, there are variety of way (albeit needed RNG) since all uber levels are level 120

now with each of them have its area level, some staple from old day no longer the best place to farm
yes your build can farm duncraig easily, but it capped at SSU i think
i dunno about set, but by the time i found full set via SSF, they already useless

not to mentioned the reliance on tri-factor of endgame gear
new tiered rune, elemental rune & getting your build SSSU
meaning you need top of RNG on top of RNG (unless you trade)
even crafted gear feels bad since most proc feel utter trash

and without these gears, then you will struggle at scosglen
well at least you will farm super slow

*based from short 100 hours in 2.0, i just gave up after that. i assume new relic system & corrupted items (AND treasure goblin) might solved that issues