Old Version of Median Online for End of Season inspired by Drydek_TV

Discuss Median XL!

Would you like to play an old version of median xl between the season?

Yes
52
46%
No
43
38%
Just want to watch the steamers
10
9%
Can't wait for that :D
9
8%
 
Total votes: 114

kris441
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Up for voting, I am interested what the dev team would say? :)
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RequiemLux
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kris441 wrote:Up for voting, I am interested what the dev team would say? :)


Since those past versions are still downloadable and playable in SP and the core of the proposal is to revive them in MP, this implies that a number of basic features have to be officially provided: like relevant documentation, forum/discord support, moderation... also since Sigma's first iteration there have been a huge number of tranforming innovations that make tha gap with older patches all the more wide, and this would call for a careful compartmentalization between the two versions when it comes to other aspect of the project at large.
Now, all of this is mainly born from a situation in which the ladder dies off too quickly, so I'd personally prefer if all the effort and time that would be needed to resurrect older patches was to be channeled instead at the service of building a fun game experience that doesn't die off that easily and quickly. In my opinion resources should be put into the consolidation and improvement of the project version we are actually actively developing and investing into for the whole playerbase rather than a piggyback on dated patches for few nostalgics for a limited time in MP.
I think at core this proposal is simply at odds with the outlook I embrace when it comes to investment in a project, but this is just me. Do not take my comment as the general team's view on the matter but as that of an old fellow player that just happens to be on the team. Talk about what this thread proposes has actually happened in different occasions in dev during the past and more recent times too; nothing conclusive has been decided in the end due to other pressing matters and priorities, but know that the subject still remains on the table.

P.S.
No need to keep bumping this thread till the end of times (-:
kris441
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RequiemLux wrote:
kris441 wrote:Up for voting, I am interested what the dev team would say? :)


Since those past versions are still downloadable and playable in SP and the core of the proposal is to revive them in MP, this implies that a number of basic features have to be officially provided: like relevant documentation, forum/discord support, moderation... also since Sigma's first iteration there have been a huge number of transforming innovations that make the gap with older patches all the more wide, and this would call for a careful compartmentalization between the two versions when it comes to other aspect of the project at large.
Now, all of this is mainly born from a situation in which the ladder dies off too quickly, so I'd personally prefer if all the effort and time that would be needed to resurrect older patches was to be channeled instead at the service of building a fun game experience that doesn't die off that easily and quickly. In my opinion resources should be put into the consolidation and improvement of the project version we are actually actively developing and investing into for the whole player base rather than a piggyback on dated patches for few nostalgic for a limited time in MP.
I think at core this proposal is simply at odds with the outlook I embrace when it comes to investment in a project, but this is just me. Do not take my comment as the general team's view on the matter but as that of an old fellow player that just happens to be on the team. Talk about what this thread proposes has actually happened in different occasions in dev during the past and more recent times too; nothing conclusive has been decided in the end due to other pressing matters and priorities, but know that the subject still remains on the table.

P.S.
No need to keep bumping this thread till the end of times (-:



Thank you very much for the time and your feedback. As you can see, the interest from the community for some project in between the seasons is there.
Sadly this season also died pretty fast in about a month and half more than a half of the player base.
I am not an expert in private servers and managing multiple versions, that's why it was interested in me to hear from someone that has knowledge in this matter. I remember how I was playing on some private servers in the past, and they offered different version of diablo in their ladder vanilla+ PVP only mode+ eastern sun I believe. Furthermore, I didn't want to take from the time of the team away from developing the new version. Just told that when the versions are still there, they can be modified and made mp on the server. Also with the time back machine and the old medianxl website is still on there are a lot of the documentations, also i believe the community some people have them downloaded.
As i said, i am very thankful for the feedback, the interested from the community is there, probably you the dev team will come up with better idea and will surprise us.
Have a great day Cheers
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Caleb
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RequiemLux wrote:
kris441 wrote:Up for voting, I am interested what the dev team would say? :)


Since those past versions are still downloadable and playable in SP and the core of the proposal is to revive them in MP, this implies that a number of basic features have to be officially provided: like relevant documentation, forum/discord support, moderation... also since Sigma's first iteration there have been a huge number of tranforming innovations that make tha gap with older patches all the more wide, and this would call for a careful compartmentalization between the two versions when it comes to other aspect of the project at large.
Now, all of this is mainly born from a situation in which the ladder dies off too quickly, so I'd personally prefer if all the effort and time that would be needed to resurrect older patches was to be channeled instead at the service of building a fun game experience that doesn't die off that easily and quickly. In my opinion resources should be put into the consolidation and improvement of the project version we are actually actively developing and investing into for the whole playerbase rather than a piggyback on dated patches for few nostalgics for a limited time in MP.
I think at core this proposal is simply at odds with the outlook I embrace when it comes to investment in a project, but this is just me. Do not take my comment as the general team's view on the matter but as that of an old fellow player that just happens to be on the team. Talk about what this thread proposes has actually happened in different occasions in dev during the past and more recent times too; nothing conclusive has been decided in the end due to other pressing matters and priorities, but know that the subject still remains on the table.

P.S.
No need to keep bumping this thread till the end of times (-:


I'm an old player of median and I want to give my opinion. First of all thanks for your hard work to keep this mod alive. But the mod is boring as hell now, before it was over the top but in the right and fun way : eye candy proc, wtf oskill, cool morphing, the diversity of builds everthing that we don't find in its retail version.
You should stop thinking that you can make the mod a serious game that could compete with some triple A or Path of exile.
I think many people want a mod with tons of explosion and builds!
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Taem
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Caleb wrote:
RequiemLux wrote:
kris441 wrote:Up for voting, I am interested what the dev team would say? :)


Since those past versions are still downloadable and playable in SP and the core of the proposal is to revive them in MP, this implies that a number of basic features have to be officially provided: like relevant documentation, forum/discord support, moderation... also since Sigma's first iteration there have been a huge number of tranforming innovations that make tha gap with older patches all the more wide, and this would call for a careful compartmentalization between the two versions when it comes to other aspect of the project at large.
Now, all of this is mainly born from a situation in which the ladder dies off too quickly, so I'd personally prefer if all the effort and time that would be needed to resurrect older patches was to be channeled instead at the service of building a fun game experience that doesn't die off that easily and quickly. In my opinion resources should be put into the consolidation and improvement of the project version we are actually actively developing and investing into for the whole playerbase rather than a piggyback on dated patches for few nostalgics for a limited time in MP.
I think at core this proposal is simply at odds with the outlook I embrace when it comes to investment in a project, but this is just me. Do not take my comment as the general team's view on the matter but as that of an old fellow player that just happens to be on the team. Talk about what this thread proposes has actually happened in different occasions in dev during the past and more recent times too; nothing conclusive has been decided in the end due to other pressing matters and priorities, but know that the subject still remains on the table.

P.S.
No need to keep bumping this thread till the end of times (-:


I'm an old player of median and I want to give my opinion. First of all thanks for your hard work to keep this mod alive. But the mod is boring as hell now, before it was over the top but in the right and fun way : eye candy proc, wtf oskill, cool morphing, the diversity of builds everthing that we don't find in its retail version.
You should stop thinking that you can make the mod a serious game that could compete with some triple A or Path of exile.
I think many people want a mod with tons of explosion and builds!


I think the problem is all the "fun" aspects were removed to make the game easier for new players.

REMOVED:

*Punisher traps. Now what's the point of a trapped chest?
*K3K. The old mechanic was grueling but insanely fun and rewarding. Now it's a fucking mindless slugfest. If I wanted that, I'd play vanilla all day...
*Duncraig. Teleport areas meant you had to have FAST reflexes when porting to a new location to get get swarmed and die! It was FUN. Now, another fucking mindless slugfest.
*Fautz: the secret hidden passages and hidden teleport areas were rewarding to find and FUN, felt like you discovered something you weren't supposed to. Making the maps all uniform killed the fun.
*Butcher. Yo, how fucking difficult was it to stand in the circle while getting whacked? Not hard, but definitely challenging and once again, FUN! The new mechanic... another boring slugfest.
*Creature of Flame. Bring back to 1hit TKO mechanic, because he's so easy now, it's literally the stupidest "Uber" in the entire game... He telegraphed his 1hit TKO before so I don't understand why it was removed to begin with...
*Same with The Countess, although I can see removing these mechanics from the standard game and reserving them for Ubers, but removing them entirely? Come on...

Look, a lot of work was done on the skills and while I was one who had a strong opinion of skills in the past, I've seen a lot of progress into making them way better, especially with Relics, really opens up build diversity so bravo on that devs. However, you ***ked up on the "FUN" portion of the game dumbing it down soooooo much, you straight up made most of the content BORING!! Bring back the mechanics I listed above and return the game back to an exciting state!
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RequiemLux
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Caleb wrote:
► Show Spoiler


First, let me assure you that nobody in their right mind thinks we are here to compete with triple A titles and even less PoE; second, let me assure you that everybody here but the game engine likes fancy effects and explosions, many things are the way they are for reasons that might surprise you how closely related to technical limitations are rather than arbitrary choices or unscrutable "visions".
For whacky OP stuff or balance related stuff, that's another story. I'm not sure what you're referring exactly with "diversity of builds" since, at least on paper, current version is one of the most prolific in that sense, but I'll assume you meant "viability" of different builds and we can surely improve on that. It is a set of factors that goes from strict parametric calibrations on all sort of things to macro-cosmos such as itemizetion at large. It is a very huge set of variables that we are constantly adjusting to strike a good balance to keep the game engaging and fair. Have we succeeded and figured it all out? ofc not, not even close. Have we failed in our quest? not by a long shot. Fun is a subjective thing and often there is a lot of overlapping between unfun and fun when it comes to the subjective view of a playerbase. If we were to going by the numbers alone then mxl has never ever been so appreciated as of recent times, community is freaking huge, number of people on dead ladder time is often comparable to that of prime time of old mxl, proportionally to the increased playerbase there have never been fewer complaints... But we know better than that, and the project is perpetually in active development exactly because something better can always be striven for and we're not blind to that. I dunno where you guys get some of the funky ideas you have, prolly is just lack of proper communication on our part (we know we are generally pretty lackluster on that front), but keep in mind we welcome healthy criticism when is reasonable feedback.

Taem wrote:
► Show Spoiler


Are you serious? Everything you've mentioned has been changed after years of complaints. The only entries I'd consider a slight exception are Butcher and K3K, but that is just because I personally don't remember them being complained about as much as the rest of the list (Butcher especially). K3K gonna change anyway (either in 2.4 or 2.5), at the very least substantially map-wise, to make it easy to navigate and faster to clear. Tho, I gotta say, Fauzt and Dunc mentions alone make me doubt if this is just a sarcastic post. Things can for sure be improved and made more enternaining/challenging/fun in many aspects, but you're going completely backward on it and feels pretty unreasonable.
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Taem
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And therein lies the problem.

Only the newest players had issues with those mechanics I mentioned because they had not experienced them in any game before. They were completely new and exciting. That is clearly what you are not understanding, the reason 41% of players want to play old editions of Median with the new engine. You just don't get it...

Yes, I am serious, and yes, those were fun mechanics, no joke. You guys have dumbed down this mod so much, most of the original player base from the Laz era has left because they've grown tired of the currently boring mechanics. If you can't see that for yourself at this point, then there really is no reason to continue this conversation. The fact you think I'm trolling for mentioning Dunc and Fautz shows you are so blindsided by what you think is "right", that you seem unable to hear unbiased opinions outside your own echo chamber. I'm reporting on the mechanics that I enjoyed previously, not trolling you. I am one of your old player-base. I have an opinion. Apparently, it is a shared opinion by MANY on these forums. YOU are one of the only people here with blinders covering your eyes. Just because people complained about features in the past does not mean those features were not enjoyed by the majority. While I do respect YOUR opinion Requium, I do not feel it is the opinions shared by the vast majority of your players. I could be wrong of course, but I really don't think so.
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AzureGladiator
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To be completely honest, I haven't played Median since Σ1.4 or Σ1.5... can't remember. I stopped playing because of a few things. Not sure if it's in the game now, but I was very tired of dealing with mule characters. I was hoping for a multi-paged shared stash but it was never implemented. Also, there were a few changes that seemed to pull away from what made Median unique to me. It felt like it was drawing a bit too much inspiration from other games and losing its own identity. I liked the unique approach to ubers, each with their own strategies, I liked making insane oskill builds, and I liked goofy item names like katar hero and the community set, and actually engaging with the community in the shoutbox - in a time when everyone can easily speak freely make memes/jokes without it being considered "bullying" or under heavily moderation.

I'd like to believe the mod would feel great to play, but I don't know if or when I will try it again. I discovered Path of Exile a few months ago and it has been filling my itch for this style of game. The theme isn't as cool, but the gameplay feels fresh and interesting.

EDIT: Not trying to take a dump on Median... this is just my personal reason for not playing. I trust that most of what the MXL team has done has a good reason or is necessary. I'm glad that Median is still around all these years later and still being updated :salut:
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RequiemLux
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Taem wrote:
► Show Spoiler


You know, I thinky you're right, indeed I "just don't get it".

I don't get how you can define those mechanics "completely new and exciting" while saying that only newest players had issues with them. This implies that people hated them by virtue of not being accustomed to them, but that simply holds no ground.
Years back, around the time I joined the team for the first time, I used to go on cleaning sessions of the forum (mostly to improve the accuracy of the search function and avoid it throwing a "search query ignored because words are too common" for key words), and I ended up deleting hundreds of complaints thread on outdated versions regarding that same mechanics you speak of. Many veterans have lamented in the years those mechanics you prise, me too, and a few of the ones you mentioned I used to defend myself alongside others (Death Projector not truly living up to its name, I'm the only one?). Are you really sure is it me the one "unable to hear unbiased opinions outside your own echo chamber"?

I don't get how you think 44 votes are indicative of any meaninful % regarding the playerbase. As I've explained already above your comment, we don't puth much faith in numbers alone because they tell a very limited and misunderstandable part of the story, feedback is more valuable; but, for the sake of the argument, lemme say that the number you're clinging to doesn't even register on any meaningful scale from which to settle accounts on prcentages of the playerbase. Are you really sure here we're talking about the "vast majority"?

I don't get why you point out that a part of Laz-era playerbase left because of the changes without taking into account that so many more came and stayed because of the changes. Losing a portion of the playerbase sucks badly, because they enjoyed the mod and in their eyes we ruined it, but for so many more is the exact opposite. Are you really sure I am the one "so blindsided by what you think is right"?

You have your reasoning to sway our minds and opinions, you've not really presented a convincing argument so far. BUT, maybe, it's me. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm simply limited. That must be it. I probably lack the sheer brain capabilities for the mental gymnastic I'd need to make sense of all this.

Why would we need some random player to be sentenced by a punishers circle of death for daring opening the already pitiful and lackluster chests?
Why would we need to punish accidental clicks of broken pottery while at the same time punishing someone for playing without the arbitrarly lag inducing audio?
Why would we need to frustrate players with even more randomly out of control unfair positioning of deadly 1hko mobs behind unscrutable walls forcing them to flip a coin with every teleport?
Why would we need to even try to value anything beside RNG Jesus and his ultimate invisible hand on the player's keyboard?
Why would we need to force farming into an ill-conceived map filled with invisible walls, annoying backtracking, slabs on the ground that arrest every other step you take and a farmable area that doesn't even match half of the actual map size?
Why would we need to replace one of the most varied reworked low level boss fight for the umpteenth "I fuck everything in that direction" boss encounter?

I would had an easier time trying to convince myself that afterall crafting points, pearls of wisdoms, smashing pots around Volrath and heroic shields weren't such bad ideas.
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Taem
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RequiemLux wrote:
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I already said that I respect your opinion as a developer so instead of responding to your opinions, I will choose to let others voice their opinions on this subject themselves. I do not discount the possibility my opinions on the matter have made me narrow-sighted and nostalgic if not unintentionally biased myself, but I try to be as balanced and nonjudgmental as possible and if I came across as attacking, I do apologize to you! My goal is to only address the subject matter and never attack the poster so if I made you feel uncomfortable, again I am deeply sorry for that. I was responding to what I have personally seen witnessing most of the old players leaving for reasons I believe match mine but atlas, I promised I would not respond to this portion so its time to move on...

RequiemLux wrote:Why would we need some random player to be sentenced by a punishers circle of death for daring opening the already pitiful and lackluster chests?
Why would we need to punish accidental clicks of broken pottery while at the same time punishing someone for playing without the arbitrarly lag inducing audio?
Why would we need to frustrate players with even more randomly out of control unfair positioning of deadly 1hko mobs behind unscrutable walls forcing them to flip a coin with every teleport?
Why would we need to even try to value anything beside RNG Jesus and his ultimate invisible hand on the player's keyboard?
Why would we need to force farming into an ill-conceived map filled with invisible walls, annoying backtracking, slabs on the ground that arrest every other step you take and a farmable area that doesn't even match half of the actual map size?
Why would we need to replace one of the most varied reworked low level boss fight for the umpteenth "I fuck everything in that direction" boss encounter?


Because it was fun... and it's not now. At least, not like it was. I know we have a difference of opinion here, so I'll leave it at that. Take care, and thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I appreciate that, regardless of our differing points of view.