Spiderssin / Spidernecro / Spiderdruid

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darkstorm
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Spiderssin build, which originaly was known for spare human being in the world under differ name, is a way to play assassin, necromancer, and - what i've prooved by my druid character build, last ladder - any other character in Median XL for ppl who prefer:
- fast farming
- preparation for hard uberquests
- playing duels betwen players
- experimenting with many different skills;.
In my opinion it is a bad choice for ppl who'd rather prefer to play ''one-hit'' builds or ''easy-build'' ones. Being honest - it's not easy at all to build that character.


I) Genesis:

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II) Build Mechanic:

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III) How to play?

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Taem
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I'm slightly confused. So what you're saying is you need:

100% Crushing Blow + Doom + Multi-hitting (per second) Skill

Mechanics: CB reduces a creatures (current) life by 1/4 on melee hits, or 1/8 on ranged hits, and bosses by 1/8 and 1/16 respectively. Each additional player in the game reduces the effectiveness of CB by x (players) because it does not scale with the increased monster HP, so four players would reduce CB on melee hits against regular monsters to 1/16. None of this is to say CB is bad, only stating the mechanics of it. CB is calculated before weapon damage.

So, regarding Doom, it adds flat damage to the weapon damage after CB is already taken out. Having said that, I wonder if a high level Bane wouldn't be more effective than Doom? For example, when a sorceress has -enemy resists, it's always 10x more effective than +elemental damage. I wonder if Doom and Bane can stack, or if the curses would override? I honestly have no idea, I'm just asking because I like playing Necromancers.

Regarding the attacks, so you need a physical skill to spread the CB and Doom if I'm not mistaken, which rules out all multi-hitting elemental spells, magic damage, and kills from minions. Is this correct? And you say ATMG is the best over other multi-hitting physical skills, correct? I'm just curious as to alternatives. What was that one multi-hitting necro xbow skill, Buckshot? Is it gone now?
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kissofaries
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CB vs bosses nowadays, most of them are CB immune... :wall:
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darkstorm
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So, regarding Doom, it adds flat damage to the weapon damage after CB is already taken out. Having said that, I wonder if a high level Bane wouldn't be more effective than Doom?

Depends - in case of assassin Doom just a few ladders ago provided... above 1000 additional damage taken to the target. Currently it's about a quarter of that number but it gains -1/3 magical res that imroves your dmg.
Bane reduced target's physical resistance but - for what I remeber - no additional damage to the target. It's ok, I agree - but I find Doom farely better in practice.

Regarding the attacks, so you need a physical skill to spread the CB and Doom if I'm not mistaken, which rules out all multi-hitting elemental spells, magic damage, and kills from minions. Is this correct?

Never said that. ;-|
It's up to you how do you play. If you prefer basing on range elemental spells you can go that way. I described the way I've taken and explained also the evolution. For me it was enough.

And you say ATMG is the best over other multi-hitting physical skills, correct?

Nither that I said :-]
ATMG Sentry used to be better but was never a strong skill, alas. It's usefullness lays in a frequency of attack and in fact of being a spell - cause 25 hits /2 second, and is recastable constantly, without any spell timers or cooldowns. In my build damage is not so important - with 100[%] chance to apply crushing blow to the target it merely disappear in the air before you realise it exists. Try it.

I'm just curious as to alternatives. What was that one multi-hitting necro xbow skill, Buckshot? Is it gone now?

I wrote about them.
Hawk Talons is a nice skill, I swich to it occasianly. Generaly each wd dmg based skill that can apply constantly damage with a big frequency is the best to be considered. I wrote about ATMG Sentry just available quite early in game and very easy in use. That's why I advised it to the players.

CB vs bosses nowadays, most of them are CB immune...

...and that ''most of them'' dies in a second with a few traps around, each dealing no more than 300 dmg -.-
Witch, Laz, Uldy, Kab, Azmo( as you can see I compared the differance between former and current one ;) ), ... Yes, hard uber bosses won't just die in a second, but I never wrote they are about to, as well as neither I wrote about it's puropse of collection so much cb.
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hellgrind
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So basically it's old atmg-procsin(dru/nec) but insdead of on striking and ele dmg it focus on cb ?
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Zennith
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Thank you for the interesting idea, regardless of if it's super effective or not, it's nice to get new idea's and see how they can be improved from others.
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ChuckNoRis
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few things about why this is bullshit in my humble opinion :

- ATMG nowadays has very low duration . if you get it from crafted claw + crafted assassin shield (around 4 seconds in end game after you get a lot of charms and gear with +all skills . before that , it lasts less than 3 seconds -> much less if you get it just from the shield only) + it takes a shitload of mana to cast , and since you are not investing into energy to boost the mana pool , you will cast just very few of them and then run out of mana . So : short duration , big mana cost -> not worth it . ATMG Cotw ? just +1 to ATMG ??? you can throw it away , the duration is just too low.
- ATMG is decent for focusing single targets , but as mentioned above by kissofaries, the important ones are either CB imunes (Same goes for "ignore target defense" modiffier ) or require purify to kill , so the combo of 100%cb+doom+multihit is worthless and unefficient .
- as for farming wide and crowded arreas , it's quite bad and very slow . Clearing a tran athula for example with it takes more than any other mediocre build would take , not to mention the squishyness of it without decent block chance and decent damage reduction (and no , life on striking alone is not enough to make you good at tanking in such places with hard incoming damage - every hit taken can get you killed)
- full gear socketing boulders requires a shitload of farming arcanes + a lot of unlucky rolls - this ladder where you can easy roll items is about to end soon . not to mention that each of them increases the requirements by 10% each , forcing you to dump some stat points in useless places just to hold gear (there are other ways of reaching 100% CB than those described by you above without wasting the sockets with boulders)

why am i saying all of this ? because i play ATMG assassins since more than a decade , while i had to remake my Lucky Strike build in the recent patches just because of the reasons above . it actualy dates since 1.F9 , started as pure ATMG (+judge rw) and updated each patch (it got murdered in the Omega patch , and it's still dead ever since ) , while in this era , ATMG alone is not enough , nothing more than a support skill to give a hand in focusing targets ,reason why you need some other skill to use as main attack in order to be efficient . Any build can clear Duncraig in less than 2 hours , if you have the pacience to die 500 times , but you can't call it "farming" if some can do it in less than 20 minutes with similar quality gear parts

- when was your build played? is it ment for median 2017 1.3 ? some of your gear is legacy (red book of summoning / inner fire oskill crafted belt ) shown in the "final gear" part . looks like you made it to work in 1.F9


i'd love to see a vid/stream of this build with mid game gear and 1-pointer Vampiric Icon doing tran athula/duncraig/fauztinville , then have a look in the mirror to see how long my beard has grown when those get finished .

Taem wrote: I wonder if Doom and Bane can stack, or if the curses would override? I honestly have no idea, I'm just asking because I like playing Necromancers.
curses override eachother , however , debuff curses (miasma + SoR for example) stack .


that banish on striking amulet he uses also overrides his doom, same as Bane would
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ChuckNoRis wrote:few things about why this is bullshit in my humble opinion :

- full gear socketing boulders requires a shitload of farming arcanes + a lot of unlucky rolls


Too expensive for you chuck? Didn't stop you from suggesting Zakarum stoning jewels in two of your gear suggestions so how is this any different?. Two more have those jewels in all gear except the weapons (which list auhe runes, lul). I'm not defending this guide but before you go complaining about a guide being too expensive, go [ctrl + f] how many times (xis) appears in your own thread.

If this build isn't fast enough you can always go back to streaming that paladin that took 4 hours of suicide teleports to get dunc charm. I measured my beard after watching that stream. It definitely grew.
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darkstorm
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ATMG nowadays has very low duration . if you get it from crafted claw + crafted assassin shield (around 4 seconds in end game after you get a lot of charms and gear with +all skills . before that , it lasts less than 3 seconds -> much less if you get it just from the shield only) + it takes a shitload of mana to cast , and since you are not investing into energy to boost the mana pool , you will cast just very few of them and then run out of mana . So : short duration , big mana cost -> not worth it . ATMG Cotw ? just +1 to ATMG ??? you can throw it away , the duration is just too low.

I wish to see you throwing one.
You got right in pointing current ATMG duration. It used to be about 7 [secs] just a few ladders ago. As you remeber, just two ladders ago it's wd based damage was lowered to even 9%. Even so, I could've, could, and still can play my build.
If I could do it - undoubtly you can as well.
"Shitload of manalost" is so big problem that werewolf druid seems better choice than playing my atmg throwable cotw one -.-
as mentioned above by kissofaries(...)

who mentioned exactly:
CB vs bosses nowadays, most of them are CB immune... :wall:

what you considered as
, the important ones

which is a differance still, anyway
are either CB imunes (Same goes for "ignore target defense" modiffier ) or require purify to kill , so the combo of 100%cb+doom+multihit is worthless and unefficient .

but the cb+doom+multihit combo i still fine. With this I completed those unconsiderable tiny ammount of locations, we cannot even dare to call uberquest areas:


Tal Rasha
King Koth
Zakarum Ear
Kurast 3000 B.A.
Butcher
Tran Athula
Dimensional Sanctum
Akarat
Lord Aldric Jitan
Legacy of Blood uber
Island of Sunless Sea
Rathma Square
Diamond Gates
Infernal Machine
Death Projector
Cathedral of Vanity
Duncraig
Bremmtown

It's obvious it's nothing to care one's mind about. So lemme ask you a question - why is that you did?...

- as for farming wide and crowded arreas , it's quite bad and very slow . Clearing a tran athula for example with it takes more than any other mediocre build would take , not to mention the squishyness of it without decent block chance and decent damage reduction (and no , life on striking alone is not enough to make you good at tanking in such places with hard incoming damage - every hit taken can get you killed)

And yes, 8 to life on 25 strikes per two second of 10 ATMG's traps is tanky enough for farming -.-

full gear socketing boulders requires a shitload of farming arcanes + a lot of unlucky rolls - this ladder where you can easy roll items is about to end soon . not to mention that each of them increases the requirements by 10% each , forcing you to dump some stat points in useless places just to hold gear (there are other ways of reaching 100% CB than those described by you above without wasting the sockets with boulders)

And you, great friend, in due to respect to the other players and forum members published your suggestions how to get this 100%cb instead of wasting a lot of time with crafting and farming - thank you for support. :salut: :clap:
I am verry sorry I didn't farm cotws with +xx to Wolf Stance or Elfin Weapons :oops:

Any build can clear Duncraig in less than 2 hours , if you have the pacience to die 500 times , but you can't call it "farming" if some can do it in less than 20 minutes with similar quality gear parts

Dunno what to say to that.

Just four or mb five ladders ago Bow druid could clear dunc / cows / tran athula / other farming areas just standing one place and spamming Cascade. Not so far ago, like two years backward, UHC paladin could rush whole dunc in... 1 min? And collect all the sigils and make Assur's Bane and deal with the boss just so? Do you mayhaps remeber bowazon that could do Uldyssian spamming barrage all the time( try to show me one of them doing it rn) .
I hardly see the purpose in what you just shared above. I could do duncraig with many characters, and many builds as well. Sometimes it took me mb 15 minutes with my old throwssin, sometimes about a half an hour with a necro, sometimes even more with sorceress - but each time it was funny. It was supposed to be and it was.
Once in my life I got to Mr. Painless bow. Here, on the Sin War some sort of a ''friend'', who was staying afk in the game for two nights to show me after that he ''bought something'' and went to Kurast 3000 B.A. with me to show me how thronfield one hit killed all immune skeletons. However, until now I don't understand the puropse...
Yet, having Mr. Painless i figured out... it made me no fun at all. It was boring as hell. After 20 minutes I sold it - just coz I couldn't stand this boreshit and moved back to my previous bow-based build. The guy haven't spoken to me until now.
And yet, again - I read some bubble about new ''farming'', skills, ''important'' uberquests, and even about idea's definitions.
For me game is supposed to be funny. I learned the rules of the game, discovered how to archieve another steps, created my own style of playing and improved it for years, each ladder and version - into what I wrote in this guide. Sorry for that. However - for me it was funny, but dunno why each new ladder less and less...

when was your build played? is it ment for median 2017 1.3 ? some of your gear is legacy (red book of summoning / inner fire oskill crafted belt ) shown in the "final gear" part . looks like you made it to work in 1.F9

The ''Spiderssin" character was created in the new median release ladder, it was the one when holydin and treewarden druid were so op and popular( ah, and shurikenssin) . However, as you can plainly see - I added also previous ladders and a current one. Merely I got no patience and time to recolect everything this ladder - I started a while ago in due to my travels.

i'd love to see a vid/stream of this build with mid game gear and 1-pointer Vampiric Icon doing tran athula/duncraig/fauztinville , then have a look in the mirror to see how long my beard has grown when those get finished .

I wrote what are the sequence steps to build it in the easiest way. You instead, knowing( I guess you red what I wrote in my guide before you wrote your post) what character arriving to destruction( still without, as I suggested, BRC completed) order to show assassin even without main build combo set to ... farm Destro TA with Vampiric Icon. Great idea.

curses override eachother , however , debuff curses (miasma + SoR for example) stack .
that banish on striking amulet he uses also overrides his doom, same as Bane would

True, however i lost my Beads of the Snake King somewhere. Felt weird naked.
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ChuckNoRis
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darkstorm wrote:I wish to see you throwing one.
You got right in pointing current ATMG duration. It used to be about 7 [secs] just a few ladders ago. As you remeber, just two ladders ago ...
last time you could see me was about 2 months ago when i've updated the Lucky Strike build . i've streamed it all the way . as i previoulsy mentioned , i've played and updated it for over 10 years of patches that came along .

ATMG used to last around 20 seconds in 1.F9 btw , also i know nothing about ladders , i never played MP and do not intend to do it in the future , therefore i don't care what happened there . are we doing builds for old patches now ?

this is not about if you can do it or not , it is about if it is efficient or not . My point is that there are ways of making it better if it would also use another skill with high aoe to spam vs crowds (no matter which one that is as long it covers a decent AoE and good weapon damage modiffier) , in order to clear crowded arreas faster , while keeping ATMG as support skill vs single targets




regarding the half the charms you got there with this combo alone , those can be taken with any build with just crap gear on , it's not some rocket science , as they are the easy ones . just because you could do them with this combo doesn't prove much , reason why i said that for the important ones (the actual hard ones) the build fails and is useless .




you actualy got your 9 LoS just in end game after putting the Cactus on + Metalhead + Bostk +Facebreaker . what do you do before that ? before you get that gear ? that's why i asked to see what can you do in mid game with just crafts on , as the road to those SU's needed for high LoS is quite long - the probability to find them in a short time without trading is very low , and meanwhile you need to use the mid gear on your way . or is it that whatever you do before that doesn't count and you can only play the build after you get 9 LoS ?

also , skipping the crafted claw with ATMG lowers it's duration to around 3 seconds .

ATMG takes between 200 and 300 mana per cast , depending on how many points and +all skills you got for it , while at 3k-ish mana in mid game you won't be able to cast so many , then you need to wait for the mana bulb to be regenerated as you don't have much mana after kill/mana leech/mana on striking gear ;)

darkstorm wrote:And you, great friend, in due to respect to the other players and forum members published your suggestions how to get this 100%cb instead of wasting a lot of time with crafting and farming - thank you for support. :salut: :clap:
I am verry sorry I didn't farm cotws with +xx to Wolf Stance or Elfin Weapons :oops:
this got nothing to do with COTW's my noob friend . ever heard of Akarat's nails ? no , you didn't . :lol:

darkstorm wrote:I hardly see the purpose in what you just shared above.
the point is that this build is very slow vs big crowds , and is only decent vs small packs/single targets . yes , you can do Duncraig with it , but it takes a looong time compared to what it could do if it used another main attach with high aoe , while keeping the ATMG just as support .


that was the purpose ;)