The Neutraldin

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ChuckNoRis
Flying Polar Buffalo
2718 | 58
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godsend1989 wrote:I`m having some sound distortions on my Bowazon when i fire Sun Strike, i fire so fast that the game audio is left behind sometimes does not play sound at all, is this normal???
no , it's not normal imo . still , it got nothing to do with this thread . you may post your feedback about Sun Strike here : http://forum.median-xl.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23335
deftwitch
Skeleton
3 | 0
Just speaking into the ether here about experience so far with the Melee Version of Neutraldin.
Lvl 102
Currently at end of Act 5 NM

Cake... just cake... absolutely destroying everything until Act 5 Nightmare. Then difficulty of build ramped up quickly. I did some quick regearing as I'd not had to do too much but as soon as I got to the Arreat Summit I had a hell of a time.

The only way I could do it was essentially getting a bit cheesey with summons. Up until this point I hadn't put points into the summon at the end of both skill trees as I didn't really need them. I literally in the middle of my 4th attempt at the Summit Trio just threw a point in each summon and hotkeyed it on the fly as my damage/defense was a joke to the one that WWs ya. The other two weren't all that tough but I could toe the line with him AT ALL and one mistep and I'm gone.

I'm still efficient at clearing most mobs as I walk around. Most certainly feel WAY more offensive than defensive. If I just stand there I'm toast but if I rush in I clear them before they get me.

****
ACTUAL QUESTIONS:

1. Damage?
I'm thinking I really gotta focus on getting some spell damage? I have the Hellreaper and Iron Spiral is doing great but I feel like VOR / VOJ are just secondary damage that isn't of much import any more. I haven't really focused on energy / spell damage at all yet. I assume that might help a lot with damage although that seems more focus on random mobs and not bosses (which is where my concern is right now) unless I REALLY jack it up.

(On stat page with buffs up)
VOR / VOJ damage is at like 500
Iron Spiral is at like 1800
Is that just stupid low?

2. Defense?
All my resists are like 77/78%
Defense / Attack Rating both at 20k
That seems to be SOMEWHAT reasonable defense? for a char that hasn't even started Hell yet but suddenly I don't feel all that tanky anymore so guess not!

3. Who tanks as endgame progresses?
Up until now I and my merc both just kinda ran around and f'd up the baddies. I didn't wait for the merc to do anything and didn't worry about him either. Still on A2... haven't switch to barb yet.
Now i'm wondering if the melee neutraldin should actually start using summons more as tanks / interference. Does this build later (lvl 120+) still directly engage bosses? Again could just be gear. Just wondering if I end up needing to rely on summons a lot cause if so...
IF I have to turn into more of a summon build cheese'n my meleese I'd rather switch to caster version?
IF this build really can go up to 140 and continue to stare down bosses I'll keep pushing and work on the build out more!

4. Thanks for guides
It's been really fun!
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ChuckNoRis
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indeed the Ancients on the Arrea summit are a pain in the ass since you are not packing much defense besides the Sacred Armor + Demiurge increased stats . but once you get passed them it's all fine . i had my merc tanking them , while i have positioned myself in such way that i could attack them without them attacking me .

1. the main damage is based on weapon damage ( Iron Spiral 1-shots most stuff in Normal , 2-shots stuff in Nightmare , fades away in Hell) , while the vessels are just as secondary damage until you get to replace your main attack to Exorcism , time when your whole setup and game style is changing (around character level 115)

deftwitch wrote:VOR / VOJ damage is at like 500
you must be forgetting how many times per second do the vessels hit . however , since you are not investing much to boost the vessels in early game , it's enough .



2. at this stage of the game , the best defense is the attack . as you said , you are killing them faster than they would come and hit you + you pack some nice life leech to keep you alive , besides the life regen you get from Sacred Armor and Vindicate . as long as you are hitting something , you will survive without any problem . the reanimates you get from Demiurge are also doing their job of distracting the opponents from focusing all on you + the barb merc will also help a lot .

once you replace your attack with Exorcism , it's more of a hit and run gameplay as the skill is spreading the damage to the enemies around . you will only need to hit one , and the chain reaction will affect the others in a decent AoE .

at that point you will only be using the Sacred Armor and Vindicate to regen your HP , while you will no longer be tanking so much "head-first" as you did in the part where your main damage was Iron Spiral . The Shrill Sacrament boots will also make an important difference for Exorcism's damage .

3. in end game you will have so much Hp regen from the 2 buffs above that you won't care much about being hit (eating an apple every few minutes is also a decent boost for that) + a high hp pool (between 20 and 30k depending on how you wish to spend your stats) + you will kill at a good speed , no need for summons or mercs (unless you equip your merc with a Khazra plate armor to boost you).

4 . i had a few days away from the Neutraldins and tried a few other builds that i had interest in, but i will most probably return to finish them in the next days .
deftwitch
Skeleton
3 | 0
Thanks for reply.

I guess the only other thing that is a PIA but I realize its worth it to really push build is the stat game with Demi.
It is kinda a pia to not be able to wear a bunch of my stuff if that fades away... but if I put dex/str high enough that I don't need to worry I'm giving up a lot of points I'd prolly have in VIT.

As someone said before nothing "lazy" about that =)... but gives a way to eek out LOTS of extra stats.
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ChuckNoRis
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i am not sure i understand your point . you don't need any STR/DEX investment to play as neutraldin . none of the 4 builds need that . you just need to keep Demiurge on all the time for the stats boost . the trick is to always keep it on . 20 sec duration , 16 sec timer . you got 4 seconds to re apply the buff ,that way no stuff will fade away . and in case it does , you just need to switch attacks to have them back on , just as advised in the first post of this thread in the Demiurge description (general info about the neutraldin) .


also , the only lazy build here is no.2
deftwitch
Skeleton
3 | 0
ChuckNoRis wrote:i am not sure i understand your point . you don't need any STR/DEX investment to play as neutraldin . none of the 4 builds need that . you just need to keep Demiurge on all the time for the stats boost . the trick is to always keep it on . 20 sec duration , 16 sec timer . you got 4 seconds to re apply the buff ,that way no stuff will fade away . and in case it does , you just need to switch attacks to have them back on , just as advised in the first post of this thread in the Demiurge description (general info about the neutraldin) .


also , the only lazy build here is no.2


Sorry for confusion. I get all that. Was just saying one has to get used to maintaining a buff like that. Just not used to a build where its that important.
Nothing lazy about playing that way... but worth effort as you get SO many free stat points essentially.
RobRoy
Destroyer
6 | 0
now that demiurge has been nerved and we dont get strength anymore: any recomandations how to gear? invest heavily into strength? how much? 250?
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ChuckNoRis
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yes, you now need to dump some points into STR in early-mid game . The TU body armor is the only one needing a lot of STR , so for this one you can replace some of the p.gems with -%requirements jewels (or get a honorific instead) . about 200-250 base str will be enough to wear all t4 gear in early game . same goes for the crafted armors , get some -%requirements jewels (you can use zod crafted jewels for more spell damage , as they can also spawn with up to -10% requirements each) . for end game if you decide to replace the belt and weapon due to high requirements , you will be able to wear the rest of the gear without any str investment as you get enough str from charms . valid options for replacing the belt : either Fascinating/Eerie/enchanted craft , the weapon may be one of those :
Dead Lake's Lady
Dead Lake's Lady
Grand Scepter (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 449
One-Hand Damage: 30 to 38
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (20/256 per Dexterity)%
+100 Strength Factor to Spell Damage
+100 Energy Factor to Spell Damage
+4 to Paladin Skill Levels
50% Block Speed
+50% Damage to Undead
+(21 to 25)% to Lightning Spell Damage
+(21 to 25)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
(21 to 25)% to Strength
(21 to 25)% to Dexterity
(21 to 25)% to Energy
Regenerate Mana +25%
Socketed (3)

or
The Pyre
The Pyre
Bonebreaker (Sacred)

(Paladin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 544
One-Hand Damage: 51 to 52
Strength Damage Bonus: (20/256 per Strength)%
+(2 to 3) to Paladin Skill Levels
50% Cast Speed
+50% Damage to Undead
+(15 to 25)% to Fire Spell Damage
-15% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+(30 to 40)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
+(17 to 28) to Flamestrike
Elemental Resists +15%
+(75 to 100) Life after each Kill
30% Gold Find
Socketed (3)

- with this one on you can also go for other gloves and use Flamestrike instead of Pyroblast as your active caster attack .
The Angiris Star
The Angiris Star
Angel Star (Sacred)

(Paladin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 602
One-Hand Damage: 55 to 58
Strength Damage Bonus: (20/256 per Strength)%
0.4% Vessel of Retribution Damage Leeched as Life
3% Chance to cast level 40 Boneyard on Death Blow
+(4 to 7) to Paladin Skill Levels
20% Movement Speed
+50% Damage to Undead
-50% to Fire Spell Damage
-50% to Lightning Spell Damage
-50% to Cold Spell Damage
-50% to Poison Spell Damage
+30% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
(5 to 20)% to Energy
(5 to 20)% to Vitality
Maximum Elemental Resists +1%
Socketed (3)

is also valid in places like Bremmtown or Vizjun