Melee Sorceress

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Solfege
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juniperleafes wrote:Do you think it's better to farm Duncraig for a Lachdann's instead of Fauztinville? Lower lvl mobs but sacred drop bias? I managed to get a unique Banded Plate to drop in Fauztinville but it was a Zann Prodigy ;_;


Yeah, you're fine farming only Dunc for Lachdanan's. Even though Dunc isn't as good as it used to be, it's arguably still the best place to farm SUs/SSUs.
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Solfege
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Quick first impressions based on patch notes.

Everything in the guide should still be applicable for 2.3 (except the Astrogha fight). Some updates will need to be made to reflect certain changes, but idk when/if I'll get around to it.

THE GOOD
  • Bladestorm, Fusillade, and Cold Blooded got minor buffs.
  • Attack Ground should open up new bossing strategies, but more importantly, hopefully AG can speed up slow af farming by making oskills such as Spiral Dance actually worth using. Here's hoping.

THE MEH (for now)
  • Not sure yet what to think of Determination and Fatal Focus (new passive skills). At a glance, they seem uninspiring and convoluted (much like Premonition). Maybe they'll make End Game phys builds viable again. :shrug: Just give Melee Sorc a warp strike already and call it a day.

THE BAD (maybe)
  • Not sure how smoothly Mooncall (formerly Moonstrike) will actually play. If it’s yet another generic buff you have to stop and recast every 2 to 30 seconds, it could be clunky and annoying, especially while leveling.

TL;DR
I expect Melee Sorc will still be a perfectly adequate utility build that nobody will play.



ETA (post-release)
  • Mooncall
    Really annoying to use, especially while leveling. It's a short-duration castable buff with no melee component that requires you to actually "melee" a target in order to cast the buff (or Shift+Click to cast, which is just casting with extra steps). Who thought this was a good idea?
  • Determination+Fatal Focus
    So far, not really seeing the benefit of going this route. These skills are obviously meant for Phys builds, but you have to gear your Sorc as an Ele build in order to get any kind of Defense bonus from Determination. So, if you wanna go Phys in End Game and take advantage of all that sweet DS from Fatal Focus, you're still stuck using "suboptimal" Ele gear instead of using actual Phys-focused gear if you want enough Defense to make up for losing 40% CtB. Stupid.



ETA 2 (post-2.3.1 update)
  • Determination
    Changed in 2.3.1. Now gives Base Defense based on Phys damage multipliers, which makes a lot more sense.

Quick test in Scos with Determination+maxed Fatal Focus and some Phys gear (End Game Base Kit, but using
Steel Punisher
Steel Punisher
Warp Blade (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (172 - 187) to (332 - 358)
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 400
Item Level: 120
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.13 per Dexterity)%
Area Effect Attack
Spiral Dance: +300% Bonus Magic Damage
15% Chance to cast level 25 ATMG Sentry on Melee Attack
+(1 to 2) to Sorceress Skill Levels
Adds 40-100 Damage
(15 to 20)% Life stolen per Hit
+(170 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
10% Deadly Strike
Physical Resist 10%
Socketed (6)
,
Dervish of Aranoch
Dervish of Aranoch
Kazarghand (Sacred)

Defense: (5959 - 6735) to (6832 - 7722)
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 550
Item Level: 105
5% Chance to cast level 6 Claw Tornado on Striking
40% Attack Speed
(5 to 20)% Life stolen per Hit
Stun Attack
Enhanced Weapon Damage +30%
+(115 to 143)% Enhanced Defense
20% to Dexterity
-20% to Energy
+1000 to Life
Socketed (6)
, and
Lightforge
Lightforge
Kite Shield (Sacred)

Defense: (4144 - 5055) to (5252 - 6315)
Chance to Block: Class%
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 550
Required Dexterity: 559
Item Level: 105
Gematria
(Bonus per Socketed Great/Elemental Runes)
+5% Physical Resist
-5% Elemental Resists
+25% Total Character Defense
1% Chance to cast level 10 Thunder Hammer on Striking
-10% Movement Speed
+(100 to 150)% Enhanced Defense
+(500 to 1000) Defense
+(1000 to 2000) Defense vs. Missile
+(30 to 50) to all Attributes
+(30 to 50) Life after each Demon Kill
Socketed (4)
w/4x Earth Runes). Note: this is not necessarily gear I'd recommend. It's just some gear I happened to have in my stash at the time.
  • Damage
    Single-target DPS was slightly lower, but overall clearspeed felt roughly the same or slightly better.
  • Survivability
    Roughly the same or slightly better overall, but Ele attacks seemed more dangerous. Defense increase wasn't phenomenal (went from ~200k to ~300k), but the extra LL+Phys Res seemed to be a decent counter to losing Mana Shield and having only 10% CtB (22% with Premonition, b/c I don't have enough points to max it yet).

TL;DR
Mooncall is annoying.
Determination+Fatal Focus aren't game-changers, but they will make End Game phys builds more viable.
The melee tree has become an overcomplicated mess.
juniperleafes
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Do the creators consult with guide creators at all? Curious as to why 5% dmg increases and skills that are equivalent to or slightly worse than what we already have were necessitated
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Solfege
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juniperleafes wrote:Do the creators consult with guide creators at all? Curious as to why 5% dmg increases and skills that are equivalent to or slightly worse than what we already have were necessitated

Maybe if you're part of the cool kids club. Otherwise, no. (Just look at how ridiculous the 2.3.0 version of Determination was. Wtf were they thinking with that?) But to be fair, I imagine keeping info on upcoming patches restricted to only a very small group of people helps prevent or minimize leaks. When release day comes, most of us are just as surprised and/or confused as everyone else.
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Dru
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Solfege wrote:
juniperleafes wrote:Do the creators consult with guide creators at all? Curious as to why 5% dmg increases and skills that are equivalent to or slightly worse than what we already have were necessitated

Maybe if you're part of the cool kids club. Otherwise, no. (Just look at how ridiculous the 2.3.0 version of Determination was. Wtf were they thinking with that?) But to be fair, I imagine keeping info on upcoming patches restricted to only a very small group of people helps prevent or minimize leaks. When release day comes, most of us are just as surprised and/or confused as everyone else.



I am gonna have to agree with Solfege on this one.
Gorghor
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Yeah taking valuable feedback just doesn't happen with this mod, the devs are so stubborn.
ChiefShonah
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How does moon call feel after the fix?
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Solfege
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ChiefShonah wrote:How does moon call feel after the fix?


Still a bit clunky and dangerous, especially while leveling, but it’s much more tolerable now after the fix.
stas339
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Well so far into this season melee sorc feels more like paper than an actual melee that's supposed to tank mobs and leech them. My current build is everything from the endgame list, but rings. In my mind melee sorc dmg ridiculously low, with the items I mentioned I can't even finish dimensional lvl 6 with full inventory of pots. With current build took me 30-40 min to tickle Uldyssian to death. meanwhile some amazons kill him in 2-4mins. So if there is a way to change my dmg big time and not being paper anymore will be great, here is the build atm https://tsw.vn.cz/char/MeleeShmatka
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Solfege
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stas339 wrote:Well so far into this season melee sorc feels more like paper than an actual melee that's supposed to tank mobs and leech them. My current build is everything from the endgame list, but rings. In my mind melee sorc dmg ridiculously low, with the items I mentioned I can't even finish dimensional lvl 6 with full inventory of pots. With current build took me 30-40 min to tickle Uldyssian to death. meanwhile some amazons kill him in 2-4mins. So if there is a way to change my dmg big time and not being paper anymore will be great, here is the build atm https://tsw.vn.cz/char/MeleeShmatka


Apologies ahead of time for the long post.

ULDY (and boss fights in general)

Imo, damage (per se) isn't the main problem. True, Melee Sorc DPS isn’t on par with the meta builds, but the mechanics of Bladestorm and Fusillade are what really hold Melee Sorc back.

First, they’re terrible against mobs. They have no real AoE, and the number of targets you can hit at one time is extremely limited.

Second, they’re ok if you’re only dealing with 1 target because all the missiles focus on that single target. But once another target comes into range, your missiles start bouncing between the 2 targets, greatly reducing your per-target DPS. This is why bosses such as Uldy take so long. Not only is he almost impossible to hit with Fusillade, but Bladestorm’s missiles have to bounce among Uldy and each of his Edyrem.

For a long time now, I’ve wanted to post a comprehensive critique on the current state of Melee Sorc in one of the "Bugs&Feedback" threads. Something that would explain in detail the problems, but also offer possible solutions. But I know it'll just get ignored because "Sorc is fine™." :eyeroll:

LABS

Ok, so I've been playing around in Labs with the Base Kit. Here are a few suggestions.

Some general things:
  • I’d consider Labs as the ultimate End Game content, so you want to be as prepared as possible before doing them (e.g. overleveled, fully-orbed gear, good Charms, and relevant Trophies).
  • Melee Sorc is not a top-tier build, and it’s certainly not a meta build. It needs more investment than something like Javazon or Poison Sorc might need.
  • Even fully maxed (best gear, UMOs), Melee Sorc probably isn’t making it past Lab 8.

Some things based on your NotArmory page:
  • Your DEX is really low. This is likely a big reason why your damage is lower than it should be. Melee Sorcs want as much DEX as they can get. By End Game, zero points should be in STR. All points should be in DEX. Any STR you need should come from Charms.
  • You’ve only eaten 299 Signets of Learning.
  • You’re only clvl 135.
  • You haven’t maxed out MOs on your gear. If you’re saving room for UMOs, get them first, then worry about higher Labs.
  • Ignore leech as an Elemental build. Life on Melee Attack is what you want to stack, but it looks like you have Starhawk orbed with Mana on Melee Attack instead of LoMA. This is reducing your survivability.
  • I assume you’re hitting all your Breakpoints? (Idk where NotArmory shows that.)
  • I assume all Jewels were crafted with a flat Attributes Catalyst and were luckied? (I don't see where NotArmory shows mods added from the Catalyst or from Oils of Luck.)
  • Do you have perfect, or near perfect, versions of Charms giving Attributes, Life, Skills, and Max Res? And do you also have helpful Trophies?
  • Do you have good rolls on your Umbaru Treasure (Teganze charm) and Corrupted Wormhole (Triune charm)?
  • Your Life seems kinda low. Are you at least hitting 10k Life?

If I think of more, I’ll add them to this post.

Edit:
Spelling and grammar + minor clarification regarding DEX.
Edited by Solfege 1 month.