2h Melee Necro

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kolyeah8
Azure Drake
178 | 0
yeah it was like that definitely last season and it was not changed. i asked in the forums before but go no answer.
no difference between 1, 2 or 29 points in it.
i literally just tried it and am sure :) dont have another beladonna on the char ^^


in midgame you get def for sure.

so because of this i suggest the following:

Max: Embalming,Deathward, Parasite, (this gives a lot of defense to death pact), Death Pact (this gives you damage, which is the most important PLUS def with every point).
1-7Points: Carnage.
1 Point: Talon's Hold . (we prolly get a little slow from and item and you need just 25 [right?], so 1 point gives you 13 which is nice
1 Point: Graveyard
1 Point: Rhatma's Chosen (I think you get max attack speed easily from equip, so is 1% DS worth a skill point?
Rest: my idea would be to split between dragonfire oil and famine. Both would give you additional DEF via death pact, and you can decide if you want additional fire dmg or ias+run speed.

I would not waste points in Blood Skeleton or Nightwalker, since you can get famine points for it..


ALSO Whats your source on the breakpoints? I have no idea where you go those from..
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Giu
Heretic
418 | 7
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
kolyeah8 wrote:yeah it was like that definitely last season and it was not changed. i asked in the forums before but go no answer.
no difference between 1, 2 or 29 points in it.
i literally just tried it and am sure :) dont have another beladonna on the char ^^


in midgame you get def for sure.

so because of this i suggest the following:

Max: Embalming,Deathward, Parasite, (this gives a lot of defense to death pact), Death Pact (this gives you damage, which is the most important PLUS def with every point).
1-7Points: Carnage.
1 Point: Talon's Hold . (we prolly get a little slow from and item and you need just 25 [right?], so 1 point gives you 13 which is nice
1 Point: Graveyard
1 Point: Rhatma's Chosen (I think you get max attack speed easily from equip, so is 1% DS worth a skill point?
Rest: my idea would be to split between dragonfire oil and famine. Both would give you additional DEF via death pact, and you can decide if you want additional fire dmg or ias+run speed.

I would not waste points in Blood Skeleton or Nightwalker, since you can get famine points for it..


ALSO Whats your source on the breakpoints? I have no idea where you go those from..

Ok, thanks, i'll add these changes, but i'll keep blood skeleton for bane and nightwalker as recommended for ubers with poison damage, how does this sound ?

Those breakpoints are from speedcalc, IAS from Deathlord form and FHR from necromancer (changelog only mentions changes to ias/fcr in deathlord form now, correct me if im wrong).

As for Rathma's Chosen, i would have to calculate how much EWD/Fire Damage you would lose from maxing it instead before making a decision, but given how much ewd compared to ds you'll have by endgame it seems better, the ias is nice too it means you'll need less minmaxed jewels to reach the last breakpoint.

Edit: Fixed the FHR breakpoints facepalm.
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Giu
Heretic
418 | 7
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
Glamdring26 wrote:Few more questions, why do you even put points into nightwalker? For poison length reduction?

Also rare marrow staves can have up to +12 necro skills, which can be used in early and mid game as a prebuff weapon.

Also it would be better if you name some unique amulet/ring alternatives, since getting a perticular one is pretty difficult thing to do, especially for newcomers.

For rings; Ring of truth, empriyan bands, Ripstar
For amulets: Athulua's Wrath, Angel heart
etc

Also for mo section, Larzuk's Round Shot is a great umo for all str stacking builds and why you dont use tcd mo's in armours? 1-2 Damage mo is pretty garbage and fhr is covered with jewels so i see no point wasting mo on them. Tcd should be pretty good since deathlord morph gives flat defense and it will get multiplied with tcd as well.

And i think set weapon is pretty crucial in late game boss fights because it has 20-25 slow. Astro, kab, witch, uldy and fights like that requires max slow and its a decent weapon.

Yea, Nightwalker is for the plr.

Added Marrow Staff for prebuffing :)

I think it's fine to use rares over those until ripstars, ill add angel heart also.

Added Larzuk's and TCD MO as an option.

As for the set scythe i don't think losing that much flat damage is better than 9 points in talon's hold to get 25 slow.
Glamdring26
Core Lord
365 | 5
kolyeah8 wrote:yeah it was like that definitely last season and it was not changed. i asked in the forums before but go no answer.
no difference between 1, 2 or 29 points in it.
i literally just tried it and am sure :) dont have another beladonna on the char ^^


in midgame you get def for sure.

so because of this i suggest the following:

Max: Embalming,Deathward, Parasite, (this gives a lot of defense to death pact), Death Pact (this gives you damage, which is the most important PLUS def with every point).
1-7Points: Carnage.
1 Point: Talon's Hold . (we prolly get a little slow from and item and you need just 25 [right?], so 1 point gives you 13 which is nice
1 Point: Graveyard
1 Point: Rhatma's Chosen (I think you get max attack speed easily from equip, so is 1% DS worth a skill point?
Rest: my idea would be to split between dragonfire oil and famine. Both would give you additional DEF via death pact, and you can decide if you want additional fire dmg or ias+run speed.

I would not waste points in Blood Skeleton or Nightwalker, since you can get famine points for it..


ALSO Whats your source on the breakpoints? I have no idea where you go those from..


Pretty much the skill build in my mind. But one last note, i hard from some friend that 30 hardpoint dragonfire oil gives like 1k fire damage. So it might not be good to give points into that. And famine only gives speed + lifesteal per point so that seems like a waste too. %1 ds per skill point would probably be the best idea since its basically %1 increased total damage.
Glamdring26
Core Lord
365 | 5
Giu wrote:
kolyeah8 wrote:yeah it was like that definitely last season and it was not changed. i asked in the forums before but go no answer.
no difference between 1, 2 or 29 points in it.
i literally just tried it and am sure :) dont have another beladonna on the char ^^


in midgame you get def for sure.

so because of this i suggest the following:

Max: Embalming,Deathward, Parasite, (this gives a lot of defense to death pact), Death Pact (this gives you damage, which is the most important PLUS def with every point).
1-7Points: Carnage.
1 Point: Talon's Hold . (we prolly get a little slow from and item and you need just 25 [right?], so 1 point gives you 13 which is nice
1 Point: Graveyard
1 Point: Rhatma's Chosen (I think you get max attack speed easily from equip, so is 1% DS worth a skill point?
Rest: my idea would be to split between dragonfire oil and famine. Both would give you additional DEF via death pact, and you can decide if you want additional fire dmg or ias+run speed.

I would not waste points in Blood Skeleton or Nightwalker, since you can get famine points for it..


ALSO Whats your source on the breakpoints? I have no idea where you go those from..

Ok, thanks, i'll add these changes, but i'll keep blood skeleton for bane and nightwalker as recommended for ubers with poison damage, how does this sound ?

Those breakpoints are from speedcalc, IAS from Deathlord form and FHR from necromancer (changelog only mentions changes to ias/fcr in deathlord form now, correct me if im wrong).

As for Rathma's Chosen, i would have to calculate how much EWD/Fire Damage you would lose from maxing it instead before making a decision, but given how much ewd compared to ds you'll have by endgame it seems better, the ias is nice too it means you'll need less minmaxed jewels to reach the last breakpoint.

Edit: Fixed the FHR breakpoints facepalm.


Wasting 4 points just to get some poison reduction seems very unnecessary since you can just mo your rings and amulets if you really want that.

Using Raptor Scythe instead of Bonesplitter for runewords might be a better idea since the necessary ias gap between them is huge but the damage difference is really not.

As for 1 point blood skeleton, cant you just cast bane on rathma's choosen? Im pretty sure it counts as minion and bane range is whole screen so you shouldn't need skeleton to cast that. You can even use edyrems from Judgement day charm if you cant use rathma's choosen.
User avatar
Giu
Heretic
418 | 7
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
Glamdring26 wrote:
Giu wrote:
kolyeah8 wrote:yeah it was like that definitely last season and it was not changed. i asked in the forums before but go no answer.
no difference between 1, 2 or 29 points in it.
i literally just tried it and am sure :) dont have another beladonna on the char ^^


in midgame you get def for sure.

so because of this i suggest the following:

Max: Embalming,Deathward, Parasite, (this gives a lot of defense to death pact), Death Pact (this gives you damage, which is the most important PLUS def with every point).
1-7Points: Carnage.
1 Point: Talon's Hold . (we prolly get a little slow from and item and you need just 25 [right?], so 1 point gives you 13 which is nice
1 Point: Graveyard
1 Point: Rhatma's Chosen (I think you get max attack speed easily from equip, so is 1% DS worth a skill point?
Rest: my idea would be to split between dragonfire oil and famine. Both would give you additional DEF via death pact, and you can decide if you want additional fire dmg or ias+run speed.

I would not waste points in Blood Skeleton or Nightwalker, since you can get famine points for it..


ALSO Whats your source on the breakpoints? I have no idea where you go those from..

Ok, thanks, i'll add these changes, but i'll keep blood skeleton for bane and nightwalker as recommended for ubers with poison damage, how does this sound ?

Those breakpoints are from speedcalc, IAS from Deathlord form and FHR from necromancer (changelog only mentions changes to ias/fcr in deathlord form now, correct me if im wrong).

As for Rathma's Chosen, i would have to calculate how much EWD/Fire Damage you would lose from maxing it instead before making a decision, but given how much ewd compared to ds you'll have by endgame it seems better, the ias is nice too it means you'll need less minmaxed jewels to reach the last breakpoint.

Edit: Fixed the FHR breakpoints facepalm.


Wasting 4 points just to get some poison reduction seems very unnecessary since you can just mo your rings and amulets if you really want that.

Using Raptor Scythe instead of Bonesplitter for runewords might be a better idea since the necessary ias gap between them is huge but the damage difference is really not.

As for 1 point blood skeleton, cant you just cast bane on rathma's choosen? Im pretty sure it counts as minion and bane range is whole screen so you shouldn't need skeleton to cast that. You can even use edyrems from Judgement day charm if you cant use rathma's choosen.

Maybe, depends if you can waste mo space in rings/amulets i guess.

You can reach the last breakpoint easily now though between dark power, max rathma's chosen and some ias jewels (and a5 merc motw while farming), guess i should add it for early/mid game then ?
I tried using bane on both of those it doesn't seem to work unfortunately :(
Conquest
Cultist
21 | 1
DFOil isn't really worth it endgame. Sure get it early for a nice leveling boost but this is a skill clearly suited towards multihit crossbow builds (it's even in the crossbow tree). Damage added isn't too high.
Glamdring26
Core Lord
365 | 5
So i did some math regarding your weapon choice and here is my results:

If you go with reaper's hand, and if you have an avarage flat damage roll, ed mo'd to %200, 6 jah runes socketed, it has 390-542 damage. it also has 0.0625 str to ewd bonus which is really small

On the other hand, almost perfect rolled Taha runeword on Sacred bonesplitter, luckied, 5 ed mo'd, has 360-500 damage. But it has also 5 jewel sockets, max slow shit ton of stat, and %dr on top of that.

So i think taha runeword is superior in every way to reaper's hand. If we compare the eth versions im pretty sure taha wins again just because it has more ed to multiply that eth bonus.

I figured a mid game set up for me like this:

Witchhunter hood(%stat, %Phys res)
Celestia's ribbon (%str, flat dex, %5 Phys res)
Erewan(Huge %stat, %Phys res)
Ath boots(%phys res) (Probably should be changed with 4 Ea runeword)
Decently rolled Hammerfist
Taha weapon
2x Assur ring(%max life, flat dmg, all skills)
rare amuelt with doom proc life and +all skills

Im still trying to make my runewords but i think this would perform better in midgame then your suggestions.(no offense :mrgreen: )
kolyeah8
Azure Drake
178 | 0
So, why is nobody considering
Tzeentch
Tzeentch
Necromancer Scythes

'Shaad'
Runeword Level: 100
5% Chance to cast level 27 Singularity on Kill
20% Chance to cast level 40 Punisher on Striking
+(146 to 174)% Enhanced Damage
Adds 63-125 damage
(31 to 50)% Bonus to Buff/Debuff/Cold Skill Duration
(17 to 21)% Mana stolen per Hit
Hit Causes Monster to Flee 5%
?
I used it in endgame last season.. the punisher dmg is insane, and since youre hitting 30 times per attack in crowds or at least 3 times per carnage you get a bazillion punisher all over the place. i didnt even use any +psn dmg / -psn res items and the punishers 1shot everything in duncraig for excample.

As for other items i used
Idol of Rygnar
Idol of Rygnar
Mask (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 540
Defense: (2068-2350) to (2208-2510)
+2 to Necromancer Skill Levels
(25 to 30)% Life stolen per Hit
Enhanced Weapon Damage +200%
Hit Causes Monster to Flee 1%
+(120 to 150)% Enhanced Defense
+(40 to 50) to Strength
+(40 to 50) to Dexterity
Target Takes Additional Damage of 500
25% Gold Find
+5 to Light Radius
Socketed (4)

after
Witchhunter's Hood
Witchhunter's Hood
Witchhunter's Attire Set
Cap (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 228
Defense: (2136-2611) to (2161-2642)
(16 to 20)% to Strength
+(80 to 120)% Enhanced Defense
(16 to 20)% to Dexterity
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
Elemental Resists +(31 to 40)%
Physical Resist 5%
Total Character Defense (16 to 20)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (4)

Black Void
Black Void
Heavy Belt (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 568
Defense: (3060-3442) to (3304-3717)
20% Attack Speed
Adds 10-15 damage
(10 to 15)% Life stolen per Hit
Slow Target 10%
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Defense
10% to Strength
10% to Dexterity
Target Takes Additional Damage of (25 to 50)
30% Magic Find
Socketed (2)

, dunno for midgame..
Candlewake
Candlewake
Splint Mail (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 563
Defense: (9032-11839) to (10077-13093)
-2% Base Block Chance
Additional Strength Damage Bonus: (32/256 Per Strength)%
(5 to 10)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(150 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
(15 to 25)% to Strength
+(2500 to 4000) Defense
Cannot Be Frozen (50% Chance to appear on Item)
Total Character Defense (50 to 100)%
Socketed (6)

was superior in def and dmg to
Strength Beyond Strength
Strength Beyond Strength
Gothic Plate (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 614
Defense: (7580-8361) to (9196-10143)
1% Chance to cast level 36 Pyroblast on Striking
Adds 25-38 damage
-10% Target Defense
150% Bonus to Attack Rating
+150% Damage to Demons
25% Life stolen per Hit
10% Deadly Strike
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
1% Reanimate as: Inarius
-5 to Light Radius
Socketed (6)

! Erewan for midgame
Akarat's Trek
Akarat's Trek
Light Plated Boots (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 561
Defense: (1960-2352) to (2170-2604)
2% Chance to cast level 30 Thunder Hammer Nova on Melee Attack
2% Chance to cast level 30 Thunder Wave on Melee Attack
2% Chance to cast level 30 Hammertime on Melee Attack
(0 to 40)% Movement Speed
+(15 to 20) to Charged Strike
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(100 to 150)%
+(150 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
10% to All Attributes
+10 to Light Radius
Socketed (4)

or
Knight's Grace
Knight's Grace
Greaves (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 714
Defense: (2232-2481) to (2519-2799)
2% Chance to cast level 35 Knife Throw on Striking
+1 to All Skills
25% Attack Speed
(0 to 40)% Movement Speed
Adds 10-20 damage
+(170 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+(15 to 25) to all Attributes
Physical Resist 5%
10% Chance of Uninterruptable Attack
Requirements +20%
Socketed (4)

. Both very good and expensive :) Good crafted boots can be very nice too. I crafted the perfect ones i think but the uniques were better.
Blind Anger
Blind Anger
Light Gauntlets (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 544
Defense: (1179-1447) to (1342-1647)
8% Chance to cast level 13 Crucify on Melee Attack
+(0 to 1) to All Skills
(1 to 5)% Chance of Crushing Blow
Blinds Attacker +3
+(120 to 170)% Enhanced Defense
(11 to 15)% to All Attributes
Socketed (4)

>
Hammerfist
Hammerfist
Heavy Gloves (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 484
Defense: (1082-1279) to (1148-1357)
Adds (1 to 20)-(21 to 40) damage
5% Life stolen per Hit
5% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(15 to 25) to Spiral Dance
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(50 to 100)%
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Defense
Elemental Resists +15%
Socketed (4)

i think, because skills is worth more now, and 15% all attributes is huge.
For rings you have all the options..
Amulet: banish or doom proc, lightning area, stats , skills. the more the better.

Consider, thjat you get + dmg from dex from Famine! So +%attriobutes is worth a lot!

For skills:
In the other melee necro guide they considered putting points in resurgence, which givbes +8% def to death ward. which is more than the +4% from a point in death ward. I dont think its worth putting 5 points in the summon tree, but if you want to go the bane route you could do that.

Also i currently have 1 point in Dragonfire oil, which gives around 100 dmg and +16%Def. I dont know if thats better than 3%DS.

Discuss! :)
thysick
Thunder Beetle
57 | 0
kolyeah8 wrote:So, why is nobody considering
Tzeentch
Tzeentch
Necromancer Scythes

'Shaad'
Runeword Level: 100
5% Chance to cast level 27 Singularity on Kill
20% Chance to cast level 40 Punisher on Striking
+(146 to 174)% Enhanced Damage
Adds 63-125 damage
(31 to 50)% Bonus to Buff/Debuff/Cold Skill Duration
(17 to 21)% Mana stolen per Hit
Hit Causes Monster to Flee 5%
?
I used it in endgame last season.. the punisher dmg is insane, and since youre hitting 30 times per attack in crowds or at least 3 times per carnage you get a bazillion punisher all over the place. i didnt even use any +psn dmg / -psn res items and the punishers 1shot everything in duncraig for excample.

As for other items i used
Idol of Rygnar
Idol of Rygnar
Mask (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 540
Defense: (2068-2350) to (2208-2510)
+2 to Necromancer Skill Levels
(25 to 30)% Life stolen per Hit
Enhanced Weapon Damage +200%
Hit Causes Monster to Flee 1%
+(120 to 150)% Enhanced Defense
+(40 to 50) to Strength
+(40 to 50) to Dexterity
Target Takes Additional Damage of 500
25% Gold Find
+5 to Light Radius
Socketed (4)

after
Witchhunter's Hood
Witchhunter's Hood
Witchhunter's Attire Set
Cap (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 228
Defense: (2136-2611) to (2161-2642)
(16 to 20)% to Strength
+(80 to 120)% Enhanced Defense
(16 to 20)% to Dexterity
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
Elemental Resists +(31 to 40)%
Physical Resist 5%
Total Character Defense (16 to 20)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (4)

Black Void
Black Void
Heavy Belt (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 568
Defense: (3060-3442) to (3304-3717)
20% Attack Speed
Adds 10-15 damage
(10 to 15)% Life stolen per Hit
Slow Target 10%
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Defense
10% to Strength
10% to Dexterity
Target Takes Additional Damage of (25 to 50)
30% Magic Find
Socketed (2)

, dunno for midgame..
Candlewake
Candlewake
Splint Mail (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 563
Defense: (9032-11839) to (10077-13093)
-2% Base Block Chance
Additional Strength Damage Bonus: (32/256 Per Strength)%
(5 to 10)% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(150 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
(15 to 25)% to Strength
+(2500 to 4000) Defense
Cannot Be Frozen (50% Chance to appear on Item)
Total Character Defense (50 to 100)%
Socketed (6)

was superior in def and dmg to
Strength Beyond Strength
Strength Beyond Strength
Gothic Plate (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 614
Defense: (7580-8361) to (9196-10143)
1% Chance to cast level 36 Pyroblast on Striking
Adds 25-38 damage
-10% Target Defense
150% Bonus to Attack Rating
+150% Damage to Demons
25% Life stolen per Hit
10% Deadly Strike
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
1% Reanimate as: Inarius
-5 to Light Radius
Socketed (6)

! Erewan for midgame
Akarat's Trek
Akarat's Trek
Light Plated Boots (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 561
Defense: (1960-2352) to (2170-2604)
2% Chance to cast level 30 Thunder Hammer Nova on Melee Attack
2% Chance to cast level 30 Thunder Wave on Melee Attack
2% Chance to cast level 30 Hammertime on Melee Attack
(0 to 40)% Movement Speed
+(15 to 20) to Charged Strike
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(100 to 150)%
+(150 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
10% to All Attributes
+10 to Light Radius
Socketed (4)

or
Knight's Grace
Knight's Grace
Greaves (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 714
Defense: (2232-2481) to (2519-2799)
2% Chance to cast level 35 Knife Throw on Striking
+1 to All Skills
25% Attack Speed
(0 to 40)% Movement Speed
Adds 10-20 damage
+(170 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+(15 to 25) to all Attributes
Physical Resist 5%
10% Chance of Uninterruptable Attack
Requirements +20%
Socketed (4)

. Both very good and expensive :) Good crafted boots can be very nice too. I crafted the perfect ones i think but the uniques were better.
Blind Anger
Blind Anger
Light Gauntlets (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 544
Defense: (1179-1447) to (1342-1647)
8% Chance to cast level 13 Crucify on Melee Attack
+(0 to 1) to All Skills
(1 to 5)% Chance of Crushing Blow
Blinds Attacker +3
+(120 to 170)% Enhanced Defense
(11 to 15)% to All Attributes
Socketed (4)

>
Hammerfist
Hammerfist
Heavy Gloves (Sacred)

Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 484
Defense: (1082-1279) to (1148-1357)
Adds (1 to 20)-(21 to 40) damage
5% Life stolen per Hit
5% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(15 to 25) to Spiral Dance
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(50 to 100)%
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Defense
Elemental Resists +15%
Socketed (4)

i think, because skills is worth more now, and 15% all attributes is huge.
For rings you have all the options..
Amulet: banish or doom proc, lightning area, stats , skills. the more the better.

Consider, thjat you get + dmg from dex from Famine! So +%attriobutes is worth a lot!

For skills:
In the other melee necro guide they considered putting points in resurgence, which givbes +8% def to death ward. which is more than the +4% from a point in death ward. I dont think its worth putting 5 points in the summon tree, but if you want to go the bane route you could do that.

Also i currently have 1 point in Dragonfire oil, which gives around 100 dmg and +16%Def. I dont know if thats better than 3%DS.

Discuss! :)



What kind of jewel you put in that weapon?