Melee Sorceress [1.3]

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snowman41
Cultist
24 | 1
Solfege wrote:
It wasn't so much that IEs get 1-shot end-game, it was that Melee Sorc was strong enough by that point that she didn't need summons anymore. Right now, I'll say Lightning/Cold is probably still the better end-game spec, but getting there will be harder.

The IE nerf affects a lot more than just Sorc tankiness. Part of the reason Frost Armor was so great was that it allowed for tanky summons without having to waste tons of hard points on them. This meant you could focus on building your Sorc instead of boosting summons. It also allowed for a wider variety of mercs, making Rogue Priestess one of the best mercs for a Sorc because of how well IE aura+Vindicate synergized with one another (a properly-built Priestess could do D-Fauzt with only Sorc summons to tank). Without Frost Armor, it throws the viability of that into question.

Vengeful Power:
As Hecht said, it's not much of a buff. You're losing 150% TCD aura, getting weaker+more expensive Blade Spirits, a weaker merc, and fewer meatshields overall. And all you're gaining is an extra 5% DR.


I 100% agree that the other buffs dont make up for the Cold nerf, I guess my question is more of how the other elemental tree's defensive passives compared with the nerfed version of the Cold tree. I dont have a great understanding of how valuable Maximum health vs Defense vs damage resistence actually is. edit: though I agree the Living flame regen is definitely pointless when sorc has Symbol of Esu

Without the TCD aura, putting points into Ice elementals will still buff your Blade Spirits, and you also get the minion damage aura. But if you now need to invest more into boosting summons, that kinda sucks.
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Solfege
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Well, they're certainly more equal than they used to be...

Iirc, the thing with Max Life is that it's only affected by base VIT. Flat Life mods from gear or whatever aren't a factor in the calculation. Since Sorcs have pitiful Life pools to begin with, and they gain almost nothing from VIT, using Max Life mods as a primary defense isn't the best idea. This makes focusing on not getting hit or mitigating damage more important. This is what made Lightning/Cold so good. It made up for a Sorcs weak Life by offering multiple layers of defense. That didn't mean other specs weren't viable, it just made Lightning/Cold outshine them all to such a degree that it was almost pointless to use anything else.

I don't have a problem with the devs making other specs competitive with Lightning/Cold. In fact, I'm sick to death of Lightning/Cold being the dominant Sorc spec across the board. The problem I have is with how they did it. Instead of boosting or reworking other Trees to make them more competitive, they killed IEs to make the Cold Tree less competitive. They tried to equalize the specs by bringing the whole class down with an "equality of outcome" approach instead of raising the whole class with an "equality of opportunity" approach.

And yeah, the new Frost Armor aura (or whatever it's called now) will still boost your summons, but all the damage in the world won't mean a thing if they can't survive long enough to hit anything.

Tbh, I had no intention of playing this patch even before the patch notes dropped, but now I think I might actually give it a shot just to see first-hand what their meddling has wrought. I'm hoping against hope that I'll be pleasantly surprised and all my doubts will be for nothing. But I'm not expecting it.
mikkooo
Imp
5 | 1
Indeed Fire Tree is still useless. Living flame cannot beat snow queen, vengeful power or warp armor skill. Level 50 living flame add about 430 life regeneration per second. The living flame can be compared with eagle stance or tainted blood, 100 % life regeneration per 8 - 12 second versus 20 - 23 sec (10 000 / 430 = 23 s).

IE nerf was a joke, sorc is losing 150% TCD aura and 15% dr was too much :twisted:
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Solfege
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Yep.

The crueler joke is the new "Frost Essence" aura that took it's place. More Cold res? Really? Was not having enough Cold res a major problem for Sorcs? The removal of Frost Armor comes across as spiteful, and Frost Essence seems like an insultingly superficial attempt to cover that up.

But what's done is done. And let's be real, Frost Armor isn't coming back.

I've droned on long enough about this change, and my feelings about it are clear. I have some thoughts on how to fix it, and I'll post them in the Bugs&Feedback Thread later. They'll be ignored, but I'd be remiss if I didn't at least try.
Tedddy
Sasquatch
65 | -1
im having success with fire/cold sorc this patch, theorycrafting doesnt always translate
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Solfege
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Melee or Caster? The first version of this guide was a Fire/Cold build. And iirc, Fire/Cold used to be a fairly popular Caster build. I've been thinking of streaming either a Fire/Cold, Fire/Poison, or Fire/Lightning Caster, so I'm just curious.

And yeah, I agree, theorycrafting builds is one thing; actually putting them into practice is quite another. But then, there's already a thread on this forum dedicated to proving that point. ^^
Ayrill
Dark Huntress
13 | 0
Hello :) thanks for the nice guide :)

i'm pretty new and leveling up my sorc (just level 20 right now :P).

Want to ask, there is a lot hate about the sorc nerfs, did you try out how melee sorc is right now? Are there some changes how you spend the skillpoints right now? :)

are you going to update the guide with the newest changes? I just want to be sure to build the right way.. :D

Thank you anyway! :)
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Solfege
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Nah man, no hate. I was just saltly and needed to vent. I'm good now though. :)

Yes, I have been testing Melee Sorc. These are the only changes I recommend so far:
> Put a few more points into Blade Spirits early on for tankier distractions if you feel you need them.
> Use an Abjurer merc instead of a Rogue Priestess if you feel you need a merc.
Nothing about the IE nerf affects this build by end-game since you don't use any summons by then anyway, and there were even some buffs that made this build better than it already was (Fusillade and Force Blast).

At first, I didn't intend to update my guides, but I think I will anyway. It won't be for a while though. I don't have a lot of free time right now and I actually like to test a build from start to finish before publishing any changes to the guide itself.
Tedddy
Sasquatch
65 | -1
Solfege wrote:Melee or Caster? The first version of this guide was a Fire/Cold build. And iirc, Fire/Cold used to be a fairly popular Caster build. I've been thinking of streaming either a Fire/Cold, Fire/Poison, or Fire/Lightning Caster, so I'm just curious.

And yeah, I agree, theorycrafting builds is one thing; actually putting them into practice is quite another. But then, there's already a thread on this forum dedicated to proving that point. ^^


Caster, the biggest issue is getting defense up. The dmg output is massive with flamestrike
Engersion
Imp
5 | 0
Do you think Lightning + Poison would be better suited at least until you get some decent gear?

With the removal of Frost Armor I don't really see much of a point in investing in the Cold Tree outside of Snow Queen, especially when Ice Elementals just straight up die in most cases. The extra defense and Maximum life don't seem comparable to the passive mitigation and active mitigation offered by Poison tree in terms Vengeful Power and Miasma. The downside is there is more micro involved with managing Miasma.

Once you have access to decent gear then Vengeful Power loses its attractiveness. At that point Snow Queen becomes a much better option. Although I'm wondering if Miasma alone is worth investing in the Poison Tree at least until the final bosses where you'll have dedicated gear anyway.