Melee Necromancer

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ASaluteTo
Dark Huntress
14 | 1
Ever_A_Noob wrote:


Is there a reason you aren't using Dragonfire Oil? Pre-2017 I put a bunch of points in that and less into Talon's Hold and the leech one. I presume all the WDM missiles carry that extra fire damage, no?


Not enough additional dmg for the point investment.

With like 25 point investment it's around 550 avg fire dmg (with +14 skills, so 25 hard pts and 39 total), 357 but that damage is subject to the 35 (for normal mobs) to 50% (for bosses) dmg reduction, compared to 0 to 35% for phys, so it's actually 357.5 for 25 pts on normal mobs, or 275 on bosses. Famine gives 10% EWD and 1% LL per point, which for me is about 34 avg. phys dmg per point (excluding buffs from burning veil, which effects both equally) which means a return of (34*25 pts) 850 damage, for a ratio of 14.3:34 for normal mobs, or 11:22.1 for bosses.
None of this is even including that it's actually 27 pts to get 25 pts into dragonfire oil, because of the pre-reqs, or that famine pts also give 1% LL and not just straight dmg.

The phys numbers also scale faster and harder, since the better your weapon the better the modifier. Basically, once you've got a decent crafted weapon or SU/great runeword necro scythe, dragonfire oil is just nowhere near worth the investment.

Note: Because hard pts in dragonfire scale it by 20% per pt, there could be some later point where it is better for pure dps than famine, but I don't have the respec pots atm to do those calculations.

For Deathlord calculations, think it's simply (str + dex) * modifier, where modifier is variable depending on Deathlord's skill lvl (note that this changes dynamically, meaning if you cast it at level 39 for (str + dex) * 42 (4200%) defense, then swap to a different setup where you have 40 skill levels, it'll update to (str + dex) * 43 defense. So the benefit for having a weapon swap just to cast Deathlord in is just in the extra 10 str/dex per level bonus. Not sure exactly how TCD and Bonus Defense modifiers (from Death Ward) play with this number, but I suspect there's a smoothing function where after you get past a certain point, each additional point is harder to get.

Dunno, though.

Talon's Hold only slows attack speed/cast rate, not movement. The reason I put points into it (and I've got 25 invested atm for 49.5% slow) is the summons and slow are insanely good for survivability, since with enough Parasite pts you hit everything on the screen, so it's effectively a 49% damage reduction (even better, it helps smooth damage -- assuming we don't get 1 shot by something -- letting our sustain and other avoidance stats keep us alive even better).

Basically, my melee necro is a juggernaut. It puts out very nice damage on a lot of targets (shit dmg vs. st, though, as parasite only hits each individual target once, and carnage just seems to do utter shit damage even though it's 5 hits per swing -- maybe with a lot of fire pierce it'd be more effective. Dunno.) and is very, very tanky. All of my skill choices play into that.
ASaluteTo
Dark Huntress
14 | 1
And just a quick update, my melee nec can currently effortlessly (here defined as hold down right click + alt and do nothing but pick up loot, maybe cast burning veil if you wanna go faster, no pots) clear TA (kill everything except bosses--killing them adds like 1-2mins, depending on if your merc is alive) in 10 mins. It can do Fautz (successfully cleared twice today, but took like 30-40 mins for each clear, so not setting any records) and does very well in Duncraig (I zone out and die to barrels more than I should, but mobs can't kill you if you drink pots).

So, if you like just chilling out with some music and farming the sh*t out of places, this build is pretty nice. If you wanna do top-tier heroic bosses and get the best charms in the game, though, think there are far better builds for that.
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Ever_A_Noob
Pit Knight
113 | 1
ASaluteTo wrote:And just a quick update


Thanks for the Dragonfire Oil info. If I'm getting a crucify proc, don't all those crucify missiles carry the DO damage too? It seems worthwhile if you have enough WDM missiles (other than parasite) flying around the screen. I remember equipping a
Black Razor
Black Razor
Kriss (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (95-105) to (97-108)
Required Dexterity: 454
Required Level: 100
Current Dexterity Damage Bonus: (51/256 per Dexterity)%
4% Chance to cast level 13 Claw Tornado on Striking
+(2 to 3) to Druid Skill Levels
+(2 to 3) to Necromancer Skill Levels
+(144 to 171)% Enhanced damage
Adds 84-167 fire damage
Adds 84-167 lightning damage
Adds 84-167 cold damage
-(8 to 11)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-(8 to 11)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
-(8 to 11)% to Enemy Cold Resistance
(21 to 30)% Chance of Uninterruptable Attack
+(21 to 25) Life after each Kill
Socketed (3)

and
Mountain King
Mountain King
Tower Shield (Sacred)

Defense: (5695-6230) to (6756-7400)
Chance to Block: class%
Required Strength: 514
Required Dexterity: 589
Required Level: 100
2% Chance to cast level 8 Bear Claw on Striking
+(1 to 2) to All Skills
Adds 7-19 damage
(50 to 100)% Bonus to Attack Rating
(21 to 25)% Life stolen per Hit
8% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+500 Defense
Increase Maximum Durability 25%
Socketed (4)

and felt like the DO boost made a big difference since I had tornadoes, time strikes, etc. all over the screen.

My last melee necro was great (my best Vizjun runner), but that was pre-2017, and I had Xis + godly SP gear for him - hard to compare to a poor ladder character.
ASaluteTo
Dark Huntress
14 | 1
Ever_A_Noob wrote:
ASaluteTo wrote:And just a quick update


Thanks for the Dragonfire Oil info. If I'm getting a crucify proc, don't all those crucify missiles carry the DO damage too? It seems worthwhile if you have enough WDM missiles (other than parasite) flying around the screen. I remember equipping a
Black Razor
Black Razor
Kriss (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (95-105) to (97-108)
Required Dexterity: 454
Required Level: 100
Current Dexterity Damage Bonus: (51/256 per Dexterity)%
4% Chance to cast level 13 Claw Tornado on Striking
+(2 to 3) to Druid Skill Levels
+(2 to 3) to Necromancer Skill Levels
+(144 to 171)% Enhanced damage
Adds 84-167 fire damage
Adds 84-167 lightning damage
Adds 84-167 cold damage
-(8 to 11)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-(8 to 11)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
-(8 to 11)% to Enemy Cold Resistance
(21 to 30)% Chance of Uninterruptable Attack
+(21 to 25) Life after each Kill
Socketed (3)

and
Mountain King
Mountain King
Tower Shield (Sacred)

Defense: (5695-6230) to (6756-7400)
Chance to Block: class%
Required Strength: 514
Required Dexterity: 589
Required Level: 100
2% Chance to cast level 8 Bear Claw on Striking
+(1 to 2) to All Skills
Adds 7-19 damage
(50 to 100)% Bonus to Attack Rating
(21 to 25)% Life stolen per Hit
8% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+500 Defense
Increase Maximum Durability 25%
Socketed (4)

and felt like the DO boost made a big difference since I had tornadoes, time strikes, etc. all over the screen.

My last melee necro was great (my best Vizjun runner), but that was pre-2017, and I had Xis + godly SP gear for him - hard to compare to a poor ladder character.


My understanding is all WDM abilites take a % of your white sheet dmg (that is, if you open your character sheet and set basic attack is your left click, that number), multiply it by their modifier (so Carnage that's 50%), and that's the damage the ability will do before mob resistances/dr. Abilites with conversions (like Parasite and Carnage) will further take a portion of that previous number and convert it to other damage types.

To explain that more concisely: Assume necro with 1000 sheet damage. 600 of that is phys, 400 is fire. He's using Parasite and attacking a single target once. 1000 * .6 (parasite's WDM modifier) is 600 (360 phys, 240 fire). That phys dmg is, additionally, made 50% magical, so the final dmg on target is 600 (180 phys, 180 magic, 240 fire). However, that's assuming 0 resistances for everything -- in Destu, every mob will have 35% fire res, and 0 phys/magic (or 15-35 phys/magic, and 50-70 fire res for bosses). That means the actual damage out is 516 (180 phys, 180 magic, 156 fire).

So, basically, if you have no -fire res gear, phys dmg will be better than fire dmg at a ratio of 1:.65 for normal mobs.

The second point is that DO is flat damage and points in Famine is 10% phys dmg increase-- so with lower levels of total physical damage, DO will win out. The TL:DR is if you're going Procmancer and relying on non-phys dmg, especially fire, DO is almost certainly worth it. If you're stacking phys dmg and have a DECENT TO GOOD endgame weapon (like 230+ avg dmg scythe) then Famine points are going to give more damage.
So for your example, you'd want to max DO and probably leave Famine almost untouched and just rely on life on striking to keep your sustain up.
Hinado
Destroyer
7 | 0
@ASaluteTo: Just reread one of your previous posts and now I'm wondering about this:

ASaluteTo wrote:Use Nih rune to craft all of your jewels -- max roll (2%) of life steal breaks even on 0 phys res mobs with max Nih roll (8) at 6000 phys dmg. Given parasite converts white sheet dmg to 60% phys, that means 10,000 sheet average physical damage.


Doesn't life steal apply to all of parasites bounces while Nihs' "on striking in melee" only applies to the initial melee attack? E.g. if parasite hits 10 targets it would require 6000/10 = 600 physical damage to break even?

Since half of parasite damage gets converted to magical this would be 1200. Further because parasite only deals 60% weapon damage this would be 2000. For 15 hits this would be 1333 what should be achievable without to much trouble.

Am I missing something here?
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dickhead
Azure Drake
167 | 0
The guide is all outdated whirlpool isn't even in this version isn't it?
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L H
Zhar the Mad
5693 | 198
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dickhead wrote:The guide is all outdated whirlpool isn't even in this version isn't it?


It's not "all" outdated. You just need to read and apply the patch notes with what was changed in this build. Whirlpool should still exist on crafted boots.
Kumbo
Fallen
1 | 0
Anyone messed around with the Carnage skill for bosses? Does each pulse have a chance to proc crushing blow?
Fendraz
Fallen
1 | 0
Anyone know how good compass of souls is ? im currently using misery RW .. and just got my hand on compass .. and was wondering if the whirlpool skill on it was worth uptier to 5-6 or am i losing damage over misery RW ?
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Jaxon
Grubber
329 | 10
dickhead wrote:The guide is all outdated whirlpool isn't even in this version isn't it?


whirlpool rolls on boots. crafted some yesterday and saw it a few times