Poison Whirlwind Barb; A Comprehensive Guide (with 135 uber gear)

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ashvin_
Destroyer
6 | 0
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You only need the elemental weapon to apply the buff and use the elemental skills, but you can apply the buff on switch and then swap to your ww weapons, only you wont be doing any phys dmg, which really doesn't matter if you 1 hit everything.
I didn't bother to farm TU gear when I was leveling because I was strong enough to get to lvl 90 with only Koth's Lesson maces x 2 and honorific gloves belt boots.
jacobson
Skeleton
2 | 1

Viper Mandate



During mid-game, before you get a
Blacktongue
Blacktongue
Flamberge (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (101 - 119) to (110 - 130)
Two-Hand Damage: (165 - 195) to (169 - 200)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength:
300
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 44 Rotting Flesh on Melee Attack
+25% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Damage
+(40 to 60)% to Poison Spell Damage
-(20 to 35)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(14 to 20) to Amatoxin
Slow Target 15%
Maximum Poison Resist +(1 to 2)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (6)
or
Demhe

Demhe
Maces, Scepters
Except Hammers

'ZodLew'
Runeword Level: 110
25% Chance to cast level 35 Infected Roots on Melee Attack
+(126 to 250) to Maximum Damage
Stun Attack
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Damage
+(39 to 45)% to Cold Spell Damage
-(39 to 45)% to Enemy Cold Resistance
+(39 to 45)% to Poison Spell Damage
-(39 to 45)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
20% to Vitality
+(51 to 125) Mana on Striking
+15 Life after each Kill
, you might obtain a
Viper Mandate
Viper Mandate
Maul (Sacred)

Two-Hand Damage: 74 to 82
(Barbarian Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 630
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
-3% Enemy Poison Resist per Snake Stance Base Level
20% Chance to cast level 30 Death Star on Melee Attack
30% Attack Speed
(50 to 200)% Bonus to Attack Rating
+50% Damage to Undead
+(8 to 12) to Snake Stance (Barbarian Only)
25% to Vitality
Maximum Poison Resist +(1 to 3)%
Poison Length Reduced by 50%
Socketed (6)
and ask youself: is it an upgrade over
Death Pit Stake
Death Pit Stake
Pike (4)

Two-Hand Damage: (11 - 14) to (26 - 38)
Required Level: 10
Required Strength:
45 to 48
Required Dexterity: 68 to 71
Item Level: 19
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
14% Chance to cast level 4 Arachnomancy on Melee Attack
15% Attack Speed
Adds (2 to 4)-(6 to 15) Damage
+(35 to 57)% Enhanced Damage
+(11 to 15)% to Poison Spell Damage
+(3 to 6) to Divine Judgment (Paladin Only)
Poison Length Reduced by 30%
Requirements -(11 to 15)%
Socketed (2)
Two-Hand Damage: (31 - 43) to (78 - 94)
Required Level: 29
Required Strength:
63 to 67
Required Dexterity: 88 to 93
Item Level: 36
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
16% Chance to cast level 17 Arachnomancy on Melee Attack
25% Attack Speed
Adds (6 to 15)-(21 to 30) Damage
+(81 to 103)% Enhanced Damage
+(16 to 20)% to Poison Spell Damage
+(7 to 10) to Divine Judgment (Paladin Only)
Poison Length Reduced by 45%
Requirements -(21 to 25)%
Socketed (4)
Two-Hand Damage: (72 - 87) to (171 - 199)
Required Level: 47
Required Strength:
111 to 118
Required Dexterity: 150 to 160
Item Level: 59
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
18% Chance to cast level 30 Arachnomancy on Melee Attack
35% Attack Speed
Adds (16 to 25)-(36 to 50) Damage
+(126 to 149)% Enhanced Damage
+(21 to 25)% to Poison Spell Damage
+(11 to 14) to Divine Judgment (Paladin Only)
Poison Length Reduced by 60%
Requirements -(31 to 35)%
Socketed (5)
Two-Hand Damage: (83 - 96) to (265 - 292)
Required Level: 55
Required Strength:
205 to 218
Required Dexterity: 274 to 293
Item Level: 85
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.15 per Dexterity)%
20% Chance to cast level 44 Arachnomancy on Melee Attack
40% Attack Speed
Adds (31 to 40)-(61 to 70) Damage
+(149 to 171)% Enhanced Damage
+(26 to 30)% to Poison Spell Damage
+(15 to 18) to Divine Judgment (Paladin Only)
Poison Length Reduced by 75%
Requirements -(36 to 40)%
Socketed (6)
?
Let's see what is better at what aspect:
- Dmg increase: DPS
- Pierce: VM
- Attack speed modifier (crucial for a lower WW IAS breakpoint, details here): DPS
- IAS: DPS
- Melee range: DPS
- Stat requirements: DPS
- Vitality: VM
- AR: VM
- Max res: VM
- Required level: VM
- MO space: DPS

For crowd farming we prefer a wider melee range, and since the monsters are not very tough health-wise and resistance-wise, we don't need pierce that much. We also don't need defensive bonuses that much, so for that case DPS is clearly better.

For killing tough targets like bosses and elite monsters, pierce is more effective than dmg increase. There are way less targets to handle at the same time, so we can sacrifice a wide melee range for something more useful. And since these enemies usually hit much harder, we need sustain - i.e. defensive bonuses and AR to land hits more frequently and heal more from attacks. VM looks like a clear winner here, but there are a few downsides compared to DPS.

First, attack speed modifier is worse and innate IAS is lower which means we need to put more IAS into the weapon to reach 4 FPA breakpoint (54 for VM vs 35 for DPS). Good news here is a higher required level, which allows us to use Gul runes without losing precious MO space. We can reach 4 FPA with 4 Gul, 3 Gul + 2 MO or 2 Gul + 4 MO. Bad news about DPS here is that we can only reach 30 IAS out of 35 needed with MOs, so we have to use Gul rune or a jewel. The first option means losing 10 MO space, while the second means a lower Runemaster bonus. But anyways VM get less spare sockets to use. Of course, if you can survive just fine without 4 FPA, you don't need to dig into these details, but even then DPS gets a better result with less effort - 6 FPA with just MOs.

Second, higher required level leaves us less MO space to use, the bare minimum of 150 life on attack already gets us to lvl 120. We can somewhat compensate that with the ability to use higher level runes like Poison or Xith, but we already have a lot of pierce and if we can farm a lot of Xith runes, we are able to get Demhe.

Third, high str requirement of VM means there are more work to do. There are a lot of ways to handle that - you can insert -req jewels into the weapon, use Ko runes in other gear, spend some stat points, put more str MOs into honorifics and TUs, or focus on getting charms with str. But DPS requirements are easier to deal with anyway.

IMO, for bossing all of these downsides are small compared to the benefits that VM provides. Of course, if you managed to get high pierce through other ways (Astrogha set), the main feature of VM is lost and DPS is better.

TL;DR: for crowd farming - DPS, for bosses and tough elites: if low pierce - VM, otherwise DPS.
BearBearderBarb
Azure Drake
165 | 18
Death Pit Stake isn't even needed, you can dw The Dao of Xiansai + The Shanker for the same range against trash and and extra pierce against bosses. VM is really only needed if you didn't get Blacktongue but need to boss.
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GeorgeMelons
Skeleton
2 | 0
Something I've noticed with this build (currently level 142) is that the Rotting Flesh procs on
Blacktongue
Blacktongue
Flamberge (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (101 - 119) to (110 - 130)
Two-Hand Damage: (165 - 195) to (169 - 200)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength:
300
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 44 Rotting Flesh on Melee Attack
+25% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Damage
+(40 to 60)% to Poison Spell Damage
-(20 to 35)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(14 to 20) to Amatoxin
Slow Target 15%
Maximum Poison Resist +(1 to 2)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (6)
seem to cause a significant DPS loss. I noticed this when farming Scosglen, spinning through mob packs as usual, and the poison novas bursting out from Rotting Flesh would hit Etherborns casting at me from a distance. By the time this poison wore off, they had lost maybe 25% of their health. If I whirlwind up to an Etherborn and hit them without Rotting Flesh going off, that poison does about 75% damage, roughly a 3x increase. I made sure I only have one source of added poison damage on my gear as well, so it's not that.

Blacktongues are good weapons for this build though, so now I am wondering what would be some solid replacement weapons so you don't have a weapon proc that is lowering your poison DPS. According to the wiki here https://wiki.median-xl.com/Angelic_Items Angelic scepters can roll up to +6 skills, but those are not 2h so your whirlwind has less radius. Angelic giant swords cannot roll +skills at all, or caster stats like PSD or poison -res. Angelic spears can roll +skills but no caster stats, so scepters look like the only weapon type that can get everything this build wants for angelic options. Losing Blacktongue also means losing all those +Amatoxin points, and I'm not sure how significantly those factor into overall DPS.

Thoughts? I'm relatively new to MXL so I'm not fully aware of all the different weapon options out there, there's gotta be something that can fix the Blacktongue proc problem, hopefully without also being incredibly rare drops/crafts.
mortimer_85
Djinn
522 | 230
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GeorgeMelons wrote:... Angelic giant swords cannot roll +skills at all, or caster stats like PSD or poison -res. ...


While that is true you can add affixes with the soulforge and you can bless it with a shimmering shrine.
If you find an Angelic Giant sword with one open suffix and one open prefix you can add 25 poison pierce (suffix) and 55-65 poison sd (prefix).
Add another 8-10 pierce + 9-15 poison sd from an intensity oil shimmering bless and you already have more than max sd and more than average pierce from
Blacktongue
Blacktongue
Flamberge (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (101 - 119) to (110 - 130)
Two-Hand Damage: (165 - 195) to (169 - 200)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength:
300
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 44 Rotting Flesh on Melee Attack
+25% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Damage
+(40 to 60)% to Poison Spell Damage
-(20 to 35)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(14 to 20) to Amatoxin
Slow Target 15%
Maximum Poison Resist +(1 to 2)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (6)
. The loss from Amatoxin is minor. while you loose 2 Jewel/rune slots on each weapon you gain 32 more levels of MO space or space for additional blessings via
Breath of Thaumaturgy
Breath of Thaumaturgy
Occult Effigy

Cube Reagent
Cube with a Blessed Crafted/Rare Weapon/Armor to Add Bonus
Item can be blessed Again
+25 Required Level
.

[Edit]I don't know why I was suggesting farming an Angelic Giant Sword when the Soulforge also works on Sacred rares. So simply look for a sacred rare Flamberge - might even prep it even more specific for forging with rare downlevel recipe (cube it with one rare ring and amulet until open affixes fits your needs) [Edit]

Also: skill levels only matter for Amatoxin scaling in combat - The added poison damage from Snake Stance is determined by the slvl while casting the stance.

After less than an hour of Heroic High Heavens I got this:
Image
The other open prefix will be most likely Attack speed. The on Kill proc is an all party insta heal spell - so not to bad.
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GeorgeMelons
Skeleton
2 | 0
Looks like I'll have to get a couple of good sacred rare flamberges/greatswords then, thanks for the heads up. Shame this wouldn't even be an issue if the game would let stronger poisons overwrite weaker ones.