Marco wrote:How about you point out exactly the builds and their flaws, rather than just saying "there are bad builds = the game isnt balanced". It seems like a pretty useless conclusion to make when there's always going to be a best and a worst build, depending on multiple factors, which fluctuate over time. A good way to judge balance is to measure the contrast between "the very best" and "the very worst". And in this regard sigma is quite ahead of ultimative or 2012, it would be probably difficult to make a consensus on what current worst builds are, but if we go back I can definitely remember many unusable builds and even classes (druid + paladin, looking at you) so not sure how exactly older MXL was even slightly more balanced than now.
I think this topic tells quite a lot about balance, even if it's "only" a subjective view of some of the best players.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=45921Anything in T1.5 and T2 could use a minor buff. I saw you stream nagisin, so I guess you understand already what this build would need. But nevermind that. All the builds listed there are already pretty much inside the meta in my unpopular opinion. Other builds struggle a lot more compared to that, like for example Hammertime barbarian, where I already explained in one of my first posts on the forum what the issue with that build is, and you guys reacted by removing the "melee only" debuff on Bear stance (at least I think you did it because of this feedback, but I'm honestly not sure). I'll be honest and say I haven't tried that build since. But already back then I struggled a lot even with the 110 ubers, whereas many 115 ubers were almost impossible. But you might as well
re-read my feedback regarding that skill. It mainly comes down to 2 things. 1) you need to many stats on your weapon to make it work 2) there is no endgame weapon. And not much has changed since I posted that feedback regarding those 2 issues.
But it seems oskills are not the primary focus, which I can understand. I'd just love to have some bigger build variety.
Marco wrote:If you want to compare MXL to other games that's perfectly fine. Let's use the "how many chars can clear all content" technique and see what game we can learn from. Diablo 3 comes to mind. So the fact that the average person can clear 95% content in D3 with any build makes it the pinnacle of arpg balance? Or is the game just extremely easy meant for 3-button console play, and doesnt have any content to begin with?
Actually it doesn't make much sense to talk about "how many chars can clear all content" when it's not about the characters themselves, but much rather the build of the characters. And even in D3 there are usually 1-2 builds per season per character that absolutely excell at either solo farming or team farming. However with how many possible builds there are, with all the skill and rune combinations, it's kind of silly to even compare it. Because it's the other way round. Only around 5 % of the builds actually can keep up, if at all, which is why people really only play predetermined builds (predetermined by sets) instead of trying things out on their own. And that of course can't possibly be the pinnacle of arpg balance.
Though I doubt it's news to anyone here that Diablo 3 is a really really bad example
Marco wrote:Last thing, you mentioned how "inefficient" and "unrewarding" it is to build non-meta. When you play meta builds you lose a lot of momentum because there's great demand for the items you need, they're always "already sold" and you need an investment for it. When you play non-meta, you can "nihlathak" yourself some endgame gear (selling acs) in a couple hours, then it's all gain. Paradoxically, the more meta a build becomes, the less meta is becomes because the investment grows therefore reducing efficiency. Ever wondered why the best players play non-meta, even though they could afford 10x trinibeam setups if they wanted?
Personally, I think it's a lot more rewarding playing a non-meta build. Because then it actually feels like an achievement when you manage to defeat that one boss you struggled a lot with. But some bosses are outright impossible for those builds, because they are lacking too many things. Even some farming areas are. But then again, it really depends on what you'd call non-meta build. For me personally, as explained above, it's nonconventional builds that require oskills. Other people would probably say: "Trinity beam and that's it. That's the meta." And in the latter case, me saying "it's more rewarding playing a non-meta build" will just be confusing.
So yeah, I think in order for this discussion to grow in the right direction, you guys would need to define what "meta" is and what the builds inside that meta are. Only then you can start on the same level and discuss properly what needs to be done.
Either way, I really hope my suggestions from my previous post were read and is considered/thought about