making the game 3d engine way much harder, and median started as soft-mod and modifying the existing d2 stuff.
we could try to mod any existing 3d ARPG engine (instead of creating from scratch) but then, entry level game would be slightly higher because there might some current player base that used super old computer to play median.
Median XL engine
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@OP
Of course it would be amazing, but there are countless problems with it. The tl;dr is that it's just too much work, but if you really want an honest answer, here's my 500 word essay response
So realistically, if this were to happen, the best thing to do would be to use some existing video game engine like Unity or Unreal Engine, etc. Not only that, it would almost certainly have to be a 2d game with an isometric perspective with 3d models rendered in 2d, just like Diablo I and II.
2D isometric rendering means I could make really basic assets that would be rendered as low resolution images that could then be edited and imported as sprites into the game. It means I could also make things like houses and building that only require 1 or 2 sides to be detailed. Since the player only sees 1 or 2 sides of a house for example, you'd basically just be making half an asset. Also, rigging and animating everything would be much easier because you could get away with poorly done animations at a low framerate. However, I haven't learned rigging and animating in 3d yet and these aren't particularly easy things to master. They're very complicated and people go to school for years to learn them. I have no education in any of this. I learn everything myself.
Here's an example of something I did recently:
First you make basic 3d models and texture them:
Then render in isometric view as sprites that you can then edit:
At the moment, as far as I know I'm the only dedicated artist on the team (I guess you can consider me "on the team," but I don't do much) that can create these assets and have them look decent. So literally every asset would have to be made by one person. Finding other people who are dedicated to making a game for free probably wouldn't be easy and would probably even make things worse. People working for free can very easily lose interest and stop working without consequence.
Essentially, we have a few programmers and basically 1 dedicated artist. Plus, everyone pretty much has school and/or jobs to deal with so this would be free time (1-3 hours probably every week day, if that) all for no money. We would also have to come up with completely new lore and create an entirely new, unique world with tons of characters and a quest line that we would all agree with and understand. Games need to be planned; you can't just start and expect everything to fall into place. That's why concept art is so important. Also, keep in mind I'm only talking from an art perspective. This doesn't include the amount of work that would go into programming. There would also have to be sound effects, music, maybe voice acting and cgi for cinematics. All of this would have to be outsourced, which means a ton of money spent for just that.
As for crowd funding and getting donations to support the development, while this would be helpful, ultimately it's a very bad idea. No one has made a game of this scope before. It can very, very easily fail. I really don't like the idea of people giving money to help create a game that will take years to create and then potentially not even get released in the end. It would all be for essentially nothing and everyone would feel shitty and upset.
That being said, I do think we could create some kind of game post-sigma. Of course, anything can happen. Maybe sigma will keep developing for years or maybe some new version will be created. If not, I think we could make a smaller game; one that is completely different to the Diablo style RPG. Maybe a horror or adventure game. It's just too early to even have the discussion and I have no idea if I'm alone in wanting this. Maybe no one on the team has any intention in doing anything outside of Diablo.
Of course it would be amazing, but there are countless problems with it. The tl;dr is that it's just too much work, but if you really want an honest answer, here's my 500 word essay response
So realistically, if this were to happen, the best thing to do would be to use some existing video game engine like Unity or Unreal Engine, etc. Not only that, it would almost certainly have to be a 2d game with an isometric perspective with 3d models rendered in 2d, just like Diablo I and II.
2D isometric rendering means I could make really basic assets that would be rendered as low resolution images that could then be edited and imported as sprites into the game. It means I could also make things like houses and building that only require 1 or 2 sides to be detailed. Since the player only sees 1 or 2 sides of a house for example, you'd basically just be making half an asset. Also, rigging and animating everything would be much easier because you could get away with poorly done animations at a low framerate. However, I haven't learned rigging and animating in 3d yet and these aren't particularly easy things to master. They're very complicated and people go to school for years to learn them. I have no education in any of this. I learn everything myself.
Here's an example of something I did recently:
First you make basic 3d models and texture them:
Then render in isometric view as sprites that you can then edit:
At the moment, as far as I know I'm the only dedicated artist on the team (I guess you can consider me "on the team," but I don't do much) that can create these assets and have them look decent. So literally every asset would have to be made by one person. Finding other people who are dedicated to making a game for free probably wouldn't be easy and would probably even make things worse. People working for free can very easily lose interest and stop working without consequence.
Essentially, we have a few programmers and basically 1 dedicated artist. Plus, everyone pretty much has school and/or jobs to deal with so this would be free time (1-3 hours probably every week day, if that) all for no money. We would also have to come up with completely new lore and create an entirely new, unique world with tons of characters and a quest line that we would all agree with and understand. Games need to be planned; you can't just start and expect everything to fall into place. That's why concept art is so important. Also, keep in mind I'm only talking from an art perspective. This doesn't include the amount of work that would go into programming. There would also have to be sound effects, music, maybe voice acting and cgi for cinematics. All of this would have to be outsourced, which means a ton of money spent for just that.
As for crowd funding and getting donations to support the development, while this would be helpful, ultimately it's a very bad idea. No one has made a game of this scope before. It can very, very easily fail. I really don't like the idea of people giving money to help create a game that will take years to create and then potentially not even get released in the end. It would all be for essentially nothing and everyone would feel shitty and upset.
That being said, I do think we could create some kind of game post-sigma. Of course, anything can happen. Maybe sigma will keep developing for years or maybe some new version will be created. If not, I think we could make a smaller game; one that is completely different to the Diablo style RPG. Maybe a horror or adventure game. It's just too early to even have the discussion and I have no idea if I'm alone in wanting this. Maybe no one on the team has any intention in doing anything outside of Diablo.
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cool work Inertia. a standalone sigma would be amazing but like marco said i think thats kind of a pipe dream without investors. Maybe one day 
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Kenshin wrote:This question bothers me everyday, why creators of Median XL just don't make new game, wouldn't be that easier to write new game with new engine similar to this one? No restrictions, fan base would follow, no copyright issues etc. I m just being curious, why keeping it on Diablo 2 engine.
Cheers, love this mod.
There are tons of games out there that i even don't want to try. Fact that i personally play sometimes D2 for 10 hours is because I like the game but this don't mean that I play games for 10 hours. Play this mod becuase its D2, not because its something new or shiny, or not because my pc is old. I just love this game and maybe devs also love it. I'm not fan of Marco, SB or the dev team I'm fan of their work over MXL, which is awesome.
genei wrote:How can I ripping all of Diablo 2 assets? C programming language is not designed to deal with games easily. Neither C++. Just rip off all D2 assets and then convert it to RPG Maker. It is based on Ruby.
This may be the worst suggestion I've seen on these forums.
shnurr214 wrote:cool work Inertia. a standalone sigma would be amazing but like marco said i think thats kind of a pipe dream without investors. Maybe one day
inb4 sigma is released and blizzard shits them selfs buys it out and releases as diablo 4
I'd like to add something from someone who manages IT projects professionally, and who has been involved in AAA development as well as indie development in the past.
A "simple" reskin of an existing engine (i.e. changing numbers, creating new interactions, increasing art assets, etc.) which is what Median XL is, would typically be managed by myself and have 2-3 devs/artists working on it. While the work is complex, if the engine is robust, you are more or less swapping assets for assets. You are not actually dealing with the underlying logic of how the game works, how it is optimised for systems, how graphic interactions should be displayed, etc. Primarily, devs in this position are functionally story tellers and artists, people who have an idea and want to translate it into visually representing it to players.
Comparatively, an engine development would generally have 6-10 project managers, 10-20 developers on the logic, another 10-20 devs on the implementation, and yet another 10-20 devs on QA. Note that a lot of people would be on all three teams, as they all wouldn't necessarily be going at the same time, but each component is significant project in its own right. They deal with lots of logic, the base interactions of the game, and a lot of what they do is purely technically and involves significant amount of complex concepts to get right. They generally aren't the story tellers, they don't care about generating content or the game looking good. What they want is to build is a framework to allow assets designed by others to interact, and as such involves a lot of low level programming to communicate with the core processes of the computer.
It's an entirely different skillset from the creative standpoint, and while there is some cross pollination between the two, engine development is vastly different from game design.
TLDR: Game designers (Such as the Median XL crew) is a vastly different skill set and works on a completely different tangent from engine development.
A "simple" reskin of an existing engine (i.e. changing numbers, creating new interactions, increasing art assets, etc.) which is what Median XL is, would typically be managed by myself and have 2-3 devs/artists working on it. While the work is complex, if the engine is robust, you are more or less swapping assets for assets. You are not actually dealing with the underlying logic of how the game works, how it is optimised for systems, how graphic interactions should be displayed, etc. Primarily, devs in this position are functionally story tellers and artists, people who have an idea and want to translate it into visually representing it to players.
Comparatively, an engine development would generally have 6-10 project managers, 10-20 developers on the logic, another 10-20 devs on the implementation, and yet another 10-20 devs on QA. Note that a lot of people would be on all three teams, as they all wouldn't necessarily be going at the same time, but each component is significant project in its own right. They deal with lots of logic, the base interactions of the game, and a lot of what they do is purely technically and involves significant amount of complex concepts to get right. They generally aren't the story tellers, they don't care about generating content or the game looking good. What they want is to build is a framework to allow assets designed by others to interact, and as such involves a lot of low level programming to communicate with the core processes of the computer.
It's an entirely different skillset from the creative standpoint, and while there is some cross pollination between the two, engine development is vastly different from game design.
TLDR: Game designers (Such as the Median XL crew) is a vastly different skill set and works on a completely different tangent from engine development.
Claessic wrote:genei wrote:How can I ripping all of Diablo 2 assets? C programming language is not designed to deal with games easily. Neither C++. Just rip off all D2 assets and then convert it to RPG Maker. It is based on Ruby.
This may be the worst suggestion I've seen on these forums.
No, maybe if you using Ruby then you will likely rid off a lot of undesirable bugs. This idea not only for Median-XL mod. This can be made to all other mod so some people made it from Blizzard Diablo 2 base.
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genei wrote:Claessic wrote:genei wrote:How can I ripping all of Diablo 2 assets? C programming language is not designed to deal with games easily. Neither C++. Just rip off all D2 assets and then convert it to RPG Maker. It is based on Ruby.
This may be the worst suggestion I've seen on these forums.
No, maybe if you using Ruby then you will likely rid off a lot of undesirable bugs. This idea not only for Median-XL mod. This can be made to all other mod so some people made it from Blizzard Diablo 2 base.
Ruby is a terrible choice in this context. If you want to go higher level you should use JAVA, C# or something similar. Most languages still use C libraries with higher level abstraction layers to bind said language(s) to the native C/C++ library.
Regardless, ripping off assets is like asking to get sued by a company that lives on crushing the dreams of its fans!