Σ 1.4.0 Patch Notes

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Primarch
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morphed wrote:
CallMeCrazySam wrote:
morphed wrote:
CallMeCrazySam wrote:
bapcja wrote:
CallMeCrazySam wrote:So your build didn't get buffed and you are salty, got it. Pretty crazy how many casters I've seen running around this patch for nobody caring about them.


I dont have "my" build and I am not "salty". "Got it" ? Next time you care to quote me, do it without unnecessary passive aggression. Have a great night.


No need to be so salty.
he is not talking about a specific build, but everything gets nerfed and shit classes gets "buffed" but they're still shit guess thats what he means


What buffed classes are still shit?
the wolf dru which has 1k ewd and sure he's a farmer but useless against bosses since his single target skill, or cold sorc how does the ice elementals help against ubers or that frigid sphere, pretty sure you could farm with sorc before the same xD , dont wanna talk about sin ,they say he gets huge buff , but all i see is some pierce and backstabb skill no one using xD, you know you have to kill endgame bosses in this game not farm areas this isnt vanilla diablo you farm endlessly..


This

I agree that no one build/setup should be able to steamroll all content and farm efficiently while doing it but each build should at least be able to clear the majority of ubers depending on how you gear them and which skills you prioritize.

There should be no builds that can ONLY farm and struggle with low to mid-range ubers, no matter how you hear them and allocate their skills.
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Marco wrote:
bapcja wrote:Most people don't go crazy about caster builds, because they are pretty much one dimensional. What do spells carry? %sdmg, %pierce and whole lot of not much else. What do wdm builds carry? Procs (we love them!), cb, ds, slow, leech and dozen different things that I wont list right now. All of which become more or less effective based on if/how many projectiles does the skill produce, if or how many times does it multi hit. Whether its single target or aoe. There's just a LOT of factors.

A lot of people play Diablo for the math, even if they dont realize it. Theres so much more number crunching involved with wdm builds compared to spell casting ones. They are simply more satysfying to play and tinker with.


Trying to sound fancy yet your argument is so shallow.

You want builds to be multi-dimensional yet you want to use a single wdm spell to do everything for you. The things which you listed for WDM are also offered in spellcasting: procs, slow, leech, also EF/SF and other mechanics which you curiously forgot to mention (considering you played the math card).

bapcja wrote:Repeated nerfs of the most popular wdm based builds paired with superficial buffs to unpopular skills might not be the way to go. If the devs want people to play outside of meta, maybe they shouldn't be afraid to generously buff builds that are picked by less than 5% of players online. The UHM rework was good example of it. Sure, it was a little overtuned but that can always be fixed later.


You do know that if you "generously buff unpopular builds" they are no longer "outside of meta" but ARE the "meta"? What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? It's like pretending you care about off-meta yet you expect us to power creep hard so you can pick the easiest fresh over-buffed meta build there currently is so you can spam 1 skill and pretend you're good at the game.

As someone who's worked nearly 10 years in the project I can tell you: MXL and power creep do NOT get along well. Simply because there's way too much content to maintain, lots of items, over 1500 skills (lod has 350). There was a years-long power creep called Ultimative which took a stupid amount of work to get back in place (dmg rework, mana rework, res, pierce, leveling, and much more). We are not making the same mistakes again.

Last point - instead of making some popular generic post "plz we need more buffz" actually point exactly what your problem is and the builds which you claim were "superficial" and I'm happy to discuss what you're doing wrong. As the 1.4 announcement said, the buffs were not going to be ridiculous because most of the main addressed builds weren't even lacking power. But I guess you did not read that, same for this topic's title, it's the changelog thread not the feedback one. Post in an appropriate place if you want to make something constructive and are not here merely for the attention.



There should be always power creep in a game but find a way to make it happend in the very endgame with huge time invested, right now there wont be a power creep at all coz endgame = small improvement limited gear, and im talking about experienced players, coz most ppl dont care about this, dont even get to high lab or to try samael... newbs dont stand a chance vs these ubers, and experience players struggle , and when you think you cant improve your character anymore whats the point to continue playing though... but you know better i guess
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Edit: Quote was fucked so I deleted it

Arguing X build should be able to do all content sounds fine in practice, but it isn't a straight numbers game. You can't go increase numbers on skills ten fold, it's the design of those fights and the skills you approach it with. With most endgame bosses teleporting on struck or some other movement mechanic, skills that pack all their damage into one up front hit are going to be more favorable, not DoT or AoE attacks. Twisted Claw is 100% a DoT attack like a lot of others, flamestrike, abyss, etc.

As far as other buffs, if they aren't groundbreaking then they probably aren't going to force the class into popularity, which is fine. Otherwise you end up with hotfix emergency nerfs, a la trapsin, and you ruin a ton of peoples day. The ways buffs are great for ssins that utilized them already but it doesn't just make them popular. A "ways ssin" isn't even a build thats in the tree but was played at one point so it's less obvious. Twin Fang Strike, the most influenced in tree build by the ways buffs, is helped by that but it doesn't solve the problems that class has as being a melee ssin class without block.

As far as backstab, Nagisin will NEVER be popular in this mod because you need to switch between, at the bare minimum, three skills to keep yourself alive and people much more highly favor cookie cutter spam one ability until dead builds.

Even builds that were "meme" like Javazon are highly played this patch, with good results, because someone took time to actually play it.

As far as needing to kill endgame bosses, that is sure something you can do, but a lot of people don't even like pushing that type of content and all they want to do is farm. If you make farming builds endgame boss viable, their farming skills are going to suffer and you are going to displease those people, and I guarantee that you are in the minority of people caring about endgame boss viability over farming viability.

Primarch wrote:I agree that no one build/setup should be able to steamroll all content and farm efficiently while doing it but each build should at least be able to clear the majority of ubers depending on how you gear them and which skills you prioritize.

There should be no builds that can ONLY farm and struggle with low to mid-range ubers, no matter how you hear them and allocate their skills.


I'm not sure about that last statement, every build that I've played and that I've seen in the hands of more resilient players has been able to push well past the "low to mid-range ubers".

morphed wrote:the wolf dru which has 1k ewd and sure he's a farmer but useless against bosses since his single target skill, or cold sorc how does the ice elementals help against ubers or that frigid sphere, pretty sure you could farm with sorc before the same xD , dont wanna talk about sin ,they say he gets huge buff , but all i see is some pierce and backstabb skill no one using xD, you know you have to kill endgame bosses in this game not farm areas this isnt vanilla diablo you farm endlessly..


A buddy cleared atleast through t14 on wolf and partly into t15 last season. It wasn't easy, but you can do a lot of the content through sheer force of will.
Edited by CallMeCrazySam 4 weeks.
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1.4.1 patch notes now on original post
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delet message, meant to edit other
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CallMeCrazySam wrote:
Primarch wrote:
morphed wrote:What buffed classes are still shit?
the wolf dru which has 1k ewd and sure he's a farmer but useless against bosses since his single target skill, or cold sorc how does the ice elementals help against ubers or that frigid sphere, pretty sure you could farm with sorc before the same xD , dont wanna talk about sin ,they say he gets huge buff , but all i see is some pierce and backstabb skill no one using xD, you know you have to kill endgame bosses in this game not farm areas this isnt vanilla diablo you farm endlessly..


+





I never wanted to increase any skill number, there should be a passive like necro one that increases ur ewd based on stats, not limited passives that give spell dmg with hard points, how is that balanced when necro gets 2k ewd from that passive with stats investment, and wolf dru dont have any ewd xD you can get 1k ewd on him and thats not ez, for example barb can hit 3k+ ewd, but his skills has low % wpn dmg that makes him somehow balanced, Wolf's harbinger should have 35% wpn dmg and higher stats on passive, that will give you the chance to get a bit bigger in the endgame, and that wont be op at all
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Marco wrote:Trying to sound fancy yet your argument is so shallow.

Marco wrote:It's like pretending you care about off-meta yet you expect us to power creep hard so you can pick the easiest fresh over-buffed meta build there currently is so you can spam 1 skill and pretend you're good at the game.


What the fuck is wrong with you people tonight? Someone stepped on your toes?

Want a short, to the point answer? Bring 5 more builds to the power level of maelstorm sin so people dont play maelstorm at the start of every season to get ahead.

Maybe in the next 10 years of development you might get an idea that its better to bring up weak builds to the meta level instead of bullying same builds at the start of every season. Nobody likes seeing performing builds nerfed every patch (people get attached). its not a competitive game, theres no pvp. imagine first working on the shit builds, then making areas harder so everyone gets nerfed equally.

the game is bleeding players every season and this is why.
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not reading any other posts but this patch has been awesome for my cold sorc :) thanks!!
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bapcja wrote:
Marco wrote:Trying to sound fancy yet your argument is so shallow.

Marco wrote:It's like pretending you care about off-meta yet you expect us to power creep hard so you can pick the easiest fresh over-buffed meta build there currently is so you can spam 1 skill and pretend you're good at the game.


What the fuck is wrong with you people tonight? Someone stepped on your toes?

Want a short, to the point answer? Bring 5 more builds to the power level of maelstorm sin so people dont play maelstorm at the start of every season to get ahead.

Maybe in the next 10 years of development you might get an idea that its better to bring up weak builds to the meta level instead of bullying same builds at the start of every season. Nobody likes seeing performing builds nerfed every patch (people get attached). its not a competitive game, theres no pvp. imagine first working on the shit builds, then making areas harder so everyone gets nerfed equally.

the game is bleeding players every season and this is why.


Chillax bro, take a Xanax.

I'm not sure why you are bringing Maelstrom ssin up as some sort of metric of OP-ness, it isn't OP. It's easy to build. You can put similar efforts into other builds and get similar results if you really tried to.

I do find it funny how a lot of people who post in these topics cry about X being unbalanced, better than Y, or something of the like, but they provide no solutions. "buff my build" isn't a solution and you don't have access to the data set the devs do or even a lot of the other players.

You want builds buffed, but you also argue against nerfs of builds, which as Marco talked about was the way Ultimative was "balanced". Buff everything up, and they are somewhat in the "nerf" stage of fixing it now. I'm not sure if you played back them, but the game was wayyyyy easier because everything was overtuned. Yeah, things may have been over nerfed or left at the way side, but how many past patches have had near full tree reworks that have made them "viable" for the majority of players? What builds that the devs have passed through since say 1.0, have been "nerfed" out of viability?

Krusha wrote:not reading any other posts but this patch has been awesome for my cold sorc :) thanks!!


It's a very good idea not to read the rest of this topic aside from patch notes :D
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morphed wrote:There should be always power creep in a game but find a way to make it happend in the very endgame with huge time invested, right now there wont be a power creep at all coz endgame = small improvement limited gear, and im talking about experienced players, coz most ppl dont care about this, dont even get to high lab or to try samael... newbs dont stand a chance vs these ubers, and experience players struggle , and when you think you cant improve your character anymore whats the point to continue playing though... but you know better i guess


The power creeping solution you suggest is exactly what creates the problem you hate: if all builds have a score of 1, and you make a build = 2 so it gets noticed, you are left with two options: you either put 2 back to 1 (muh nerfs!) or you increase ALL builds to be = 2 (power creep). Note that the outcome is the same (all builds are 1 or 2) yet the second option requires a lot of mainteneance, also translates to less new content.


bapcja wrote:Want a short, to the point answer? Bring 5 more builds to the power level of maelstorm sin so people dont play maelstorm at the start of every season to get ahead.

Maybe in the next 10 years of development you might get an idea that its better to bring up weak builds to the meta level instead of bullying same builds at the start of every season. Nobody likes seeing performing builds nerfed every patch (people get attached). its not a competitive game, theres no pvp. imagine first working on the shit builds, then making areas harder so everyone gets nerfed equally.

the game is bleeding players every season and this is why.


There is no escape route for your argument buddy. You are basically saying "dont nerf popular builds". But we can't nerf unpopular ones either for obvious reasons. Therefore we can't nerf anything. This is power creep and is not a new concept, which is why I pointed out your fancy writing, because you made a point which is such a primitive game design concept. Where were you when there were tons of stats rolling back, overflows, due to game limitations and just increasing stuff over and over on top? I'm not saying i've been here for 10 years so you just accept my point and move on, I'm telling you we've been through this many times, spent countless amount of hours working on shifting stuff back down instead of new content.

Your last comment (which happens to be statistically innaccurate) resumes perfectly why you're posting here. Do the changes I like or I quit. Bad troll.