Σ 2.3.0 Announced

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midknight
Vampiress
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Jampula wrote:
Scalewinged wrote:...this feature won't make your melee skills being ranged.... you will just be able to cast it right in front of char with shift pressed. Nothing more.

It does more than that, you can actually aim/time SoR, Divine Judgement, Earthquake, Iceburst, Retaliate etc, even with glass-builds and against certain ubers that previously require deadly face-to-face-time.


midknight wrote:I think class balancing is pretty good for endgame actually apart from barbarian and amazon (all javazon). This ladder on hardcore for 141+ there were 4 paladins 5 sorceress 3 amazon 3 druid 5 necromancer 4 assassins and 1 barbarian. Hardcore builds tend to be less reliant on umo's and relic. In SC people gravitate around specific metas but there are plenty of other really strong builds its just that no one plays them. For example Melee sorc is 149 and Black ice sin with 26k life is on lvl 147.

Do people actually follow the ladder? In my eyes it's just for people who have too much time and TG. It doesn't tell anything about balance.


TG is pretty useless in HC. A lot of people complain about balancing when they dont even know what builds there are that do endgame.
Saibo
Jungle Hunter
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midknight wrote:
Saibo wrote:
Pinball wrote:But are minion based builds OP? These relics are used the most in Totem & Summonec.And can these builds do Sam, Deimoss? Ofc Summonec can do Sam with 2VK but its not without using these summons lol.

Javazon + Paladin is being OP and ppl asking for nerfs only to summoner builds. Idk why...


Paladin has been the most versatile and powerful class for many seasons, years, with his skills and items, he becomes a full-fledged OP. I don't know why they continue to give one class so much support and love. Javazon, received support very recently, but already the OP. Assassin and Druid also lasted on high ladders, how many seasons 1-2 and where are they now? The rest didn't sink much. (hurtful)


I think class balancing is pretty good for endgame actually apart from barbarian and amazon (all javazon). This ladder on hardcore for 141+ there were 4 paladins 5 sorceress 3 amazon 3 druid 5 necromancer 4 assassins and 1 barbarian. Hardcore builds tend to be less reliant on umo's and relic. In SC people gravitate around specific metas but there are plenty of other really strong builds its just that no one plays them. For example Melee sorc is 149 and Black ice sin with 26k life is on lvl 147.


How many builds (and build variations for each class) can go through, say, 10 labs? How about killing Deimos at least 60%? I do not argue that these areas require better equipment. But even this is not a guarantee of this. On the example of the Paladin, this is very well traced. Paladin is in the OP stage? (as Pinball pointed out) He worked as a cameraman for a long time. It should have been rewatched many seasons ago. Yes, there is also Javazon, but she felt the power only recently. What about others? And what about the level?
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Solfege
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Jampula wrote:
Scalewinged wrote:...this feature won't make your melee skills being ranged.... you will just be able to cast it right in front of char with shift pressed. Nothing more.

It does more than that, you can actually aim/time SoR, Divine Judgement, Earthquake, Iceburst, Retaliate etc, even with glass-builds and against certain ubers that previously require deadly face-to-face-time.


Yep. Imo, this is the most appealing thing about "attack ground." Really hoping it opens up new ways to play melee more strategically, especially with delayed skills.
midknight
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There are at least 20 builds that can do up to labs 8 umoless and relic less and all the builds need at least 2 plus ssu's. tier 9 and 10 labs typically require heavy gearing since it is the hardest content of all here so it makes sense for it to be very hard and typically require umos relics support to do them. Deimoss requires very high damage builds on 100% difficulty since he has over 800k hp, 1.5% regen per second, 140 damage divisor. Deimoss is do able on easy difficulty but require high player skill and knowledge. If everyone can kill Deimoss easily ladder would finish in a week. I have a thread on hardcore viable builds and i am sure there more. Its just everyone plays the same meta.
midknight
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Balancing can always be better for sure, but for a patch update I wouldn't get your hopes up on all of a sudden there are 45 plus viable builds to do tier 8 labs ( there are at least 10 more sc viable builds but i didnt include them in my overview of hc builds). Javazon for sure is OP since i think its the only build that can do Samuel umoless and with only 3 ssu's.
Saibo
Jungle Hunter
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Maybe you're right. But why doesn't the meta change then? There is also no build variability. I would like to see variety in classes and builds for the final game. We see only the same.
Pandemonium
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I mean, i always hop in/off from Median after a while but i can see what people mean when they talk about balance of specs and the meta.
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cnlnjzfjb
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I might be wrong, but I kinda feel like weapon damage based melee/ranged Assassin needs a better mechanism farming skill in late game, maybe sth like barb's earthquake. Same problem like melee pala, 100% weapon damage based Retaliate with no multi-hits is just of no use in late game, that is why nearly all melee palas have to use Cherubim in late game.

Throw sin has good AOE skills, like Maelstorm/Scorpin Blade, but both are just not strong enough to support her in labs. As a result, throw sin has to use Storm Crows/Wychwind + Broadside in labs, which is not a pleasant playing experience.

Batstrike has good damage, but 1 second CD. I dont know how many ppl actually can use Batstrike to farm t9/t10 labs....Also heavy piano playstyle. The only one I know is vit-based clawsin using a white zero socket claw with 11 Elemental Dominion on it...

Hades Gate feels good, but needs corpses. So not fit in labs. And also piano playstyle. Even without corpse problem, I dont think Hades Gate can farm high labs.

Newly-reworked Shunpo with 75% weapon damage is just not enough. Even with the short-CD Broadside from Zular Khan's Tempest, it is even not working well in scos. U cant rely on it to be ur main farming skill from my experience. Same like pounce. U can tell it from the price of Shunpo relic on market.

Whirlpool was once good, but not much used by ppl since the nerf. Black ice sin may still use it, but that is because she has no better choices....

ATMG? Not that good as a farming skill.

For lategame weapon damage based Assassin, I have to use skills like earthquake/Cherubim/Guard Tower from relics, they feel much better/more comfortable than her own ones. I wonder if she needs a more powerful/better mechanism farming skill in late game? Or maybe I just didnt play it right...
CaoBao
Stygian Watcher
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cnlnjzfjb wrote:I might be wrong, but I kinda feel like weapon damage based melee/ranged Assassin needs a better mechanism farming skill in late game, maybe sth like barb's earthquake. Same problem like melee pala, 100% weapon damage based Retaliate with no multi-hits is just of no use in late game, that is why nearly all melee palas have to use Cherubim in late game.

Throw sin has good AOE skills, like Maelstorm/Scorpin Blade, but both are just not strong enough to support her in labs. As a result, throw sin has to use Storm Crows/Wychwind + Broadside in labs, which is not a pleasant playing experience.

Batstrike has good damage, but 1 second CD. I dont know how many ppl actually can use Batstrike to farm t9/t10 labs....Also heavy piano playstyle. The only one I know is vit-based clawsin using a white zero socket claw with 11 Elemental Dominion on it...

Hades Gate feels good, but needs corpses. So not fit in labs. And also piano playstyle. Even without corpse problem, I dont think Hades Gate can farm high labs.

Newly-reworked Shunpo with 75% weapon damage is just not enough. Even with the short-CD Broadside from Zular Khan's Tempest, it is even not working well in scos. U cant rely on it to be ur main farming skill from my experience. Same like pounce. U can tell it from the price of Shunpo relic on market.

Whirlpool was once good, but not much used by ppl since the nerf. Black ice sin may still use it, but that is because she has no better choices....

ATMG? Not that good as a farming skill.

For lategame weapon damage based Assassin, I have to use skills like earthquake/Cherubim/Guard Tower from relics, they feel much better/more comfortable than her own ones. I wonder if she needs a more powerful/better mechanism farming skill in late game? Or maybe I just didnt play it right...

Whirlpool is still quite good, just what you need in high dense Labs, as long as you have decent damage. I use it in rotation along with Broadside and charged Strike for high lvl Labs. Whirlpool Broadside Whirlpool and finish things off with charged Strike. It is not super fast but it gets job done.
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Jampula
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But it is such piano-playing *snarf snarf*! If I can't hold my single finger killing everything the build is bad *snarf*!

Labs were the downfall (np. CoB - Downfall) of this mod. This announcement promises to fix that but we shall see...