2.10 Bugs and Feedback

Discuss Median XL!
Trang Oul
Vampiress
38 | 2
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Siosilvar wrote:consistent with vanilla d2. spears are spears, javelins are not spears (despite one being named "throwing spear"). when in doubt, base items page

Javelins, including Amazon javelins, are spears in D2 - you can use both physical and lightning melee skills both with (proper) spears and javelins. So can Desert Mercenaries equip both of them.
Speaking technically, javelins are both spears and combo weapons. The latter is a type for weapons that can be used in melee or thrown.

This hierarchy could have been changed in MXL, or just MXL spear skills exclude javelins as a valid weapon type.
metasequoia
Monkey King
271 | 24
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Patron Badge
Patreon Contributor
also check weapon type modifier on item in game... if it says "Spear", its a spear, if "javelin", ... its before the inaccurate attack speed description (very fast attack speed)

the amazon trees are not meant to mingle.
Siosilvar
Cow Ninja
1265 | 277
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Great Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 50.000 views
Great Love Badge
Earned over 100 cookies
Great Guide Badge
Created 3 complete character guides
Trang Oul wrote:
Siosilvar wrote:consistent with vanilla d2. spears are spears, javelins are not spears (despite one being named "throwing spear"). when in doubt, base items page

Javelins, including Amazon javelins, are spears in D2 - you can use both physical and lightning melee skills both with (proper) spears and javelins. So can Desert Mercenaries equip both of them.
Speaking technically, javelins are both spears and combo weapons. The latter is a type for weapons that can be used in melee or thrown.

This hierarchy could have been changed in MXL, or just MXL spear skills exclude javelins as a valid weapon type.


a2 mercs can also equip polearms and use Jab with them, which zon can't do. bad example. barb getting spear mastery with them would be better.

that said, ItemTypes.txt is the source of truth... I don't have access to MXL txts any more or I could give a firm answer. i can say that the 250+ spear max damage affixes are excluded from javelins, so it's probable that jave is still equiv2 to spea (and maybe the same for the sacred item types qjav and... qspe? don't remember the spear one) but explicitly excluded from the spear skills. it's kind of implied - zon is very strict about only giving you access to one weapon tree
saanctum
Prowler
17 | 8
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
Siosilvar wrote:
saanctum wrote:I replied before I saw your bigger picture post. That's certainly one way to go about addressing Sorc survivability issues. Less design work too than to figure out something on theme for each elemental tree. I think the proposed Mana Shield discounts are a little too high though. Maybe not too much with removed meditation, but Arcane Fury gets that discount because it needs it for a 95% shield. Even at 60%, probably will not feel the mana cost at all at 140. The discount scales exponentially.


resists also scale exponentially, and mana shield doesn't get them.

if you have 85% resist and take a 10,000 base damage hit, even at say 8/16 and 60% you lose 4250 mana for 900 damage reduction (1500 to 600)

iirc 10k is two or three hits from old lab harpies, for reference


I know mana shield is really expensive especially against elemental damage because of that type being balanced around high resists. I'm responding based of feel from current numbers. Arcane Fury is .95*.6*.2 = .114 mana per raw incoming damage (assuming advertised game numbers are accurate rather than approximations of x/16 as you've been saying). That feels pretty good for lightning up to lab 8 between the increased avoid and mana regen penalty (but without any Moon Crystals). Current base is .15 mana per raw incoming damage. Arcane fury is about a 25% discount and the numbers feel much better. Your proposed table would be .075 mana per raw incoming damage at max mana shield and lvl 140. That's half of current base. At 150 that shrinks even more to .0375. One quarter. You're not even going to notice a mana cost for mana shield at those numbers.
User avatar
felix0808
Abomination
148 | 23
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Ideally is lower the default max elem res from 75% -> 50%. So mana shield will work equally vs phys and elem damage. And hard limit for both phys and elem max res something like 75%. But unfortunately balance it would require a lot of work.
roceteo242
Sasquatch
69 | 6
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
It would be nice to add "Item cannot be traded here" to all tu/su/sets/relics etc., so we don't accidentally sell them like some of us probably done before.
Image
saanctum
Prowler
17 | 8
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
QOL leveling suggestions: Change the rune rewards on Qual Qehk and Countess/Hellforge. The current runes are meaningless by the time you complete them. Especially on Hell, the natural leveling progression puts you at lease at like 115 in Act 4 and Act 5. Common runes just aren't exciting at that point. The "make your TU's" guide meta partly grows out of the inequity between guaranteed ways to find ACs and the randomness of finding the necessary common runes for the start of endgame runewords.

NM Qual Kehk currently gives 40-45 This would be a good reward for Normal. Lets you downlevel if needed to the few build specific useful RWs in that medium range when you're high enough level to equip them.
NM Countess should reliably give similar or slightly higher range (duplicate main stat runes for sockets or similar level runewords).
NM Qual Kehk should give you at least a guaranteed Cham (lots of useful early end game items use it).
NM Hellforge should have a good chance for another very high common rune for starting endgame rune words. No lower than Ohm.

For Hell. Countess can be biased spread of high common runes for more runewords as needed after your first free one. Hellforge should give a random enhanced rune up through like Doj? Hell QK is perfect for the 3 charm upgrade runes Thal, Xith, Urt.
saanctum
Prowler
17 | 8
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
Sorc ideas:

Sio's Mana shield buff idea. Takes testing to figure out what a reasonable cost and mitigation total is. Remove/change Arcane Fury and rework so that Mana only gets access to it for at least the damage benefit (or maybe keep it as is at the cost of locking out other main trees.) And change Arcane Sustenance to an always on passive that locks you to melee. Mana cost to .25 per damage prevented at max investment and .125 for melee. 60% max shield strength? Would make sustaining shield for casters at 60% tough but doable with serious investment in mana regen and max mana/energy. Cold with Bane of the Horadrim feels tough at low levels (but you tend to have mana issues at that level range anyway/before all charms) and my more geared but missing UMOs lightning sorc worries a lot about mana in labs with the current shield (25 % damage reduction and .6 mana per damage ie the flipside of the max strength shield above.) Will take testing and lots of people with access to good gear to figure out if this is too much or not. The non-meleesorc builds are so rippy at the moment. They need the help and making Mana shield more of a mechanic to build around would set the class apart further from others.

Lightning
Thunderstone heal change (see my last post). Base the heal on max mana. Elemental full energy build like Fire.

Covens
The first tier is all mostly fine. Some of the numbers on them are just strictly worse than other classes versions of the same things (exs, druid gets 100 life per point vs living flame's 40something, classes with hard point avoid get 1 per point vs .5 from Warp Armor). Besides Snow Queen they all have a pretty solid benefit for 1 point or oskill from Vaetia's Wall. The Coven abilities that need work are the second tier. Fire Dance is solid and the others range quite a bit.

Hive is just bad. Bad at spreading poison in trivial farming zones when it's your main damage type. Bad damage that gets overwritten by your real poison skills. Damage is negligible if you aren't poison with the necessary pierce. Give this skill a purpose or change it for something else (leaving the few items with it intact for the memes and memories). A buff that's useful for all specs and something to make it especially attractive to poison. If Hive can be coded to help you passively spread haunt that would be worth considering (would need to be locked to hard point investment or remove the o skill sources of it.) But just doing something different with this spot on the tree that makes picking the coven more appealing would be nice. If we want to keep the ability in Sorc identity, It needs to do more poison DPS than Lorenado to have any impact on that front. (Vengeful Power is fine - the crush attacker is rather obsolete/not worth hardpoints but the phys res is a staple option)

NC Need to remove Dex->Energy? Remove hard point range "buff" or rework targeting. Current targeting makes investing in it really poor for damage on lone targets. Novas happen ever secondish, pick a spawn position and then do not fire if nothing is in range. Increasing the radius makes not firing more likely. You can get some damage out of it in really dense areas with a bigger radius or by keeping it at 1 point and getting in mobs faces. I think the targeting behavior should change to picking a mob and dropping a bolt that turns into a nova of the same size. Should lower the damage a bit. It does good damage when it shotguns and current behavior means it shotguns something you want it to once in a blue moon. Would probably be too good if it always direct hit lone targets like bosses.

Living Flame fine even if life per point is kinda low. Dance also fine. Good offense buff

Snow Queen could use some flat physical damage reduction instead of defense. Make it the free value from 1 point/Vaetia's wall. Scaling should be similar to blessed life (designed in concert with cold and mana shield changes) with a hard point synergy. Ice Elems are great early on all specs that don't click devotion and a pain (to not reliable enough) to manage for the buff late. Would be nice for cold if you could get the aura without the summon someway. Switch the Minion damage to CSD to elemental spell damage so it has more late game appeal to non cold.

Trees
Poison
Blight is a joke. 40 MS and 50 PSD at 2k energy is not interesting or even that good. Change MS to %life per second based on Energy and change spell damage to poison skill duration based on Vit (figure out appropriate numbers) and rework Elucidation so that its bonus lorenados increase max projectiles and skill duration improves Arachnomancy damage at multiplier that makes Shael in armor less damage than good jewels but Shaen more damage. Ideally this synergizes with the last buff with arachno duration based on energy over 1500. Because of how poison works, Arachno needs to be much higher dps in its current form. There are interesting strengths to having a big dps long (for an ARPG) duration poison on a boss (almost full focus on dodging/kiting). Shotgunning current Lorenado results in about its dps in frame 1 damage per cast, but the max dps "rotation" is just too inferior to Fire/lightning. Just comparing half geared fresh 105 fire and lightning to almost full TUs 105 poison. No MOs on anyone. Less spell damage and SF Thunderstone is about 100K dps with a 5 frame staff. Flamestrike is about 120k. Shotgun Flamefront is 70k. Poison is 20k Arachno and 20k melee range shotgunning Lorenado... That was the first sorc I leveled that struggled with the Butcher and Infernal Machine... The tree needs a big single target damage buff. Lorenado feels okayish for clearing (mostly keeps up with posioning a pack and then running gameplay). Bosses are a long slog from Hell onward. Arachno on its own should be at least half the dps of fire and lightning premier single target nukes. Then balance the other frame 1 poison damage spam ability so it makes up about the other half while putting yourself at risk.

Cold
-Old identity crisis. Are we clicking Melee Devo or not (Churel? Haunt? Ice Elems). Are we some sort of melee summoner hybrid? All the Ice Elem items and the TU Lamellar/other items built off the aura to give you marginally more damage than other options (8 minion damage targeted mod on crafted jewels and some free bits on charms/alternative key are the only reliable and significant sources that aren't just worse than what you'd be using instead). Set with a bunch of minion life and Dex stats and pathetic +skills, spell damage, SF, Energy etc compared to poison, lightning, and fire. I think we should just pick the melee caster approach. Redo the set and give the Ice Elem aura to the tree somehow as long as you have a hard point in the coven skill. Also make Churel castable under melee devotion.
-Needs help mid-lategame with survivability but may be fixed with Mana Shield changes because of how melee devo (assumed) and energy shield work with flat damage reduction. It'd be nice to remove the cap on Crystalline Barrier (and possibly adjust the formula because of the increasing returns.) This will take math and some review of the content to figure out what reasonable numbers are at different gear levels and settled mana shield maximum strength I'd suggest a higher cap that's closer to expected endgame spell damage totals with the numbers balanced so that you're significantly tougher than other specs while mana shield holds but can't just face tank the big endgame multiple damage instance "don't stay in the fire mechanics." Might need some adjusting on the ones that are all physical with lower numbers because assumed 50% vs 90% mitigation after flat damage reduction. I don't know what what the numbers on those abilities are but I think getting like 50-60% effective damage reduction (with some gear help) against those abilities would not break things. Just need to keep in mind the other potential sources of stacking flat damage reduction available (mostly angelics and suggested snow queen change). If it takes 600 flat damage reduction to get to those numbers there shouldn't be much to worry about with random extra sources.
-Double AR bonus on capstone. There are some decent options for a bit of LOMA/MOMA to help sustain while dealing with bosses and only fair to give similar free AR bonus as other melee caster specs.
Some QoL suggestions after fixing the tankiness issues.
-CBF in tree (theme).
-Holy Freeze effect with similar slow strength to Haunt. (Chasing down runners with the specs nukes is a pain and targets that run over your Novas takea lot less damage) The freeze effect from wintertide and upgrades are neglible impact on an 8 or 7 second cooldown ability. Adding Holy Freeze with like a 2/3 screen radius would take the freeze's purpose. Partial uptime regen is kind of a feels bad especially on a significant CD repositioning tool. Either adjust numbers on regen (half uptime so half effect) and build it into the spec, or, if we want to keep this as a tankiness button with partial uptime, a flat elemental damage reduction buff would be a great defense steroid with the other changes. Heck give it the same formula aa the aura so you double the mitigation from it for part time.

Fire
The spec has been pretty stable besides Havoc stuff. From leveling it, Havoc is in a very strange place. 15 seconds baseline is kind of ridiculous for an ARPG. 12-13 seconds is also ridiculous and that;s with energy you could typically expect in early late game. 6 second Fire Dance is too long to drop every screen. I know it's a nice meme (420 Blaze it!), but does this ability still need to have 1 sec CD gated behind ~6k energy? I see the damage is still getting nerfed, so I assume so (little experience with it lategame). Can we at least change the scaling to something like the Superposition formula? 5-6 seconds at low levels, 3-4 around 100-120, then 2 seconds at 2400 energy would make it a button you press regularly from the point you unlock it rather than it being an ability you only skill later in the game when you can bring it's CD down to something reasonable.
User avatar
Taem
Slain Soul
2573 | 179
Great Posting Badge
Posted over 2.500 messages
Legendary Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 250.000 views
Great Love Badge
Earned over 100 cookies
Great Supporter Badge
Donated 5 times
saanctum wrote:QOL leveling suggestions: Change the rune rewards on Qual Qehk and Countess/Hellforge. The current runes are meaningless by the time you complete them. Especially on Hell, the natural leveling progression puts you at lease at like 115 in Act 4 and Act 5. Common runes just aren't exciting at that point. The "make your TU's" guide meta partly grows out of the inequity between guaranteed ways to find ACs and the randomness of finding the necessary common runes for the start of endgame runewords.

NM Qual Kehk currently gives 40-45 This would be a good reward for Normal. Lets you downlevel if needed to the few build specific useful RWs in that medium range when you're high enough level to equip them.
NM Countess should reliably give similar or slightly higher range (duplicate main stat runes for sockets or similar level runewords).
NM Qual Kehk should give you at least a guaranteed Cham (lots of useful early end game items use it).
NM Hellforge should have a good chance for another very high common rune for starting endgame rune words. No lower than Ohm.

For Hell. Countess can be biased spread of high common runes for more runewords as needed after your first free one. Hellforge should give a random enhanced rune up through like Doj? Hell QK is perfect for the 3 charm upgrade runes Thal, Xith, Urt.


Would be cool to buff the content and reward. Now barb cages are guarded by those fire dropping baddies from Laz era that drops eyes in A2, and reward is Blood raven instead of Ral Ort Tal or the runes for a utilitarian runeword.
User avatar
Jampula
Shadowgate Totem
1713 | 96
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Great Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 50.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Beacon should really be replaced with something actually useful, now it's only worth is nostalgic and little movement speed bonus. There has been enough talk about Queen of Blades so I don't even start, only useful (and fun :) ) to watch mob in Bremmtown to jump to their own death, but that uber is easy anyway.

I still see Evil Urns from time to time, would it be possible to give them some meaning again? No idea what but I'm not the creative type.