holy melee pala?????
very very interesting read ill get back to you on that thank you
cowking wrote:When you getCalypso, MO first with ed and after making the runeword deadly strike. If you don't have enough sustain, you might have to MO ed + life leech, but preferably you'd rather get LL jewels instead. Oh and I forgot double MO has been removed, so crafts are probably gonna beat calypso.
So now that ive got calypso. what Helmet do I wear instead of the miasma one. ive lost 80k defenses, retaliate is at one point even though it's my main damage ability. I assume i have to craft some honorific boots. is there a specific procedure for making really high defense level 1 honorifics or do i snag up any blue boots i can get and start MOing what i need on them?
also what is an Innate 20% str armor? A base that has 20% str rolls on it or just a base that gets 20%str on the regular while rolling it
If you don't have Yul the next best thing (or best) is probably
You don't want honorific boots unless you've ran out of shrines, you want crafted ilvl 1 boots.
+20% strength is a mod that can spawn on the armor when you craft it.
Haareis
, but you'd need some -10 req jewels and/or MO with -req + some stat charms to use the T6 version due high dex req. Keep in mind you're going to get a Yul by killing a few mobs in terror fauzt.Haareis
Diadem (4)
Defense: 36 to 80
Required Level: 10
Required Dexterity: 28
Item Level: 1
1% Chance to cast level 1 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 5-7 Cold Damage
(2 to 4)% Life stolen per Hit
(4 to 6)% to Strength
(4 to 6)% to Dexterity
(4 to 6)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(16 to 25)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 103 to 194
Required Level: 28
Required Dexterity: 57
Item Level: 31
2% Chance to cast level 5 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 18-20 Cold Damage
(8 to 10)% Life stolen per Hit
(7 to 9)% to Strength
(7 to 9)% to Dexterity
(7 to 9)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(36 to 45)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 215 to 386
Required Level: 46
Required Dexterity: 137
Item Level: 51
3% Chance to cast level 9 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 55-65 Cold Damage
(14 to 16)% Life stolen per Hit
(10 to 12)% to Strength
(10 to 12)% to Dexterity
(10 to 12)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(56 to 65)%
Socketed (3)
Defense: 296 to 523
Required Level: 54
Required Dexterity: 294
Item Level: 77
4% Chance to cast level 11 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 175-190 Cold Damage
(17 to 19)% Life stolen per Hit
(13 to 15)% to Strength
(13 to 15)% to Dexterity
(13 to 15)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(66 to 75)%
Socketed (4)
Diadem (4)
Defense: 36 to 80
Required Level: 10
Required Dexterity: 28
Item Level: 1
1% Chance to cast level 1 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 5-7 Cold Damage
(2 to 4)% Life stolen per Hit
(4 to 6)% to Strength
(4 to 6)% to Dexterity
(4 to 6)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(16 to 25)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 103 to 194
Required Level: 28
Required Dexterity: 57
Item Level: 31
2% Chance to cast level 5 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 18-20 Cold Damage
(8 to 10)% Life stolen per Hit
(7 to 9)% to Strength
(7 to 9)% to Dexterity
(7 to 9)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(36 to 45)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 215 to 386
Required Level: 46
Required Dexterity: 137
Item Level: 51
3% Chance to cast level 9 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 55-65 Cold Damage
(14 to 16)% Life stolen per Hit
(10 to 12)% to Strength
(10 to 12)% to Dexterity
(10 to 12)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(56 to 65)%
Socketed (3)
Defense: 296 to 523
Required Level: 54
Required Dexterity: 294
Item Level: 77
4% Chance to cast level 11 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 175-190 Cold Damage
(17 to 19)% Life stolen per Hit
(13 to 15)% to Strength
(13 to 15)% to Dexterity
(13 to 15)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(66 to 75)%
Socketed (4)
You don't want honorific boots unless you've ran out of shrines, you want crafted ilvl 1 boots.
docs wrote:Rare Downlevel
This recipe allows you to create yourself some baseline items. These items can be helpful to craft low-level items with space for Mystic Orbs.
Rare weapon/armor + rare amulet + rare ring → reroll item as level 1 rare item
+20% strength is a mod that can spawn on the armor when you craft it.
cowking wrote:If you don't have Yul the next best thing (or best) is probablyHaareis, but you'd need some -10 req jewels and/or MO with -req + some stat charms to use the T6 version due high dex req. Keep in mind you're going to get a Yul by killing a few mobs in terror fauzt.Haareis
Diadem (4)
Defense: 36 to 80
Required Level: 10
Required Dexterity: 28
Item Level: 1
1% Chance to cast level 1 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 5-7 Cold Damage
(2 to 4)% Life stolen per Hit
(4 to 6)% to Strength
(4 to 6)% to Dexterity
(4 to 6)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(16 to 25)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 103 to 194
Required Level: 28
Required Dexterity: 57
Item Level: 31
2% Chance to cast level 5 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 18-20 Cold Damage
(8 to 10)% Life stolen per Hit
(7 to 9)% to Strength
(7 to 9)% to Dexterity
(7 to 9)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(36 to 45)%
Socketed (2)
Defense: 215 to 386
Required Level: 46
Required Dexterity: 137
Item Level: 51
3% Chance to cast level 9 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 55-65 Cold Damage
(14 to 16)% Life stolen per Hit
(10 to 12)% to Strength
(10 to 12)% to Dexterity
(10 to 12)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(56 to 65)%
Socketed (3)
Defense: 296 to 523
Required Level: 54
Required Dexterity: 294
Item Level: 77
4% Chance to cast level 11 Shackles of Ice on Melee Attack
Adds 175-190 Cold Damage
(17 to 19)% Life stolen per Hit
(13 to 15)% to Strength
(13 to 15)% to Dexterity
(13 to 15)% to Vitality
Cold Resist +(66 to 75)%
Socketed (4)
You don't want honorific boots unless you've ran out of shrines, you want crafted ilvl 1 boots.
+20% strength is a mod that can spawn on the armor when you craft it.
but i have a tonne of shrines. but shrine crafting a pair of boots leaves it at level 90 and then i can't put anything other than 5 orbs on it and because ive gotten rid of shield, onehanders, unique helms with sockets for resist gems. armor with no slots for pgems. belt with no slots because its vith, dying harder than ever.
also whenever something explodes when it dies, my character becomes silenced and cannot swing anymore for a second- two seconds while enemies are chainexlpoding due to poison. I face cows, start hitting and then im not allowed to hit anything anymore and then i get hit 3 times and die. is this supposed to happen. attack speed must not matter if i silence myself for hitting something once????? no clue whats going on
Swear to god every single time something dies it makes an ice explosion that silences me so if retaliate kills something at the back of the horde I can't even fight for several seconds and then i die because cows at the front ignore retaliate effects because 20 year old game
Your boots ilvl problem is solved by making it ilvl 1 like I already posted. Also the lower quality of boots (boots vs. plated boots) the less likely it will roll high rlvl mods.
Your pgem problem is mostly solved by doing black road and azmodan which is very easy on pala thanks to DA. Clear a path to the temple, unequip all gear to your inventory, go inside the temple and reroll the map until you get a sparsely populated one where you can lure azmodan to back left or back right corner. Then do some suicide runs to lure mobs away from the opposite corner of azmodan. Re-equip all your gear from inventory and go to that clear corner. Now you can pull mobs there little by little and kill them since azmodan's invulnerability aura has a radius that doesn't cover the entire temple. The point is you want to use suicide runs to manipulate mob positions inside the temple on a good map roll to either A.) clear the temple before attacking azmodan or B.) isolate azmodan in one corner with TP without other mobs present.
Did you finish black road? If not, why are you doing cows? Are you using merc? Have you MOed your weapon? You can also try LAEK instead of LL especially with Haareis in this patch since LL is nerfed.
If everything is exploding to glacial novas and you get locked out, that's good because it means everything should be frozen to shit and dying left and right (unless freeze rates have been adjusted in this patch). Try using divine judgement/normal attack when you get locked. If it bothers you that much just use a craft instead, you can use charsi quest to get a rare hand of god from a white one.
It's also possible the wdm nerf on retaliate was just too rough and it's now only good for spreading plague unless you have demiurge active, I haven't played holydin this ladder so idk.
Your pgem problem is mostly solved by doing black road and azmodan which is very easy on pala thanks to DA. Clear a path to the temple, unequip all gear to your inventory, go inside the temple and reroll the map until you get a sparsely populated one where you can lure azmodan to back left or back right corner. Then do some suicide runs to lure mobs away from the opposite corner of azmodan. Re-equip all your gear from inventory and go to that clear corner. Now you can pull mobs there little by little and kill them since azmodan's invulnerability aura has a radius that doesn't cover the entire temple. The point is you want to use suicide runs to manipulate mob positions inside the temple on a good map roll to either A.) clear the temple before attacking azmodan or B.) isolate azmodan in one corner with TP without other mobs present.
Did you finish black road? If not, why are you doing cows? Are you using merc? Have you MOed your weapon? You can also try LAEK instead of LL especially with Haareis in this patch since LL is nerfed.
If everything is exploding to glacial novas and you get locked out, that's good because it means everything should be frozen to shit and dying left and right (unless freeze rates have been adjusted in this patch). Try using divine judgement/normal attack when you get locked. If it bothers you that much just use a craft instead, you can use charsi quest to get a rare hand of god from a white one.
It's also possible the wdm nerf on retaliate was just too rough and it's now only good for spreading plague unless you have demiurge active, I haven't played holydin this ladder so idk.
suchbalance wrote:For the n-th time: all WDM on skills was reduced by 50% as part of the damage rework. This was done to make you deal 1/8th of your damage compared to before, it is not a nerf.
I guess I can provide some feedback from the perspective of a midgame holy melee paladin with basic charms and so on - I really think the class has a bit of an identity crisis going on, it felt more or less impossible to get ok animations even with the holy morph and now with the base items page actually updated I can see why - fucking *40* WSM on hand of god which with the speedcalc shows a progression of 10fpa as the highest realistic attack progression (142 effective as, next breakpoint is 223 and if we want to be full memesters one could get 8fpa for a mere investment of *414* attack speed)
While looking at superbeast table and seeing that unholy can get 7fpa with 157as, arguably with a worse fhr animation but that doesn't really count that much in median - offense being the best defense and so on.
Which brings me to the point about identity crisis, can a melee paladin actually get viable defense of some sort to 'protect' weak animations such as these? Not really, a 980% dragonheart gets me to 300k~ and the only good source of defense left is basically a Kra RW instead of the holy melee set armor but well.
This forced me in smaxing demiurge so I would have a power spike in order to establish a presence in a room, every uber mob has at least 15% cth on me and the horrible attack speed forces constant movement and getting hitstunned is deadly even with 5 frame recovery.
I've gone through a couple of weapons - Calypso is a strong runeword by all means but it peaks at around 420max now when double MO isn't possible and that really doesn't seem enough when crafts will be at least 600 with ok rolls, Gehenna suffers from the same issue, peaks at 400~ in a MOed lucky hand of god, Brahman seems ok for cheesing kurast 3000 I guess but I dont really see the general application beyond that and then I've tried some various proc crafts...
Now with the base items part of the documentation updated so I dont have to guess what WSM mod my weapons are supposed to have I'll probably try to craft a holy lance and see if general gameplay improves.
The supposed single target skill (oh boy 2/5 wdm and no scaling damage tied to skill level or anything of the sort with some sort of ND attached to it, I'm sure that someone with actual details can elaborate on that part) feels like it's outperformed by either retaling or if in some cases kiting with normal attack+whirlpool poison application which is absurd at any rate.
tl;dr - someone else try divine judgment and tell me if it's supposed to be used ever because even with the supposed >Fixed an issue with Divine Judgement damage delivery it still feels overwhelmingly weak.
edit: https://u.nya.is/nhbowi.webm made a quick show of what I'm using, the kiting set of ssu throwing/snake stance shield and the other boots with whirlpool for when it's needed
While looking at superbeast table and seeing that unholy can get 7fpa with 157as, arguably with a worse fhr animation but that doesn't really count that much in median - offense being the best defense and so on.
Which brings me to the point about identity crisis, can a melee paladin actually get viable defense of some sort to 'protect' weak animations such as these? Not really, a 980% dragonheart gets me to 300k~ and the only good source of defense left is basically a Kra RW instead of the holy melee set armor but well.
This forced me in smaxing demiurge so I would have a power spike in order to establish a presence in a room, every uber mob has at least 15% cth on me and the horrible attack speed forces constant movement and getting hitstunned is deadly even with 5 frame recovery.
I've gone through a couple of weapons - Calypso is a strong runeword by all means but it peaks at around 420max now when double MO isn't possible and that really doesn't seem enough when crafts will be at least 600 with ok rolls, Gehenna suffers from the same issue, peaks at 400~ in a MOed lucky hand of god, Brahman seems ok for cheesing kurast 3000 I guess but I dont really see the general application beyond that and then I've tried some various proc crafts...
Now with the base items part of the documentation updated so I dont have to guess what WSM mod my weapons are supposed to have I'll probably try to craft a holy lance and see if general gameplay improves.
The supposed single target skill (oh boy 2/5 wdm and no scaling damage tied to skill level or anything of the sort with some sort of ND attached to it, I'm sure that someone with actual details can elaborate on that part) feels like it's outperformed by either retaling or if in some cases kiting with normal attack+whirlpool poison application which is absurd at any rate.
tl;dr - someone else try divine judgment and tell me if it's supposed to be used ever because even with the supposed >Fixed an issue with Divine Judgement damage delivery it still feels overwhelmingly weak.
edit: https://u.nya.is/nhbowi.webm made a quick show of what I'm using, the kiting set of ssu throwing/snake stance shield and the other boots with whirlpool for when it's needed
Artagel wrote: it felt more or less impossible to get ok animations even with the holy morph and now with the base items page actually updated I can see why - fucking *40* WSM on hand of god which with the speedcalc shows a progression of 10fpa as the highest realistic attack progression (142 effective as, next breakpoint is 223 and if we want to be full memesters one could get 8fpa for a mere investment of *414* attack speed)
Lel wow I totally missed that. Didn't realize they were updated and haven't used a hand of god this patch. Well, calypso is still usable but needs 5-6x 15 IAS crafted jewels to make it and more or less specific item combination. Plus you're forced encouraged to use a Nih'd A5 merc for 10 skill IAS from MotW.
With the following gear:
+4 amu
+2
Dragonheart
Dragonheart
Body Armors
'OhmThulFal'
Runeword Level: 70
+2 to All Skills
30% Attack Speed
30% Cast Speed
30% Block Speed
45% Hit Recovery
+1.625% Enhanced Defense (Based on Character Level)
5% to Dexterity
+(550 to 650) to Life
Cold Resist +25%
Body Armors
'OhmThulFal'
Runeword Level: 70
+2 to All Skills
30% Attack Speed
30% Cast Speed
30% Block Speed
45% Hit Recovery
+1.625% Enhanced Defense (Based on Character Level)
5% to Dexterity
+(550 to 650) to Life
Cold Resist +25%
+3 class charm
+2 prism
= +11 skills
With 10 hardpoints in Rapture +11 skills (goodbye build diversity)...
+35 skill IAS from Rapture
+10 skill IAS from A5 merc MotW
= +45 skill IAS
That puts you at 152 IAS to cap on a hand of god.
+20 from prism
+30 base from
Calypso
+30
Featherclaw
+50
Dragonheart
Dragonheart
Body Armors
'OhmThulFal'
Runeword Level: 70
+2 to All Skills
30% Attack Speed
30% Cast Speed
30% Block Speed
45% Hit Recovery
+1.625% Enhanced Defense (Based on Character Level)
5% to Dexterity
+(550 to 650) to Life
Cold Resist +25%
Body Armors
'OhmThulFal'
Runeword Level: 70
+2 to All Skills
30% Attack Speed
30% Cast Speed
30% Block Speed
45% Hit Recovery
+1.625% Enhanced Defense (Based on Character Level)
5% to Dexterity
+(550 to 650) to Life
Cold Resist +25%
= +130 IAS
Without merc's MotW you need 215 IAS to cap which would require 6x 15 IAS jewels. You still want it anyway against neon fiend slow.
If you put something like 5 points into Rapture it obviously becomes even worse.
As for OP, when you craft your jewels look for 2% life leech (base) + flat life + IAS first and foremost (you're going to need lots of IAS when you transition into end game gear). You also want FCR to reach 7 frame cast speed. Keep in mind skill FCR doesn't exist.
Before incarnation was added you were forced to craft jewels with +%AR, now you're basically forced to get +IAS. Also non-incarnation specs are going to be shit (unless you're chuck and get 100k AR with full str characters) without extreme jewelcrafting. So goodbye build diversity there as well.
Artagel wrote:can a melee paladin actually get viable defense of some sort to 'protect' weak animations such as these? Not really, a 980% dragonheart gets me to 300k~ and the only good source of defense left is basically a Kra RW instead of the holy melee set armor but well.
The defense of untwinked holy pala comes from...
- hand of god aoe damage with tons of leech
- 50% DR and workable defense
- flat life from jewels, amu (harder now), dragonheart or craft, +destro shaman reani (harder now)
- procs like miasma, unseenlie curse (harder now), glacial nova, sor, spike nova
If those are in check you don't go into FHR often/get instagibbed due to high effective life and as long as you keep swinging with leechable targets in your retaliate radius you're immortal.
Artagel wrote:This forced me in smaxing demiurge so I would have a power spike in order to establish a presence in a room
If you want shadow path your best bet is probably 1hander with
Hierodule
. Getting 5 FPA instead of 7 somewhat negates the damage difference and enables picking resurrect. You're still going to need to stack tons of IAS though.Hierodule
Paladin Helms
'ThalArc'
Runeword Level: 100
+3 to Paladin Skill Levels
+5% Bonus to Spell Focus
60% Cast Speed
+(34 to 49)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
+15% to Lightning Spell Damage
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
Paladin Helms
'ThalArc'
Runeword Level: 100
+3 to Paladin Skill Levels
+5% Bonus to Spell Focus
60% Cast Speed
+(34 to 49)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
+15% to Lightning Spell Damage
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
Edited by cowking 8 years.
thank you guys
nobody talks about this spec
nobody talks about this spec
cowking wrote:The defense of untwinked holy pala comes from...
- hand of god aoe damage with tons of leech
- 50% DR and workable defense
- flat life from jewels, amu (harder now), dragonheart or craft, +destro shaman reani (harder now)
- procs like miasma, unseenlie curse (harder now), glacial nova, sor, spike nova
Oh yeah but that brings me back to the entire problem, it is much easier to protect a 5-6fpa attack instead of racing generic melee monster animations with 8-10fpa and hoping that your 14-25% cth keeps you from being hitstunned - I do agree with your general statement that procs probably keep you alive better than most other things together with flat life on jewels. I could theoretically go back to my Yul helmet but I think headbanger has really good potential with the entire thunderslam on struck thing going on.
I'm not really certain of the general intention with the speed revamp, it's one thing to expect people to invest in AS (I think feeling motivated to make 10-15% AS Ber jewels for every slot that can take it is about as deep of an investment as a designer can hope for) but currently you just end up with a frustrating "hope I kill stuff fast enough so that reanimates can take the heat off my frail character".
It is also absurd that the 2set bonus of cinadide locks out the solar flare/incarnation interaction entirely when that passive more or less makes the class something close to playable :l
cowking wrote:If you want shadow path your best bet is probably 1hander withHierodule. Getting 5 FPA instead of 7 somewhat negates the damage difference and enables picking resurrect. You're still going to need to stack tons of IAS though.Hierodule
Paladin Helms
'ThalArc'
Runeword Level: 100
+3 to Paladin Skill Levels
+5% Bonus to Spell Focus
60% Cast Speed
+(34 to 49)% to Physical/Magic Spell Damage
+15% to Lightning Spell Damage
Maximum Elemental Resists +2%
I guess it should be mentioned that there isn't so much me *wanting* shadow path as the fact that the light vessel doesn't have uptime with me having to run around that much and without demiurge I'll lose my initial burst of killdudes - shadow vessel has a much better passive for holy as well, amount of targets at that distance is useless when you aren't tanky enough to just stay in.
If paladin 1hers are to be used which are 10 WSM after glorious leaders revamp then 5 FPA is actually 259 IAS for 1h swing (as sorc), I'm not really seeing that as a realistic option and as you said earlier, the leech from a 2her is what keeps you alive; 6fpa is however realistic. I could try a bit more with ssu war hammer which is also 10 WSM (spike nova on melee attack and ok damage)
Either way, I cant really say that everything is guaranteed to turn easier once you get your stuff together OP - nihlatak runs are surprisingly deadly as it is and we dont get scaling damage anywhere from soft points (except plague but if we are to stay alive through leeching then plague wont really get to tick that much - retals 4% of base str with 1/2 wdm is laughably low and isn't even worth considering tbh) in order to improve our damage while actually fighting dudes and I think our single target skill is a hot pile of steaming garbage so there's that. The redeeming part is fighting dudes with the injection of stats from demiurge but that locks out teleport/colosseum
So
What kind of shrine do you use on what type of gear pieces
Weird for phys on the paladin spear?
Creepy on hand of god craft?? Why put str on a weapon, dont we want sick enhanced?
dont i mostly want Vit crafts to actually get health on gear since i have none?
What kind of shrine do you use on what type of gear pieces
Weird for phys on the paladin spear?
Creepy on hand of god craft?? Why put str on a weapon, dont we want sick enhanced?
dont i mostly want Vit crafts to actually get health on gear since i have none?