A comparison of how builds function in Median XL from 1-130

God, how many times have you mentioned blood relic, seems like every other topic?

I think devs got it already.

Jampula wrote:God, how many times have you mentioned blood relic, seems like every other topic?
I think devs got it already.

God, how many more seasons will it take to get those bugs on these unbalanced blood relics fixed? lol. But one thing for sure, ama blood relic was released with bug since last patch, and the bug is not fixed until now which is end of 2.5 patch. So that means it has already been 2 seasons long, and it is still not fixed.

And I dont think ama blood relic is fixed in 2.6 beta until now. Maybe they r working on it now? I hope so.

cnlnjzfjb wrote:1. Blood relics are not as rare as u thought or stated above this ladder, Im sure. Me, myself, did like 20-30 Darkness of Heart runs this ladder. Quite a few players around me farmed it this ladder, with bear, melee sorc, xbow and azure pal....Yes, they not only did or passed, they actually farmed it! One of them even did it like 90+ times this ladder. And It is quite easy to get an ama blood relic from market. I can tell that u r not familiar with recent sc trade market from ur words, maybe u r not playing recent patches much. In fact, ama blood relic is not that expensive on market, which means it is not that rare as u stated. U want to know how many ppl can actually have this relic? Just wait for the season data coming out, I can only say for sure, more than u stated or thought.

2. Despite the rarity, it is not as hard as u thought to get an ama blood relic. Since it is not very expensive on market. U can easily get 1 if u want this ladder, without paying too much.

3. Ur point makes some sense, but not much. Nerfed/fixed or not, it does not depend or only depend on the rarity. If it actually breaks the balance much or bugged heavily, then it should be nerfed or fixed. How many ppl can have azure? According to ur point, not too many (In fact, I think azures are too many drops nowadays in ladder and should be nerfed with drop rate. U can easily buy one for 200-300tg in late ladder, lol). But azure itself and azure bds have already been reworked/nerfed many times although azure is rare; How many ppl can have tyrael? But that does not contradict with wyrd sorc being op and nerfed and tyrael nerfed next patch; How many ppl can afford 6 Gorefest relics in old versions to make their bear reaching 3 fpa attack speed or even 2 fpa? Very few, yes. But still that does not contradict with old bear being op with possible super fast attack speed and then the mechanism of bear/wolf reworked to limit their attack speed to 6/5 fpa. It does not get away with being reworked just because, as u said, only very few ppl could afford 4-6 Gorefest relics in old versions.

Yeah this is faaar too endgame-y for me, I didn't realize how many of those were out there. I just looked up the recipe, seemed very difficult and time consuming to acquire, so I assumed the relic is not very common. Guess I underestimated how dedicated some people are.

For reference I play ssf single player w/ save wipes every patch, so my view is skewed towards that. I played on TSW for like 3 seasons in a row but never traded and played solo anyway, the trading market is a foreign entity to me. Still, on principle I'd say that balancing a class around an item isn't a great idea, balance the item instead imo. So the way I see it, it's more of a case that "blood relic is op", not "blood ama is op". So kinda like what you talk about in point #3

cnlnjzfjb wrote:And unfortunately, they still have no plan to buff UMP or the whole pally class in 2.6 patch. Devs keep focusing on ama class in 2.6 after javazon/stormzon/bloodzon/bowzon got reworked.

Well, not all games need to - or should - be balanced.

When it comes to PAL all I’d really like to see is some major QoL changes. Many of these buffs need to be made passives or toggles. Right now you have a class that both underperforms AND is a pain in the ass to play. I can deal with one of those, but both is too much.

Frytas wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:1. Blood relics are not as rare as u thought or stated above this ladder, Im sure. Me, myself, did like 20-30 Darkness of Heart runs this ladder. Quite a few players around me farmed it this ladder, with bear, melee sorc, xbow and azure pal....Yes, they not only did or passed, they actually farmed it! One of them even did it like 90+ times this ladder. And It is quite easy to get an ama blood relic from market. I can tell that u r not familiar with recent sc trade market from ur words, maybe u r not playing recent patches much. In fact, ama blood relic is not that expensive on market, which means it is not that rare as u stated. U want to know how many ppl can actually have this relic? Just wait for the season data coming out, I can only say for sure, more than u stated or thought.

2. Despite the rarity, it is not as hard as u thought to get an ama blood relic. Since it is not very expensive on market. U can easily get 1 if u want this ladder, without paying too much.

3. Ur point makes some sense, but not much. Nerfed/fixed or not, it does not depend or only depend on the rarity. If it actually breaks the balance much or bugged heavily, then it should be nerfed or fixed. How many ppl can have azure? According to ur point, not too many (In fact, I think azures are too many drops nowadays in ladder and should be nerfed with drop rate. U can easily buy one for 200-300tg in late ladder, lol). But azure itself and azure bds have already been reworked/nerfed many times although azure is rare; How many ppl can have tyrael? But that does not contradict with wyrd sorc being op and nerfed and tyrael nerfed next patch; How many ppl can afford 6 Gorefest relics in old versions to make their bear reaching 3 fpa attack speed or even 2 fpa? Very few, yes. But still that does not contradict with old bear being op with possible super fast attack speed and then the mechanism of bear/wolf reworked to limit their attack speed to 6/5 fpa. It does not get away with being reworked just because, as u said, only very few ppl could afford 4-6 Gorefest relics in old versions.

Yeah this is faaar too endgame-y for me, I didn't realize how many of those were out there. I just looked up the recipe, seemed very difficult and time consuming to acquire, so I assumed the relic is not very common. Guess I underestimated how dedicated some people are.

For reference I play ssf single player w/ save wipes every patch, so my view is skewed towards that. I played on TSW for like 3 seasons in a row but never traded and played solo anyway, the trading market is a foreign entity to me. Still, on principle I'd say that balancing a class around an item isn't a great idea, balance the item instead imo. So the way I see it, it's more of a case that "blood relic is op", not "blood ama is op". So kinda like what you talk about in point #3

Yeah, very true. blood relic for ama is op (not only for bloodzon), not blood ama is too op. I never said bloodzon was too op (In fact, bloodzon is underestimated by most ppl, even without blood relic, bloodzon is strong in late/end game). I never said balancing a class around an item, it is just that there is a heavy bug on ama blood relic, making it more op. And I think this bug should not be kept into 2.6 patch since it has already been there for 2 seasons, which is 8 months.

And it is even not about or less about being op, it is just about bug. It is just there is a heavy bug, and I guess any heavy bug should be fixed. Even the SoV bug on blood relic fixed, bloodzon with no-bugged blood relic still stays op, for blood relic itself is too good for bloodzon. But I dont care. I just found a heavy bug which broke the balance, I thought it should be fixed, so reported it, shared it, that is all.

bohoTV wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:And unfortunately, they still have no plan to buff UMP or the whole pally class in 2.6 patch. Devs keep focusing on ama class in 2.6 after javazon/stormzon/bloodzon/bowzon got reworked.

Well, not all games need to - or should - be balanced.

When it comes to PAL all I’d really like to see is some major QoL changes. Many of these buffs need to be made passives or toggles. Right now you have a class that both underperforms AND is a pain in the ass to play. I can deal with one of those, but both is too much.

I agree. And I do hope so, that will make it less piano. I also can accept either less piano but low dmg or piano but high dmg, at least better than both piano and low dmg. When it comes to pal, it is both a bit piano, not much I have to say, and underperforming now, as u said.

But it seems not that simple. Cause if they are gonna make one class or build less piano, meanwhile, I guess they are more likely to nerf its dmg or survivability instead for balance. Less piano but no nerf or little nerf in dmg/survivability is what ppl need and surely welcomed, but I dont think it will go like that, esp for pal. And I hope Im wrong about that. So QoL changes to a class/bd is still about "balance", just in another sense.

QoL changes are always welcomed and appreciated, very true. I always appreciated every patch's QoL work.