Thunderzon in new patch

[noal]

I see. How about rolling a whirpool boots and/or some other oskill attacks from gears? Also he can consider replacing TU chainmail with TU splint mail, the proc is a bit worse but it helps clearing left-over and has better dmg/def/dr.

[iwansquall]

I also playing similar build atm, using TU chain mail.

problem is that proc is kinda too low % to maximize use of magnetic field.
TU cenveliere... with venomous proc seem kinda ok.


As for whirlpool, why we are playing a melee build in first place if we have to resort to oskill.


*Currently i trying to that habagami quiver and test if proc is rapid enough with magnetic field. Webspinner seem spam alot of miasma proc with magnetic field + weapon switching, but dps wise still very low compared to 1pt hammer of zerae.

[archon256]

My goal was to see if the wdm build was any more fun to level than before. And it is, but it still isn't enough, IMO. I'm sure with enough investment I can make it work, but it is too much for me to enjoy it. I went with TU Chainmail because I wanted to try and use Magnetic Field while leveling as iwansquall says, but the effect wasn't noticeable.

If you consider other characters that I actually like to play you have Barb who gets magic damage and %phys from lion stance, or poison damage from Snake Stance and %phys from Spirit Guide etc. or sin who gets fire damage from WotP and poison from WotS, or UMP who has two melee spells that do different types of ele damage as well as VoR/VoJ for phys damage, etc. All of these classes also have good itemization in TUs and RWs. When I play them I just need to farm a decent TU body armor and maybe a TU weapon, for every other item slot I can just use low-level RWs or honorifics.

[cowking]

How about death blossom/black lotus strike until L90 when you get curare?

You could even combine that with a rare scepter that has ctc balefire.

[archon256]

Sure, but

As for whirlpool, why we are playing a melee build in first place if we have to resort to oskill.

[cowking]

Well obviously you only have to resort to it until you reach L90 or so.

Also, have you tried using A3 bloodmage? He would heal you and handle immunities, although dying would become expensive.

[Marco]

@archon: it kind of surprises me from someone like you to base your posts mostly on the "not fun" arguments. Fun is subjective. Batstrike assassin is a pain in the ass to play, some people say the same about dragon paladin or storm amazon. Well those are the builds that I, for exapmle, enjoy the most. Other people prefer brainless builds like pouncezon, elemental druid, etc. I don't blame them, everyone enjoys the mod in their own way.


Although you don't seem to do it on purpose, your posts seem to describe stormzon as a rather balanced / playable build. You say stormcall is stupidly overpowered, yet you're having huge issues with immunes. Well duh, that's the point. There are builds that require you to figure nothing out, you just pump more attack and defense. But there are builds like these which have innately much damage, so the space you would use in your gear to get damage, you use it to get a source to kill immunes. With dragondin there's a similar thing, dragon breath does sick damage and actually freezes monsters (not many skills do it) - but it has the requisite of casting solar flare and figuring out how not to run out of mana.

I just don't know why would you pick a build that is not straight forward to play if you only like straight forward builds.

[archon256]

Well obviously you only have to resort to it until you reach L90 or so.

Also, have you tried using A3 bloodmage? He would heal you and handle immunities, although dying would become expensive.

That still sounds like a build that needs changes/buffs pre-L90, IMO.

@archon: it kind of surprises me from someone like you to base your posts mostly on the "not fun" arguments. Fun is subjective.

I know, that's why I clarified why it isn't fun for me. And that part is objective. This is a build that performs poorly unless you invest very heavily into +damage on gear, or if you get oskills. Part of that is because the game lacks itemization for non-caster Stormzon.

Although you don't seem to do it on purpose, your posts seem to describe stormzon as a rather balanced / playable build. You say stormcall is stupidly overpowered, yet you're having huge issues with immunes. Well duh, that's the point.

Like I already said, I'm not saying I want Stormcall to kill immunes easily too. That would make it even more overpowered. In fact I would prefer if it didn't do any physical damage at all, just more lightning. My problem is that when I'm playing some other caster there is always some way for the player to deal damage in alternate element, without having to use oskill, and by switching between the two skills you can continue clearing at the same pace. Stormzon has no such option. I get that you've done so by design, but that makes me not want to play Stormcall.

That's why I tried playing WDM this time, and ran into same problem even though I got a lot of +cold damage on my gear and tried to get as much %phys damage as I could on a decent RW (Enyo is level 31 "Dol", and that's a high drop for my level). It let me get a lot farther than I could last time (where I gave up in A3 Hatred), so that's good at least. Since I haven't given feedback for this build for this patch I thought I should post.

I just don't know why would you pick a build that is not straight forward to play if you only like straight forward builds.

There's different types of straight-forward-ness. You can have complex gameplay and simple gearing, which I like. I think almost every non-oskill build in MXL falls into "simple to gear" category, so when I see one that doesn't fit it I feel there is something wrong with it.

I've played complex-to-gear builds too, but they've never been the only choice for that tree. It usually involves ignoring some skill of that tree and using an oskill instead, and then using the points you saved to boost other skills/passives. But since beginner players can just use the skill in the tree and play the game I don't find such trees broken in the same way Stormzon feels to me.

Edit:
OK, let me put it another way. Let's ignore Stormcall for now, this is only about the WDM skills.
If you look at how much gear the various builds in MXL need, on one extreme you have something silly like Totem nec which really needs practically nothing to level with. In between you have the builds I mentioned which need 1 or 2 TUs of investment, but otherwise can really do fine with just random RWs you make as you level. Then you have Stormzon who behaves like that except for one class of monster (lightning immune) and if you want to get past that speedbump you need to invest a lot. If you feel that's fine and intended, then okay, I can't convince you otherwise. But I think it requires too much investment, and that makes me not want to play it.

[iwansquall]

I think we can narrow down the problem to lack of damage passives at low level for stormzon or %ED / %EWD.

Despite other devotion in zon are kinda similar, but storm tree alone are lacking of any base %EWD (or at least damage bonus to scepter) .
So this kinda made that storm-zon should be treated as class with flat elemental damage instead (i tried estatic frenzy but getting much worst recovery / block locked)
This lead to other damage source which only unlock at level 90 (curare and war spirit, & sov if want to count her aura)

She have free lightning pierce, but value is still lower than most of other class (summon djinn, euphoria) *add more if I missed anything else
Yes the passive is decent, but the synergies is way too weak IMO compared most of other passives.


I think she is fine as a caster because of stormcall is such as powerful spell with dual dmg.
Hammer of zerae is good level that thundercrack and magnetic field have to reach for low level.
Because it have 3/2 and godly amount of lightning damage. Not to mention multihit at each spot if it hit enemies

Thundercrack might need more dmg synergies, but less missiles (powerful at early, less snowballing)
Im playing at players 1 and I struggling to kill monster either with %ED scepter or %CB honorific scepter
If it really doesnt trigger on attack proc, it seem worst than other melee skill

As for magnetic field, I just dislike the super-low tick dmg and "casting at feet" mechanic.
I dunno how many hits the spell do at high level, but definitely way behind multi-hitter ranged class like wychwind throwsin.
Im experimenting with weapon switching at the moment, but it is really not worth the effort (compared to spamming HoZ and shift moving)

If you want some suggestion, here is mine:
1. Keep storm zon as melee with flat lightning elemental damage but with high bonus damage but weak weapon (scepter)
2. More synergies based of hard point DEX and ENERGY like holy melee / barb tree, sorc passive or sin's laserblade
3. Or hard point into passive boost lightning damage bonus greatly (like malice necro), this one Im taking of non-devotion amazon perspective
4. Just open up weapon requirement for storm-zon tree, mechanic, she not much better than other zon tree. Not to mention zon have slow animation list compared to other class (only good at 1hand swing casting atm)

*Batstrike is tricky, but she is powerful with good passive, not to mention she can goes various tree for utility.
Old dragonpally is still fun (I havent tried new one) except for mana problem despite spend all to energy)
Heck even bow sorc sound easier with variety of choice : http://www.medianxl.com/t1339-shiva-the-bow-sorc

**I tried so many masoschist build in the past. Usually you are not limited by tree design or itemization, so you can go creative way to solve the problem (unlike stormzon). Charmer druid, mine + starburst sin, poison flasher druid (and probably couple more).


***I still leveling up this WDM storm-zon (caster is fine despite lightning immune, players 1), hopefully thins become better. But atm, even with players1 setting, WDM playstyle really need a lot of help (except of hammer of zerae which is powerful)


EDITED:

1. Right now, my thundercrack deal almost same damage magnetic field per tick but both is kinda like only 1/10 of hammer of zerae. I can 1 shot normal mobs in terror easily but other two skill barely deal 1/5 of mobs hp. I maxed all 3 skill, so damage is purely different by skill mechanic (saying adding more dmg wont work here since hammer deal more dmg with 3/2). Really need to check if thundercrack and magnetic field is designed to be that weak at low level.

2. About my suggestion above, I didnt realized hammer of zerae have this energy factor bonus like a spell (instead of WDM based skill like most other skill, similar one is in throwsin). So hammer is good, but not for other 2

3. I still dunno if thundercrack can multiple hit (like maybe at least missiles count x 1/1 dmg) but because lack of dmg (above no 1 reason), it still feel very dangerous to go melee since my dps is low (hammer of zerae seem still deal decent damage). I will try test more with more damage source from other slot.

[Fumbles]

Can you post your current gear/skill setup and char level?