The TLDR 2H Barb

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cnlnjzfjb
Horadric Mage
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MUS01 wrote:
Bliyadolubov wrote:Barb earthquake set seems to be sexe, with fast atack speed weapon base it procs SOR often


The problem is that earthquake damage is pretty shit (70%). With IAS aftershock almost never procs (I play and everytime I attack the previous aftershock is cancelled if I'm doing a new attack), the aftershock is pretty slow... and the main thing are bosses.... yeah, they have ctc teleport (activaded by SOR) so bossing is a pain... I only see as a possible solution remove the CD on SOR or raise the chance of tectonics at least at 30%.

Edit: having a cd attack (SOR) in a fast attack character is pretty dumb.

Earthquake dmg is OK, just not excellent. 70%+140%=210% wdm. Yeah there is a delay between 1st and 2nd shock wave. OK, let's give it a discount, 170%-180% wdm. Still much better than 133% wdm retaliate from holy melee pal. If earthquake dmg is shit, then retaliate should be thrown into bin. If u ever tried holy melee pal with retaliate to level up from lvl 120 to 135/140, Im sure u will realize what is real bad and miss earthquake.


But I do agree Earthshaker deserves some buffs. 0 CD on SOR will be too much, it is not realistic, or devs will nerf SOR's dmg hard to balance if 0 CD. 30% to proc seems fair and cool.
BoneZone
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Get rid of the sounds on earthquake and wyrd. Hearing explosions and shing shing shing all the time is annoying.
BearBearderBarb
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Actually no, add War Cry sound to them instead.
MUS01
Cog
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cnlnjzfjb wrote:
MUS01 wrote:
Bliyadolubov wrote:Barb earthquake set seems to be sexe, with fast atack speed weapon base it procs SOR often


The problem is that earthquake damage is pretty shit (70%). With IAS aftershock almost never procs (I play and everytime I attack the previous aftershock is cancelled if I'm doing a new attack), the aftershock is pretty slow... and the main thing are bosses.... yeah, they have ctc teleport (activaded by SOR) so bossing is a pain... I only see as a possible solution remove the CD on SOR or raise the chance of tectonics at least at 30%.

Edit: having a cd attack (SOR) in a fast attack character is pretty dumb.

Earthquake dmg is OK, just not excellent. 70%+140%=210% wdm. Yeah there is a delay between 1st and 2nd shock wave. OK, let's give it a discount, 170%-180% wdm. Still much better than 133% wdm retaliate from holy melee pal. If earthquake dmg is shit, then retaliate should be thrown into bin. If u ever tried holy melee pal with retaliate to level up from lvl 120 to 135/140, Im sure u will realize what is real bad and miss earthquake.


But I do agree Earthshaker deserves some buffs. 0 CD on SOR will be too much, it is not realistic, or devs will nerf SOR's dmg hard to balance if 0 CD. 30% to proc seems fair and cool.


Well I actually can't use the aftershock 90% of the time. You know, Wolf Stance gives so much IAS that you actually do 3-4 earthquakes before 1 aftershock hits... I almost don't see any aftershock cause it seems that new earthquakes removes the old aftershock.... pretty bad in my opinion.... the speed of the shock should be also raised... and yeah, tectonics actually would matter with 30% chance. Actual chace is so mehhhh.... Like I say, bossing is terrible with earthquake, BUT you must use the skill in CD of SOR...

In the comparison with paladin, I also leveled a paladin... and he was faster than my barb. The reason with 3 earthake in the same time you can 3 retaliate... 133 x 3 is bigger than 70 x 3. Yeah, the aftershock would incline the balance, but the monsters die before, I mean, 3 earthquake and 3 aftershocks would take the same time of 5 retaliates.... the dps is pretty diferent....
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cnlnjzfjb
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MUS01 wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:
MUS01 wrote:
Bliyadolubov wrote:Barb earthquake set seems to be sexe, with fast atack speed weapon base it procs SOR often


The problem is that earthquake damage is pretty shit (70%). With IAS aftershock almost never procs (I play and everytime I attack the previous aftershock is cancelled if I'm doing a new attack), the aftershock is pretty slow... and the main thing are bosses.... yeah, they have ctc teleport (activaded by SOR) so bossing is a pain... I only see as a possible solution remove the CD on SOR or raise the chance of tectonics at least at 30%.

Edit: having a cd attack (SOR) in a fast attack character is pretty dumb.

Earthquake dmg is OK, just not excellent. 70%+140%=210% wdm. Yeah there is a delay between 1st and 2nd shock wave. OK, let's give it a discount, 170%-180% wdm. Still much better than 133% wdm retaliate from holy melee pal. If earthquake dmg is shit, then retaliate should be thrown into bin. If u ever tried holy melee pal with retaliate to level up from lvl 120 to 135/140, Im sure u will realize what is real bad and miss earthquake.


But I do agree Earthshaker deserves some buffs. 0 CD on SOR will be too much, it is not realistic, or devs will nerf SOR's dmg hard to balance if 0 CD. 30% to proc seems fair and cool.


Well I actually can't use the aftershock 90% of the time. You know, Wolf Stance gives so much IAS that you actually do 3-4 earthquakes before 1 aftershock hits... I almost don't see any aftershock cause it seems that new earthquakes removes the old aftershock.... pretty bad in my opinion.... the speed of the shock should be also raised... and yeah, tectonics actually would matter with 30% chance. Actual chace is so mehhhh.... Like I say, bossing is terrible with earthquake, BUT you must use the skill in CD of SOR...

In the comparison with paladin, I also leveled a paladin... and he was faster than my barb. The reason with 3 earthake in the same time you can 3 retaliate... 133 x 3 is bigger than 70 x 3. Yeah, the aftershock would incline the balance, but the monsters die before, I mean, 3 earthquake and 3 aftershocks would take the same time of 5 retaliates.... the dps is pretty diferent....

I get ur point. My opinion is like, lvl 1-100 or lvl 1-120 is just whatever. One can play like whatever or however he wants to pass this stage, very quickly, if he is not a newbie. Maybe u dont need the 2nd shock during the pass to hell, mobs died after 3 first shocks, but it does not matter much. It is just a very short period of time. Lvl 120-140 is what takes more time. This is the stage that really tests a build's strength/levelling speed as a season starter.


So, first, the 2nd wave is always there. Second, I dont think u can 3-shot mobs to death with earthquake 1st shocks or retaliate in Fauz/Scos during ur levelling stage after lvl 120 toward lvl 140 since u dont have good gear or polished charms during this time. And my exp tells me that the 2nd shock wave is useful to clear the mobs even though it comes after 3 first shock waves during this stage. And as a comparison, holy melee pal struggles more than earthshaker in Dunc/Fauz/Scos stage which is approximately lvl 120-140 period.

And, more important, earthshaker can farm Scos with earthquake while HMP barely not with retaliate, thanks to the 2nd 140% shock. Ofc, u can push HMP to farm Scos with retaliate, but it just turns out slow and pain.

Finally, imagine earthquake is reworked to be only 1 shock with 133% wdm as what retaliate is now, then I would say earthshaker this build is dead.
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aerial
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You could make an argument that vs weaker targets, where moving and attacking quickly is sufficient, then speed still have decent synergy with earthquake. And it falls off once you stay stationary and attempt to spam it (then you lose shockwaves and your combined dps goes down).
I'd say main issue of the build is scaling of single target ability - sor. It has negative synergy against fast moving/teleporting enemies, being slightly delayed and requiring the target to sit inside the aoe in order to receive full damage.
Then mix in the cooldown, which pormotes really annoying gameplay of spamming other attack in between SOR. And the shorter sor cooldown is, the less efficient your filler attacks are going to be, you will miss frames. That and fact such gameplay is just annoying.

I'd say two routes would attempt to solve these issues:
- make SOR spammable, nerf it accordingly, but also set final power of it higher than current in the endgame, so it is more capable
- increase the cooldown of SOR, again increase its power accordingly, this gives time to more comfortably spam earthquake in between SOR usage, every 4-5s for example.

2nd solution however poses problem that was mentioned before, continous spam of earthquake against beefy target is largely diminished due to overlapping aftershocks.

Bottom line is, build would benefit from more single target potential, and less annoying gameplay in form of juggling 2s cooldown main skill.
Also looking back at the old iteration of build, way back to Ultimative days, it was more interesting, more skills were involved, Fortress was viable part of the build, added flexibility. It would be nice if these variants still had place in the game, and build gameplay would provide more variety and skills, rather than just spamming 1 or at most 2 abilities.
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cnlnjzfjb
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I would say:
1. 180% wdm on earthquake with no aftershock.
2. Design/Give a new skill for single target to replace SOR.
I dont think that would be much work for devs.
MUS01
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cnlnjzfjb wrote:I would say:
1. 180% wdm on earthquake with no aftershock.
2. Design/Give a new skill for single target to replace SOR.
I dont think that would be much work for devs.

X2.
MUS01
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aerial wrote:You could make an argument that vs weaker targets, where moving and attacking quickly is sufficient, then speed still have decent synergy with earthquake. And it falls off once you stay stationary and attempt to spam it (then you lose shockwaves and your combined dps goes down).
I'd say main issue of the build is scaling of single target ability - sor. It has negative synergy against fast moving/teleporting enemies, being slightly delayed and requiring the target to sit inside the aoe in order to receive full damage.
Then mix in the cooldown, which pormotes really annoying gameplay of spamming other attack in between SOR. And the shorter sor cooldown is, the less efficient your filler attacks are going to be, you will miss frames. That and fact such gameplay is just annoying.

I'd say two routes would attempt to solve these issues:
- make SOR spammable, nerf it accordingly, but also set final power of it higher than current in the endgame, so it is more capable
- increase the cooldown of SOR, again increase its power accordingly, this gives time to more comfortably spam earthquake in between SOR usage, every 4-5s for example.


2nd solution however poses problem that was mentioned before, continous spam of earthquake against beefy target is largely diminished due to overlapping aftershocks.

Bottom line is, build would benefit from more single target potential, and less annoying gameplay in form of juggling 2s cooldown main skill.
Also looking back at the old iteration of build, way back to Ultimative days, it was more interesting, more skills were involved, Fortress was viable part of the build, added flexibility. It would be nice if these variants still had place in the game, and build gameplay would provide more variety and skills, rather than just spamming 1 or at most 2 abilities.


Pretty good ideas... second solution has the added problem of teleporting bosses... or coward mobs (monsters running or moving away...almost every uber boss lol)... I really hate hunt goblins, lol.... but yeah, actual earthshaker needs a little rework in the actual SOR. It doesn't sinergize with wolf stance high IAS.
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Jampula
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aerial wrote:It would be nice if these variants still had place in the game, and build gameplay would provide more variety and skills, rather than just spamming 1 or at most 2 abilities.

That's Median in a nutshell nowadays. And pretty much every ARPG.

I think it's much more interesting when nearly every skill has some cd, of course you need some spamming skill but the beauty of cd-skill is the power and you actually have to think when to use them.