Poison Whirlwind Barb; A Comprehensive Guide

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magz_
Cultist
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Created a complete character guide
Muilpeer wrote:
magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
I'm actually thinking thundergod might harm the build because it stuns and thus keeps enemies from getting to you. And enemies getting to you is the only way you can kill them with WW, I guess it's better if the clump up around you instead o thinned out over the screen right?

For notarmoury you need to log in with your Sin Wars login credentials, so it's only accessible for players that play on the realm :) It's not the forum login.

Also, do you think Shael runes might be good to use until the gear can be filled with Poison runes? Or does that not make sense?
Or Maybe Ith runes for 3% poison spell dmg?


Monsters being stunned isn't a huge deal, but it might harm your speed a bit. I believe it's a very short stun, and they continue running at you afterwards. Monsters being spread out hurts your sustain more than it hurts your clear IMO but I didn't notice much of a difference. I think it only goes off every 16 seconds?

Your gear looks good. Pretty close to my setup. Consider putting 2x raptors on switch. Someone else suggested it in here and I think it's stronger? i'll try it tonight myself and see what happens.


Raptor



Raptor
Throwing Axes

'ZodSurLemEl'
Runeword Level: 85
(Barbarian Only)
Indestructible
3% Chance to cast level 60 Thunder Slam on Kill
-19% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(6 to 11) to Snake Stance (Barbarian Only)
+3 to all Attributes
5% to Vitality
Maximum Life +3%
Regenerate Mana +15%
+100 Life after each Kill
Looks interesting, but I'm using
Qarak's Will
Qarak's Will
Giant Sword (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (150 - 163) to (233 - 246)
Two-Hand Damage: (206 - 225) to (285 - 305)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 480
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 34 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
6% Chance to cast level 40 Pentagram on Melee Attack
10% Chance to cast level 36 Bloodlust on Kill
+(30 to 60)% Bonus Damage to Bloodlust
Adds 50-125 Damage
Adds 84-167 Fire Damage
+(26 to 38)% to Fire Spell Damage
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Damage
+(100 to 250) Life after each Kill
5% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)
for the bloodlust proc right now, thinking that will add a good amount of dmg. I'm curious about your findings.

I'm also wondering if it's not better to add Ith runes instead of Venomous runes because I have already gone over -135% enemy poison resistance. From what I heard from someone else that's the minimum amount you need for farming. And -199 for bosses. So I guess for the content I'm doing right now -135 should be enough? Or is more always better?


loosely quoting Siosilvar here but you're correct. Supposedly enemies can have up to -100% res, so if you aren't bossing you don't need it to be that high because the enemies seem to only have 35% resistances, hence the quoted 135%. If that's the case Slot Iths :)
You can always use an oil to remove your runes and swap to poison for dedicated bossing.
HOWEVER, at 140-190k poison damage, I'm still doing tons of damage for farming purposes, so laziness will probably just keep me in a -res setup. When I do bump into bosses like Darkstar, Alpha-Gamma, etc I want that -res up.
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Muilpeer
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magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
I'm actually thinking thundergod might harm the build because it stuns and thus keeps enemies from getting to you. And enemies getting to you is the only way you can kill them with WW, I guess it's better if the clump up around you instead o thinned out over the screen right?

For notarmoury you need to log in with your Sin Wars login credentials, so it's only accessible for players that play on the realm :) It's not the forum login.

Also, do you think Shael runes might be good to use until the gear can be filled with Poison runes? Or does that not make sense?
Or Maybe Ith runes for 3% poison spell dmg?


Monsters being stunned isn't a huge deal, but it might harm your speed a bit. I believe it's a very short stun, and they continue running at you afterwards. Monsters being spread out hurts your sustain more than it hurts your clear IMO but I didn't notice much of a difference. I think it only goes off every 16 seconds?

Your gear looks good. Pretty close to my setup. Consider putting 2x raptors on switch. Someone else suggested it in here and I think it's stronger? i'll try it tonight myself and see what happens.


Raptor



Raptor
Throwing Axes

'ZodSurLemEl'
Runeword Level: 85
(Barbarian Only)
Indestructible
3% Chance to cast level 60 Thunder Slam on Kill
-19% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(6 to 11) to Snake Stance (Barbarian Only)
+3 to all Attributes
5% to Vitality
Maximum Life +3%
Regenerate Mana +15%
+100 Life after each Kill
Looks interesting, but I'm using
Qarak's Will
Qarak's Will
Giant Sword (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (150 - 163) to (233 - 246)
Two-Hand Damage: (206 - 225) to (285 - 305)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 480
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 34 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
6% Chance to cast level 40 Pentagram on Melee Attack
10% Chance to cast level 36 Bloodlust on Kill
+(30 to 60)% Bonus Damage to Bloodlust
Adds 50-125 Damage
Adds 84-167 Fire Damage
+(26 to 38)% to Fire Spell Damage
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Damage
+(100 to 250) Life after each Kill
5% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)
for the bloodlust proc right now, thinking that will add a good amount of dmg. I'm curious about your findings.

I'm also wondering if it's not better to add Ith runes instead of Venomous runes because I have already gone over -135% enemy poison resistance. From what I heard from someone else that's the minimum amount you need for farming. And -199 for bosses. So I guess for the content I'm doing right now -135 should be enough? Or is more always better?


loosely quoting Siosilvar here but you're correct. Supposedly enemies can have up to -100% res, so if you aren't bossing you don't need it to be that high because the enemies seem to only have 35% resistances, hence the quoted 135%. If that's the case Slot Iths :)
You can always use an oil to remove your runes and swap to poison for dedicated bossing.
HOWEVER, at 140-190k poison damage, I'm still doing tons of damage for farming purposes, so laziness will probably just keep me in a -res setup. When I do bump into bosses like Darkstar, Alpha-Gamma, etc I want that -res up.


Aerial was right:
Image

Using Raptor, I went from 125k-170k to this. My MF sux right now, so I gotta work on that, but this setup really rocks!

And I got -201 enemy poison res:
https://tsw.vn.cz/char/Hurricane

Quite fun, I think that when I'm leveled up enough I will try to get some more charms. I'm having a bit of difficulty with the 120+ charms.
todeshund89
Jungle Hunter
25 | 0
you need -135 enemy resistance for trash mobs, -170 for bosses. aim for somewhere in that range. on a boss fight, the difference between, say, -140 and -150 is NOT an extra 10% damage. if you do 10,000 dmg per sec, with a boss at -70 poison resistance (i.e. if you have -140 resistances), you do 17,000 dmg. at -80 boss resistance (i.e. you have -150 resistances), you do 18,000 damage. for that extra 10% enemy resistance, you only gain a 5.5% (recurring) increase in damage.

going from -80 to -90 boss resistance, and then from -90 to -100, the diminishing return gets worse, although not by much (5.26% and flat 5%, respectively).

at that range, focusing on your damage output will serve you better, especially if you're really just trying to farm gear and experience, and it's not like more damage won't help on boss fights anyway.

as for stacking poison on gear, the damage is added up, and the duration is averaged out. example:

450 dmg over 1 second + 450 dmg over 2 seconds = 900 dmg over 1.5 seconds (or 600 dmg per second)
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magz_
Cultist
20 | 5
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Created a complete character guide
Muilpeer wrote:
magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
I'm actually thinking thundergod might harm the build because it stuns and thus keeps enemies from getting to you. And enemies getting to you is the only way you can kill them with WW, I guess it's better if the clump up around you instead o thinned out over the screen right?

For notarmoury you need to log in with your Sin Wars login credentials, so it's only accessible for players that play on the realm :) It's not the forum login.

Also, do you think Shael runes might be good to use until the gear can be filled with Poison runes? Or does that not make sense?
Or Maybe Ith runes for 3% poison spell dmg?


Monsters being stunned isn't a huge deal, but it might harm your speed a bit. I believe it's a very short stun, and they continue running at you afterwards. Monsters being spread out hurts your sustain more than it hurts your clear IMO but I didn't notice much of a difference. I think it only goes off every 16 seconds?

Your gear looks good. Pretty close to my setup. Consider putting 2x raptors on switch. Someone else suggested it in here and I think it's stronger? i'll try it tonight myself and see what happens.


Raptor



Raptor
Throwing Axes

'ZodSurLemEl'
Runeword Level: 85
(Barbarian Only)
Indestructible
3% Chance to cast level 60 Thunder Slam on Kill
-19% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(6 to 11) to Snake Stance (Barbarian Only)
+3 to all Attributes
5% to Vitality
Maximum Life +3%
Regenerate Mana +15%
+100 Life after each Kill
Looks interesting, but I'm using
Qarak's Will
Qarak's Will
Giant Sword (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (150 - 163) to (233 - 246)
Two-Hand Damage: (206 - 225) to (285 - 305)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 480
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 34 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
6% Chance to cast level 40 Pentagram on Melee Attack
10% Chance to cast level 36 Bloodlust on Kill
+(30 to 60)% Bonus Damage to Bloodlust
Adds 50-125 Damage
Adds 84-167 Fire Damage
+(26 to 38)% to Fire Spell Damage
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Damage
+(100 to 250) Life after each Kill
5% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)
for the bloodlust proc right now, thinking that will add a good amount of dmg. I'm curious about your findings.

I'm also wondering if it's not better to add Ith runes instead of Venomous runes because I have already gone over -135% enemy poison resistance. From what I heard from someone else that's the minimum amount you need for farming. And -199 for bosses. So I guess for the content I'm doing right now -135 should be enough? Or is more always better?


loosely quoting Siosilvar here but you're correct. Supposedly enemies can have up to -100% res, so if you aren't bossing you don't need it to be that high because the enemies seem to only have 35% resistances, hence the quoted 135%. If that's the case Slot Iths :)
You can always use an oil to remove your runes and swap to poison for dedicated bossing.
HOWEVER, at 140-190k poison damage, I'm still doing tons of damage for farming purposes, so laziness will probably just keep me in a -res setup. When I do bump into bosses like Darkstar, Alpha-Gamma, etc I want that -res up.


Aerial was right:
Image

Using Raptor, I went from 125k-170k to this. My MF sux right now, so I gotta work on that, but this setup really rocks!

And I got -201 enemy poison res:
https://tsw.vn.cz/char/Hurricane

Quite fun, I think that when I'm leveled up enough I will try to get some more charms. I'm having a bit of difficulty with the 120+ charms.


right on! Glad you're having fun. I'll run raptors too. good luck with the 120s!!
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Muilpeer
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magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
magz_ wrote:
Muilpeer wrote:
I'm actually thinking thundergod might harm the build because it stuns and thus keeps enemies from getting to you. And enemies getting to you is the only way you can kill them with WW, I guess it's better if the clump up around you instead o thinned out over the screen right?

For notarmoury you need to log in with your Sin Wars login credentials, so it's only accessible for players that play on the realm :) It's not the forum login.

Also, do you think Shael runes might be good to use until the gear can be filled with Poison runes? Or does that not make sense?
Or Maybe Ith runes for 3% poison spell dmg?


Monsters being stunned isn't a huge deal, but it might harm your speed a bit. I believe it's a very short stun, and they continue running at you afterwards. Monsters being spread out hurts your sustain more than it hurts your clear IMO but I didn't notice much of a difference. I think it only goes off every 16 seconds?

Your gear looks good. Pretty close to my setup. Consider putting 2x raptors on switch. Someone else suggested it in here and I think it's stronger? i'll try it tonight myself and see what happens.


Raptor



Raptor
Throwing Axes

'ZodSurLemEl'
Runeword Level: 85
(Barbarian Only)
Indestructible
3% Chance to cast level 60 Thunder Slam on Kill
-19% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(6 to 11) to Snake Stance (Barbarian Only)
+3 to all Attributes
5% to Vitality
Maximum Life +3%
Regenerate Mana +15%
+100 Life after each Kill
Looks interesting, but I'm using
Qarak's Will
Qarak's Will
Giant Sword (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (150 - 163) to (233 - 246)
Two-Hand Damage: (206 - 225) to (285 - 305)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 480
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 34 Spike Nova on Melee Attack
6% Chance to cast level 40 Pentagram on Melee Attack
10% Chance to cast level 36 Bloodlust on Kill
+(30 to 60)% Bonus Damage to Bloodlust
Adds 50-125 Damage
Adds 84-167 Fire Damage
+(26 to 38)% to Fire Spell Damage
+(140 to 170)% Enhanced Damage
+(100 to 250) Life after each Kill
5% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)
for the bloodlust proc right now, thinking that will add a good amount of dmg. I'm curious about your findings.

I'm also wondering if it's not better to add Ith runes instead of Venomous runes because I have already gone over -135% enemy poison resistance. From what I heard from someone else that's the minimum amount you need for farming. And -199 for bosses. So I guess for the content I'm doing right now -135 should be enough? Or is more always better?


loosely quoting Siosilvar here but you're correct. Supposedly enemies can have up to -100% res, so if you aren't bossing you don't need it to be that high because the enemies seem to only have 35% resistances, hence the quoted 135%. If that's the case Slot Iths :)
You can always use an oil to remove your runes and swap to poison for dedicated bossing.
HOWEVER, at 140-190k poison damage, I'm still doing tons of damage for farming purposes, so laziness will probably just keep me in a -res setup. When I do bump into bosses like Darkstar, Alpha-Gamma, etc I want that -res up.


Aerial was right:
Image

Using Raptor, I went from 125k-170k to this. My MF sux right now, so I gotta work on that, but this setup really rocks!

And I got -201 enemy poison res:
https://tsw.vn.cz/char/Hurricane

Quite fun, I think that when I'm leveled up enough I will try to get some more charms. I'm having a bit of difficulty with the 120+ charms.


right on! Glad you're having fun. I'll run raptors too. good luck with the 120s!!


I realized it's better to run the higher bosses with my neutraldin or totemmancer. Gonna do Lillith now, WW barb is not chill to do that with, switching to edyrems to summon and then go back to WW. The edyrems die too fast and you can only do dmg when not casting edyrems. With neutral and totem you can do dmg while summoning edyrems which really helps.

I think Xazax is a good one to do with this poison barb as it allows you to do dmg while being out of range. Gonna try him now!

Also, I think it would be cool to look at an MF setup, I think you can easily swap out the Wyrd set belt for Lillith's temptation and still get away with farming Fauzt easily. Also, running fully with Ist runes should also be possible but haven't tested that yet as I don't have 20 Ists :D

Edit:
Pushed a little faster, merc with bloodlust proc:
Image

Xazax, Belial and Lilith all done 1st try and deathless. It just takes a while in some cases. Belial seemed to heal up a lot, Xazax was good and Lilith.. Well I suggest skipping all the amazons and just WW down to Lilith and create a safe pocket in the bottom corner of the map. From there clean a bit and slowly move to the right. Then it's Edyrems on RMB and WW on LMB, it will take less than a minute if you place the Edyrems correctly. After killing her quickly WW away from that spot because her on death proc will probably kill you.

I can't wait to see tips for the other ubers, but I expect them to be quite the pain with this build. Have yet to try Ureh, but I think it's going to be EZ. Doesn't the movement speed increase hurt WW?

Siosilvar wrote:War Scepter and Flail are the only options for Demhe with 6 sockets.

War Scepter
Melee range: 1
Attack Speed Modifier: -10 (requires 24 wIAS for max frames -> 2 attack speed jewels)

Flail
Melee range: 2
Attack Speed Modifier: 10 (requires 44 wIAS for max frames -> 3 attack speed jewels)

Frames aren't quite as important on the poison build but they're still nice to have. Flail is probably better just for the range.


I wonder what the Blacktongue should have in terms of attack speed. When I do the calculation it would come down to having to add 49% IAS.

So this means 4x Gul in weapon.

Flamberge Attack Speed Modifier: 15
2H swords need -34
15 + 34 = 49

I did add enough to the flail to get to 4FPA, but I assume that Blacktongue needs its own IAS?
Edited by Muilpeer 3 weeks.
abcdpc
Dark Huntress
14 | 0
somewhat weird to ask..

but should I keep ww's attack speed?
User avatar
magz_
Cultist
20 | 5
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Created a complete character guide
Muilpeer wrote:
I can't wait to see tips for the other ubers, but I expect them to be quite the pain with this build. Have yet to try Ureh, but I think it's going to be EZ. Doesn't the movement speed increase hurt WW?


I did add enough to the flail to get to 4FPA, but I assume that Blacktongue needs its own IAS?



abcdpc wrote:somewhat weird to ask..

but should I keep ww's attack speed?



Gonna answer both of you in the same post, but poison doesn't care as much about having move speed. Because our damage is over time we really only need to hit once most of the time, so hitting and running is further enabled by good move speed.

HOWEVER, in answering abc's question (with Sio's info); supposedly a fraction (like 4%?) of your total poison damage is applied on frame 1. SO for WW, having attack speed does benefit us a little, and in turn we might get a little from slow move speed, but we definitely don't care as much about those stats as phys/magic, especially if we're aiming to kill things and move as quickly as possible away. It's a bit of a tradeoff so I'd say it's up to you. I personally value move speed, especially for farming.

Because we're already not really a bossing character I'm not too concerned about min-maxing single target
Siosilvar
Heretic
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I go into exactly why a little bit in the poison mechanics guide I wrote (still need to format and submit it), but because WW hits with both weapons on the same frame (starting with the 3rd attack) you can get up to a 25% DPS boost by whirling on the same target if both your weapons hit 4 fpa.

If Gale Force also hits the primary target (and I'm not sure it does), it's a little over 50%.
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Ekital
Monkey King
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Going to give a little tip: try 2x
Blacktongue
Blacktongue
Flamberge (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (101 - 119) to (110 - 130)
Two-Hand Damage: (165 - 195) to (169 - 200)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength:
300
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 44 Rotting Flesh on Melee Attack
+25% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Damage
+(40 to 60)% to Poison Spell Damage
-(20 to 35)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(14 to 20) to Amatoxin
Slow Target 15%
Maximum Poison Resist +(1 to 2)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (6)
+
Warmonger
Warmonger
Fanged Helm (Sacred)

Defense: (4347 - 4785) to (5010 - 5474)
(Barbarian Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 446
Item Level: 120
Area Effect Attack
Adds 100-200 Fire Damage
Adds 100-200 Lightning Damage
Adds 100-200 Cold Damage
+(160 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+(1500 to 2000) Defense
Elemental/Magic Damage Reduced by 40
10% Chance to Avoid Damage
Socketed (4)
and get 2K energy instead of full vit for MFing.

Also this build can do all ubers as well with slightly different gearing but I'll let you experiment instead of giving you all the solutions.
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Muilpeer
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Ekital wrote:Going to give a little tip: try 2x
Blacktongue
Blacktongue
Flamberge (Sacred)

One-Hand Damage: (101 - 119) to (110 - 130)
Two-Hand Damage: (165 - 195) to (169 - 200)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength:
300
Item Level: 105
Strength Damage Bonus: (0.16 per Strength)%
15% Chance to cast level 44 Rotting Flesh on Melee Attack
+25% Bonus to Poison Skill Duration
+(120 to 160)% Enhanced Damage
+(40 to 60)% to Poison Spell Damage
-(20 to 35)% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+(14 to 20) to Amatoxin
Slow Target 15%
Maximum Poison Resist +(1 to 2)%
Requirements -50%
Socketed (6)
+
Warmonger
Warmonger
Fanged Helm (Sacred)

Defense: (4347 - 4785) to (5010 - 5474)
(Barbarian Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 446
Item Level: 120
Area Effect Attack
Adds 100-200 Fire Damage
Adds 100-200 Lightning Damage
Adds 100-200 Cold Damage
+(160 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
+(1500 to 2000) Defense
Elemental/Magic Damage Reduced by 40
10% Chance to Avoid Damage
Socketed (4)
and get 2K energy instead of full vit for MFing.

Also this build can do all ubers as well with slightly different gearing but I'll let you experiment instead of giving you all the solutions.


I wasn't aware that energy helps with MFing. Or am I misunderstanding this? I do have warmonger but still need a second Blacktongue to try it out.