Player leveling struggle poll (Pick 2)

Thank you for all inputs. I know the poll wont be perfect since I cant simply put a poll for every classes & trees here.

Based on my experiences with median for past 15 years, there always been:
1. Pure summoner roflstomp since summon auto scale (I remember marco tried to toned down it though)
2. STR / DEX build struggle with gear, but can be easy with godly stat scaling skill
3. Caster might have some problem with mana cost & immunity (i heard all immunity gone?)
4. Lastly ranged build is always known struggle early games, since monster are faster & tankier in median compared to d2.

Barb & sin was always king. Mostly because stat scaling and damage passive.

I will check ranged zon class next, since majority vote is there. Not sure how fair i can assess though, but for sure I can easily see if it struggled too much compared to my rolfstomp barb.

Dunno if u saw it too, but mostly in all of those topics appear people who are barely new to median at all. I can check it once again but im quite sure this is the real reason, jumping to this mod without reading / preparing / asking questions at forum before you choose your first class. Thinking its exactly just another "mod" can be part of the reason why people have problems. Because come on... true is that 1st act mobs are stronger than they use to be, Duriel is much easier for me than he was before, i dont remember how many wipes i have in early 1.8 because i didnt understand his abilities... and now its more simple.

As i said im not veteran but i play as WW Barb, I finished Normal as Summoner Baba, than straight away i switched for WW for whole Nightmare and Hell... nad it was not HARD, at all. My friend is playing Amazon that use lightnings (no idea what build is that) but he also didnt have problem with the bosses ( no we didnt play together until 5th act in hell)

I'm attempting Rift level 6 on my AMA. I get absolutely shredded. Somehow, Hammer/Spearzon feels even worse than before update. Also, Hammerzons can't benefit from melee mastery since it negates two of their most powerful spells. Feelsbad.

One thing to note is that mana issues is normally the problem.

So the easy way to level a class that has flat damage passives is to max the passive and leave the "carrying skill" at level 1.

Hat tip to Istaryu. His Maelstrom assassin guide made me realise that's the way to run an assa up to most of the way thru NM (when it can get Void rw) - max Ways and leave Maelstrom at 1.

With cold druid, I struggled at first, but an amazon merc with an elemental bow helps. Once you get Harbinger cd removed you can pounce so fast it's incredible. Then one day when I died, I didn't rez the merc, thinking it wasn't having time to do anything... how wrong I was. I couldn't kill anything! I think it was the merc doing the killing - it seems every time I teleported to a new enemy the merc triggered a spell that insta-killed. I need to verify this - I stopped playing it after that, I was kinda depressed lol/

Hmm, when i cleared act 1 with new javazon. I noticed couple of things

1. Mana cost design is very archaic and hurtful for certain build, especially if it str / dex based. Even with max 3 point to mana regen passive , I found that Im running out of mana if it a prolong fight. It is good that I dont need much mana chugging, but it very different compared to my barb experience which can use 1 point melee skill (low mana cost) and spend tons of points into stance (damage skill) without having problem with mana.

2. Enemy speed became problematic at tamoe highland and afterward. Mostly i noticed with warforged shaman... minions & those diablo 1 steel knight. Mind you that as Amazon, i should able to outrun them but I cant imagine for other classes. The problem will manifold if there are packs of elite / champions that jump on top you en masse. Interior layout design also emphasize close-range combat, although you can still play around door.

3. Gold is weird subject matter to me. Last time we could just farm that elite in underground passage for gold and MOs to our heart content. But since MO is more pricey & gold is abit limited resource at beginning, so you pretty much to have rely on random drop for decent. Combined with lack of knowledge for new player, I can see this could be a struggle for them.

The only struggle I have is Andariel since I have 0 resist. But my hireling pretty much kill both andariel and smith with ease & not losing any health.
I will try to switch skills around (I dont want to level up multiple amazon if i can). I still use starter javelin for some reason (no random drop, not gambling anything yet). I got feeling the struggle will start to kick in act 2 or act 3, so Im doing another poll to get this info.

iwansquall wrote:Hmm, when i cleared act 1 with new javazon. I noticed couple of things

1. Mana cost design is very archaic and hurtful for certain build, especially if it str / dex based. Even with max 3 point to mana regen passive , I found that Im running out of mana if it a prolong fight. It is good that I dont need much mana chugging, but it very different compared to my barb experience which can use 1 point melee skill (low mana cost) and spend tons of points into stance (damage skill) without having problem with mana.

You can pump some energy at early levels to help with mana sustain, you can just respec any time before 50 to get rid of them when you will have much better mana sustain from just the levels.

The only struggle I have is Andariel since I have 0 resist.[/quote]

Akara's robe, rainbow belt rw.

Leveling is definitely nerfed and I don't know why.
I'm a casual player, not a total noob but not far either, with limited experience with MXL from previous patches, and I play SSF/SP. While I had a smooth 1-115 experience with pretty much anything I tried in 1.8, I had a much rougher leveling in 2.0. Harder enemies (some of them pretty nasty, mostly the new ones), nerfed gem and rune usage, changes to classes and skills, less runeword options for early game, mana issues, perhaps worse drop rates(?)...all of it combined made this patch less enjoyable.
Some may disagree but I'm discussing this from a perspective of someone inexperienced who doesn't know all the ways to circumvent these issues.

I tried few classes and builds and this is my experience with them:
1. Totem Necro - seems to be FotM but I found it clunky early on and dropped it pretty fast. Also, I swear I have no idea what is the cold totem targeting and how, I found the lightning one to be more consistant. I think I'll try a Summon Necro instead...
2. Bloodzon - the worst experience I've had. Targeting of the skill is so wonky and annoying, half of the time I didn't know what it will hit, I was just wasting mana...it was bad.
3. Melee Sorceress - it was...ok. Not that fast nor easy, being limited with weapons doesn't help, I had to spend a bunch of money on gambling and oils and use arcane crystals to make the TU sword and Sorc chest. After that it was better but still not that smooth. Might try Cold Sorc next...

Now, my current favorite, Spearzon. Many don't seem to like it but I had a very smooth leveling to 107 with it. I used rare spears in most of the Normal diff and it was ok, you just have to keep Fury active (more on that later). I had a lucky drop in the form of TU Maiden Spear and it really picked up from there. The boost to move/attack speed and defense that Fury gives with healing provided to my main skill (Great Hunt), combined with damage and phys res from Fend, damage + AR + defense from Lioness, move speed, FHR, more defense and slow from passives made it a very fast moving and attacking build with a lot of damage and tankyness. I facetanked Diablo in Nightmare, but wanted to rip my hair out in Baal's throne room, which is a separate story...

The issue I have with Spearzon is how you achieve all that. Having to reapply Fury via Takedown every 12 seconds or wasting a number of your hits to maintain it is a pain in the ass and without Fury you're almost useless, it's an essential mechanic. Another thing, it takes 5 hits for full effect. That's a good portion of your potential damage wasted on maintaining buffs. Another buff, Fend, eating half of my mana pool every 30 seconds is not fun either.
I'd like to see the Fury duration be longer or, even better, the number of hits needed for full effect reduced to 3, for example. That would make the Spearzon gameplay smoother and less annoying. I watched a streamer play melee Necro and it was basically the same experience, only Necro doesn't have to constantly rebuff itself and has a better AoE.

Now, the Lister experience...whoever designed that part of Baal's throne room, screw you. It's such a pain in the ass for melee, I have no words to describe. Having to chase after Lister's harem of hags running around the room and nuking you while Lister sets his fields of fuck you all over the place is so annoying...Then, once you finally clear them out, you have to chase after Lister himself who teleports as soon as you get near and still pops his crap relentlessly, with Baal decreping you. Even if you manage to catch him in place for more than 2 secons, he nukes you so you have to run away without barely doing damage. On top of all that, having to build up Fury stacks in order to do anything at all, almost made me punch the monitor...
I know he's not the only teleporting miniboss in the game and they are the bane of melee characters, but those used to be reserved for rifts and ubers, not this early. Lister is a big fuck you to melee and whoever redesigned him doesn't seem to get just how frustrating he can be for a fresh player with a squishy, undergeared and unoptimized melee character...

Another thing I'd like to adress are the stat requirements for gear, namely STR. It always annoyed me how my main focus for gearing while leveling is getting enough attributes, instead of experimenting with gear and finetuning your build. It's so dumb that you won't have enough stats for stuff that you want to wear until you hit 110+ and you're basically pidgeonholled in using multiple pieces of gear with %attributes and/or a big boost to desired attribute, regardless of how beneficial it is to your build, or you're doomed to use low tier/weaker gear until you finally hit 115+ farming spots. It's even more emphasized now, when you should maintain gear progression in order to deal with tougher monsters and harder leveling but you can't because you're gimped by the lack of stats. Again, experienced players might know how to get around that but I have inexperienced ones in mind and fresh/SSF characters with less wealth.
So, having attribute requirements for gear lowered (primarily STR) would be really nice, at least for gear you have access to prior to getting to SUs and farming areas...

Those are thoughts on leveling in 2.0 so far...

Short observation with my bloodzon atm (havent finish act 2 yet).

1. Stat distribution
As i said earlier, if you play a caster, logically you have put points into energy correct? But if you put too much energy, you wouldnt have enough for heavy str or dex gear. I try to juggle around, seem like it feel like need i to distribute 25% str / 25% dex / 50% energy for decent result

2. Lack of meaningful skill points investment
As i said with mana cost increased with skill level, it seem like Amazon skill tree design have lack of combat passive to spend to aside from its tunnel visioned devotion passive (which mostly unlocked at higher level). Fire elemental that was staple helper at early game, also have become late game upgrade for blood tree. If you invest too much on skills, you will have issue with mana cost since many of the skill have terrible dps per mana spent in early games.

I just did a small test to find out which low level skill bloodzon have issues at low investment
1. Magic missile
It seem like it missed alot, despite you try to fire toward enemy. Bloodfury is indeed strong. But i really dislike he super high cost mana required, especially magic missile required to spam alot of spell to kill small amount of enemy.

2. Bloodstorm
Same problem with mana cost. Seem need like need high energy + 3 mana regen passive to be comfortable with it. So far i think the spell is slowest killer out of 3 im testing. Perhaps because the skill is powerful late game aoe clearer. Not a fan of it slowness.

3. Balefire
Perhaps the easiest skill to use. Deal decent damage even at level 1. Seem like not enough to 1 shot enemy until i do more gear investment (meaning stacking energy alone is not good enough).

Perhaps Im biased and I know this test is not the best explanation what was the issue player have in early games.
Chugging mana potions probably can fix most of the issue, however not many new players will realize the how important it is though.

Based on the other poll, seem like the problem is more toward find better gear as early as possible.
Also, i dunno if it feel that way but I seeing low amount of TUs as well per act.

Also, i dunno if it feel that way but I seeing low amount of TUs as well per act.

That's something that caught my attention too, and not just when it comes to TUs. In 1.8 I was swimming in runes and TUs by the time I hit 100, before I even hit the farming spots. Now, not so much. Targeted Nilathatk/Meph farm is pretty much mandatory if you want to keep up.

Also, rares. I don't know what it is but I could barely find a useful rare item, especially the jewelry. In 1.8, I was pretty much guaranteed to have +skills on both rings and ammy, as well as decent stats by the time I get to Hell Diablo. Now, I swap the Ring of Regha from character to character for that +10% all res and the rest of my jewelry is utter junk...and that's on a lv110 toon.
I don't know if there was some affix tuning on rares or not, or the RNGesus just hates me, but it sucks. I can get by with farming crystals to make TUs but you're pretty much screwed for jewelry unless you MO them, which takes a bunch of gold which you will lack until Hell+...

iwansquall wrote:1. Stat distribution

I went all energy, since the loots were garbage anyway, and non-TUs / RWs usually don't help a lot.
All energy did not help.

iwansquall wrote:Fire elemental that was staple helper at early game

Both Bloodstorm and Magic Missiles absolutely 100% rely on you keeping distance between you and mobs, AND mobs standing still (for bloodstorm).
Now, you can't do either. No, merc doesn't help. Untwinked mercs are super slow and clunky, even Shapeshifter.
Bloodzon (and to lesser extent, Bowzon, which is 100% out of the picture now) need early elementals by all means. Bowzon is just painfully slow to level until she has any sort of good ranged damage (Barrage is good, but it's essentially a melee range skill for a char that has no defense passives at all at low lvl). Elementals were such a core of both builds' earlygame plays that losing them removes the little bit of strength you need to actually push through to good items and farming / midgame content. I just don't even want to play Ama anymore, and she was my favorite class.

Player leveling struggle poll (Pick 2)

Which classes you struggling leveling with?