OnlyForFun wrote:please tl;dr version, too much water....
"modern median abuses me"
Complaints this season
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So... there's this rock,
and we all live on it,
together...
One Man, says to another "We aren't being honest enough about the reality."
The other Man says "We are being cheated, that's why there are so many problems!"
The first Man says "Well, someone has to do something about it."
The other Man says "Well, why don't you do something about it!"
So there's this rock, and, we all live on it together.
and we all live on it,
together...
One Man, says to another "We aren't being honest enough about the reality."
The other Man says "We are being cheated, that's why there are so many problems!"
The first Man says "Well, someone has to do something about it."
The other Man says "Well, why don't you do something about it!"
So there's this rock, and, we all live on it together.
Taem wrote:Redacted
I thought his main point was pretty simple, you just are choosing not to understand it. The mod has a lot more content in recent years, but feels more like a sterile soulless grind than ever before. I don't mind grinding in a game but the grind over the years feels more and more trivial and like a waste of effort.
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I think honestly after the changes that have been made in recent years,
I will probably stop playing this game entirely after this season.
The introduction of literal loot boxes is so insulting to me
having played this game and others, for so many years,
wasting so much time, as opposed to just having some fun
online with other people, being abused by the development practices.
Enough is enough. Median has completely lost sight of it's own best qualities.
Real life currency based on an endless lottery system, that is designed
so that we lose, instead of ever gaining anything tangible, is extremely abusive,
I could go on for awhile, but I think the fact that they literally added loot boxes
is a sign they have given up on representing they have any integrity anymore.
The changes that have been made to this game have made it worse than other games
that are well known to be predatorial and highly abusive to their players.
It's been fun, but I think median has doomed itself to the graveyard of other private
servers which went down the road of selling virtual items for real life money.
I will probably stop playing this game entirely after this season.
The introduction of literal loot boxes is so insulting to me
having played this game and others, for so many years,
wasting so much time, as opposed to just having some fun
online with other people, being abused by the development practices.
Enough is enough. Median has completely lost sight of it's own best qualities.
Real life currency based on an endless lottery system, that is designed
so that we lose, instead of ever gaining anything tangible, is extremely abusive,
I could go on for awhile, but I think the fact that they literally added loot boxes
is a sign they have given up on representing they have any integrity anymore.
The changes that have been made to this game have made it worse than other games
that are well known to be predatorial and highly abusive to their players.
It's been fun, but I think median has doomed itself to the graveyard of other private
servers which went down the road of selling virtual items for real life money.
With that kind of very poetry formatting, those post sounded like some copy pasta with game name changed, likely to be meme'ing.
From my opinion, we need dev to come out with a manifesto to communicate with players about their vision and goal, be it balancing the game to be easier to accommodate more new players, or keep the game for it's hardcore soul crushing origin.
So that we can move on instead of keep speculating based on own perspective or pure assumption.
Dev's time is limited, they are real human beings with their own life, they have dedicated their limited time to continue on this passion project, lets sink that in for a little bit.
Now, this is based on my own speculation.
It feels like the dev team is working hard on removing power from items and trying to move more power or base kit into the talent tree, after achieving a certain level of balance on tree, then only they'll move on to work on items.
That said, balancing isn't a easy feat to work on, they simply need more time and sample data.
example this patch, spirit reave used to be gated behind chance to activate after minion death, without any tuning to the numbers, it's currently OP AF (although barb minion clear is questionable mainly gated behind accuracy scaling)
And then askari lightning that used to scale based on dex is now OP as shit
To name a current well balanced Skill Tree/Itemized class would Necro Summoner, it's not too OP, offers different playstyle base on items found, namely dual VK with Laz set, or oversummoning Abyss Knight, or Summon Hawks (Although hawk oversummoning doesn't work as intended)
This is beautifully made, you have your base power in talent tree, and then having the opportunity of playstyle changes based on items
*Special thanks to the dev that makes Abyss Knight's spell so unintrusive, very easy on the eyes for long farming session
With the removal of Xis Runes and converting to upgradable Enhanced Runes, this opens up more freedom on farming runes on multiple different location, instead of farming teganze 24/7 to upgrade all your gear piece.
Although not advisable, but you can theoretically farm enough El runes to upgrade all they way to Xod, just like that WoW guy that farmed to max level at the starting area.
I see this as a good direction, problem is, after the removal of Xis version of RW, a lot of builds are now starved for "in between" filler RW before obtaining their BiS SU/SSU/SSSU.
Builds that have okay RW to bridge between TU>SET>BiS, good for you, the rest might suffer until dev team finally have time to work on them.
So, personally i'm expecting a few more wonky season before seeing some real good stuffs, right now it feels like getting a accidental OP build for the season every season.
About realm player retention, are we talking about trade activities? or just solely headcounts that plays in realm? i for one is a stubborn SSF player.
As for those players that i keep hearing about finishing the game in 7~8 Days every season, i have so many questions.
who are these people?
how many are they?
are they representing the top 1% of player base or some serious numbers like 50% or more?
what builds are they playing?
are they pushing new builds every season?
or they just keep doing the same tried and true builds?
what is their objective?
Are they some super duper hard headed speed running ladder climbers?
any of these people willing to come out with some explanation or interview?
Above questions might sound exaggerated, but I'm genuinely curious, constantly comparing ourselves with the top 1% is not healthy.
It all boils down to what the dev have to say, this is their game.
are they planning to balance towards the very often name called pleb player base (myself included)?
or stay true to the origin and makes shit as hard and as masochist as possible?
I really think that a good dev manifesto is needed.
From my opinion, we need dev to come out with a manifesto to communicate with players about their vision and goal, be it balancing the game to be easier to accommodate more new players, or keep the game for it's hardcore soul crushing origin.
So that we can move on instead of keep speculating based on own perspective or pure assumption.
Dev's time is limited, they are real human beings with their own life, they have dedicated their limited time to continue on this passion project, lets sink that in for a little bit.
Now, this is based on my own speculation.
It feels like the dev team is working hard on removing power from items and trying to move more power or base kit into the talent tree, after achieving a certain level of balance on tree, then only they'll move on to work on items.
That said, balancing isn't a easy feat to work on, they simply need more time and sample data.
example this patch, spirit reave used to be gated behind chance to activate after minion death, without any tuning to the numbers, it's currently OP AF (although barb minion clear is questionable mainly gated behind accuracy scaling)
And then askari lightning that used to scale based on dex is now OP as shit
To name a current well balanced Skill Tree/Itemized class would Necro Summoner, it's not too OP, offers different playstyle base on items found, namely dual VK with Laz set, or oversummoning Abyss Knight, or Summon Hawks (Although hawk oversummoning doesn't work as intended)
This is beautifully made, you have your base power in talent tree, and then having the opportunity of playstyle changes based on items
*Special thanks to the dev that makes Abyss Knight's spell so unintrusive, very easy on the eyes for long farming session
With the removal of Xis Runes and converting to upgradable Enhanced Runes, this opens up more freedom on farming runes on multiple different location, instead of farming teganze 24/7 to upgrade all your gear piece.
Although not advisable, but you can theoretically farm enough El runes to upgrade all they way to Xod, just like that WoW guy that farmed to max level at the starting area.
I see this as a good direction, problem is, after the removal of Xis version of RW, a lot of builds are now starved for "in between" filler RW before obtaining their BiS SU/SSU/SSSU.
Builds that have okay RW to bridge between TU>SET>BiS, good for you, the rest might suffer until dev team finally have time to work on them.
So, personally i'm expecting a few more wonky season before seeing some real good stuffs, right now it feels like getting a accidental OP build for the season every season.
About realm player retention, are we talking about trade activities? or just solely headcounts that plays in realm? i for one is a stubborn SSF player.
As for those players that i keep hearing about finishing the game in 7~8 Days every season, i have so many questions.
who are these people?
how many are they?
are they representing the top 1% of player base or some serious numbers like 50% or more?
what builds are they playing?
are they pushing new builds every season?
or they just keep doing the same tried and true builds?
what is their objective?
Are they some super duper hard headed speed running ladder climbers?
any of these people willing to come out with some explanation or interview?
Above questions might sound exaggerated, but I'm genuinely curious, constantly comparing ourselves with the top 1% is not healthy.
It all boils down to what the dev have to say, this is their game.
are they planning to balance towards the very often name called pleb player base (myself included)?
or stay true to the origin and makes shit as hard and as masochist as possible?
I really think that a good dev manifesto is needed.
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heamn wrote: I really think that a good dev manifesto is needed.
You know, this isn't such a bad idea. I feel like the community might be in the dark about what the end-game of the Median project really is. I know they stated they wanted to make their own game, to get away from the Diablo 2 engine or anything Diablo related. Has there been any thoughts in the developers minds about moving on to Unreal Engine 5 or Unity?
I imagine for most developers it would be too daunting of a task to accomplish just because of how much work was put into D2 Median, but we do see it all the time. The Forgotten City, PUBG, DOTA etc.
Granted, ARPG's are some of the most difficult things to create and get right, but has there been any discussion on this front? Has the income from D2 Median been enough to start the project?
Currently there are two major groups. There's people like myself who love the quality of life Sigma has provided, and the new content, but we hate the removal of many concepts we believed to be the heart and soul of MXL. (ex. Player Choice, and the ability to be completely OP and steamroll the screen because it was fun even with non-meta builds.)
The second major group is calling for additional change, not necessarily bad changes mind you, but changes that bring us further away (even if for the better of the majority.) from what we used to enjoy. (ex. Level locking ubers to save newbies, streamlined progression, less player choice through removal of previous concepts that were not newbie friendly or required more documentation.)
I think the solution is pretty clear. There needs to be a way to balance these two groups, but because of how it was done in our timeline one feels alienated and not being listened to because we are not the majority (Group 1). Furthermore, the first group is very devoted, relentless. That's why we keep seeing these topics coming up about "The direction of MXL is bad.". Know however, that it comes from a place of love for MXL. These two groups don't have to fight, but we fight because we can't come up with a reasonable solution. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
A dev manifesto might be the solvent that gets us unstuck.
tl;dr - Vets and Vets+Newbies are fighting. There has to be a solution that meets in the middle, a dev manifesto that discusses potential solutions might be the best thing to happen to the community.
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There are noobs and pro’s , Noobs can get better if they play a lot it seems to me that they want to bring mxl to vanilla level cause only then there wont be no complaints , now when it comes to the pro’s if the game gets a lot easier you cant get worse to actually enjoy the game , its same as DOTA 2 for example where its mostly about skill of players , some noobs do actually learn the game and get to the top but 99.9% dont that doesnt mean the game should be made easier , idk where do people come with this idea, it seems to me that noobs dont have enough time to invest in MxL and here’s they want the game easier …. I am an ex dota 2 pro and there were times when i played with my noob friends i would not enjoy the game at all cause it felt like playing with bots , same as mxl making the game easier than it is would feel the same, MEDIAN XL Is only hard because players lack the Knowledge , thats the only reason , SKILL matter but not to the same extent, you gain knowledge by playing a lot and ask other people in discord or forums etc , complaining without doing these 2 its feels like coming out of rage , and i think people take this mod as still being D2 vanilla but it is almost as a new game , getting into a new game it would take a long time to learn it.
Edited by morphed 2 years.
Vatiel wrote:The introduction of literal loot boxes is so insulting to me
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word. Every single mob in this game is a loot box. How come they didn't bother you before?
Nobody sane has any issues with loot boxes. They have issues with predatory monetization. Median doesn't have predatory monetization.
morphed wrote:There are noobs and pro’s , Noobs can get better if they play a lot it seems to me that they want to bring mxl to vanilla level cause only then there wont be no complaints , now when it comes to the pro’s if the game gets a lot easier you cant get worse to actually enjoy the game , its same as DOTA 2 for example where its mostly about skill of players , some noobs do actually learn the game and get to the top but 99.9% dont that doesnt mean the game should be made easier , idk where do people come with this idea, it seems to me that noobs dont have enough time to invest in MxL and here’s they want the game easier …. I am an ex dota 2 pro and there were times when i played with my noob friends i would not enjoy the game at all cause it felt like playing with bots , same as mxl making the game easier than it is would feel the same, MEDIAN XL Is only hard because players lack the Knowledge , thats the only reason , SKILL matter but not to the same extent, you gain knowledge by playing a lot and ask other people in discord or forums etc , complaining without doing these 2 its feels like coming out of rage , and i think people take this mod as still being D2 vanilla but it is almost as a new game , getting into a new game it would take a long time to learn it.
We need more elaboration and examples in our discussion.
With my most recent interaction in short question thread, it seems to me that some players don't know enough to know that they don't know, or lack information on even asking the right question with keywords.
We need a clear benchmark on this so call "pros" and "noobs" group, see my latest feedback thread on barb summoning, am i a noob for trying to push barb summoner to Scolsgen? Should i be satisfied that the build is so much shittier compared with some dude with neutral din set can just breeze thru it with winks and flying kisses. or hell, i can just respec the barb to another form guard tower build.
If i give in to trade, go for fotm builds and play those very narrowly selected top OP builds to push into Lab10 with eyes closed, does that makes me a pro now?
in my opinion, this calls for a required balancing, hence we need a benchmark, how the dev visioned Scolsgen supposed to be, do we want it to be as easy as the winking flying kissing neutral din in set?
or do we push it as hard as the HC clawsin Russian streamer that did Lab with superb careful backtrack, kiting, observe for timing and go in for some deeps and retreat again in a super butt clenching vibe?