earlier in the thread i just stated "i like it" im going to expand on it a bit.
In my eyes balance in these types of games shouldn't be defined by tedious extra factors. a lot of small changes in median in the quality of life department have removed some of the absurd parts of the game that made the game "hard" without providing any appropriate feelings of reward or mastery that correspond with extra work. For example the MO changes cut down the time spent cubing items drastically, the crafting changes make rare and crafted gear more attainable thus cutting down endless farm time, removing pointless things like dragon rolling mo of luck and other things that just contribute to extra hours doing boring things and carpal tunnel make the game feel more modern and altogether much better to play. The corpse recovery system was a deep limitation of the D2 engine that was clearly very hard to overcome judging by the fact that we dont even have a perfect corpse recovery system yet with the corpse spawning in town next to you. Because of this it was necessary and natural that the game would follow a balance pattern that takes character corpses into mind. This patch is like ripping off the band-aid, some people may not like it some people may love it but removing this archaic and to be honest confusing mechanic allows the devs to really tune the game better and design content without this unfun system in mind.
ps. How does it make sense that your characters body becomes detached from themselves on death in any real roleplaying way anyways?
tldr: game was balanced around a bullshit archaic corpse mechanic in the past this patch is a step in the right direction and allows the dev team to balance the game around a more intuitive and fun design element.
Your opinion on auto corpse recovery?
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mxlcurious2 wrote:I guess if you think it is too noob of a game mechanic you can play Hardcore, or keep your mouth shut
no, if you dont like discussing this topic you can ignore this thread. median xl is not made for hardcore and even decent players die a lot in some situations, no amount of skill can keep you alive sometimes. the corpse+tp mechanic has pros and cons to it but hc is obviously not a solution to the abuse for 90+% of players. trying to shut down a productive on-topic discussion with a miserable non-sequitur like that is very sad
void wrote:mxlcurious2 wrote:I guess if you think it is too noob of a game mechanic you can play Hardcore, or keep your mouth shut
no, if you dont like discussing this topic you can ignore this thread. median xl is not made for hardcore and even decent players die a lot in some situations, no amount of skill can keep you alive sometimes. the corpse+tp mechanic has pros and cons to it but hc is obviously not a solution to the abuse for 90+% of players. trying to shut down a productive on-topic discussion with a miserable non-sequitur like that is very sad
Wasn't trying to ""shut down a topic"
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You can't just go running into a DISCUSSION topic telling people to shut their mouth if they have an opposing opinion, smart one.
Auto corpse recovery makes a lot of ubers not only easier - but completely removes their difficulty. You can now put a "difficulty: 0" at most of the CMxl ubers with this system.
I will provide an example: I have leveled a melee axe barb to 120 in sp, my gear is pretty bad although I have 1,5 million def (maxed bear stance + runes in all items ofc). I did some of the really easy ubers: king koth, tal rasha, creature of flame, death projector, infernal machine, iotss (which admittedly is fucking cancer for barb because of Malic) and then I decided, since we have auto corpse recovery why not head straight for the cathedral of vanity? Well, I entered it, didn't care about anything at all, didn't use my brain, just tried to do as much damage to the spire before I die. I died, took corpse back and repeated same thing for 5 times, then spire died and I killed everything else. I concluded that this uber is not tricky or easy or whatever, but literally trivial, 0 difficulty, you just need a bit of time to do it, no need for brain or anything, which is sad. In previous patches, if I was not able to do this uber I'd try a different approach or come back when I'm a bit more geared, and when I, especially when I was a new player, finished the uber, I'd feel very satisfied. Now I don't. Because I cheesed it.
With that being said, does my post actually have any significance, does what I said actually matter, is auto corpse recovery a problem? no. Why? Because like someone above me said, when Marco took over, this game became more MP oriented, and due to that (and also because we have a stable and "official" server) most of the players now play MP, and in MP they can of course rejoin games like they always could, so the only thing corpse recovery does is make the MP corpse recovery less time consuming and removes the disadvantage SP players had compared to MP players.
So in short, corpse recovery:
>MP corpse recover (rejoin) is now less time consuming, SP players are no longer at a disadvantage.
>removes a lot of frustration from the game
>is overall a very good thing
People who complain about corpse recovery are complaining about a part of the problem and not about the root of the problem. If you remove corpse recovery, you make the game more balanced for SP players (because the first ubers are no longer trivial) but you also put them at a disadvantage which is very unfair, so it would be silly to remove it, besides you would just make MP players more frustrated.
If you wish to get rid of corpse recovery you must also get rid of being able to rejoin games. However, recovering corpse was really hemorrhoids, so I tihnk auto corpse recovery should stay as is. Removing TPs is not a solution at all and the only thing it will do is add a huge amount of hemorrhoids.
The real problem here is being able to throw your body onto an uberboss until it dies, without needing ANY gear, skill or brain to kill that boss. Of course Marco said there will be timers and events where you can't recover corpse etc but from what I understand, "events" or what marco had planned are completely new, so is it not planned to adjust ubers like CoV with some mechanic to prevent throwing your body at spire until it dies? I understand CoV is now one of the easier ubers compared to the new ones, but it's overall not THAT easy and reducing its difficulty to completely 0 whether it's with auto recovery or Mp rejoins is a bad idea imo.
I thnik I wrote too long of a post for something that could be said in a few words. My point is:
Corpse recovery is GOOD, but something must be done to prevent cheese with corpse recovery AND MP rejoin, and such a prevention must be applied to ALL ubers whether it's some really hard or really easy one, because even the easiest uber has some base difficulty, however at the same time you must consider that there are ubers that are pretty much only possible if you die (if you're playing certain builds). For example I've heard multiple times that uldyssian's baal is doable as a melee sorc only if you attack him until you die then take your corpse and repeat same thing over and over again, and the real fight is against baal's hp regen and not himself. So if you make it impossible to kill uldy's baal by throwing body at him you must implement some alternative way to be able to do him as melee sorc for example.
I will provide an example: I have leveled a melee axe barb to 120 in sp, my gear is pretty bad although I have 1,5 million def (maxed bear stance + runes in all items ofc). I did some of the really easy ubers: king koth, tal rasha, creature of flame, death projector, infernal machine, iotss (which admittedly is fucking cancer for barb because of Malic) and then I decided, since we have auto corpse recovery why not head straight for the cathedral of vanity? Well, I entered it, didn't care about anything at all, didn't use my brain, just tried to do as much damage to the spire before I die. I died, took corpse back and repeated same thing for 5 times, then spire died and I killed everything else. I concluded that this uber is not tricky or easy or whatever, but literally trivial, 0 difficulty, you just need a bit of time to do it, no need for brain or anything, which is sad. In previous patches, if I was not able to do this uber I'd try a different approach or come back when I'm a bit more geared, and when I, especially when I was a new player, finished the uber, I'd feel very satisfied. Now I don't. Because I cheesed it.
With that being said, does my post actually have any significance, does what I said actually matter, is auto corpse recovery a problem? no. Why? Because like someone above me said, when Marco took over, this game became more MP oriented, and due to that (and also because we have a stable and "official" server) most of the players now play MP, and in MP they can of course rejoin games like they always could, so the only thing corpse recovery does is make the MP corpse recovery less time consuming and removes the disadvantage SP players had compared to MP players.
So in short, corpse recovery:
>MP corpse recover (rejoin) is now less time consuming, SP players are no longer at a disadvantage.
>removes a lot of frustration from the game
>is overall a very good thing
People who complain about corpse recovery are complaining about a part of the problem and not about the root of the problem. If you remove corpse recovery, you make the game more balanced for SP players (because the first ubers are no longer trivial) but you also put them at a disadvantage which is very unfair, so it would be silly to remove it, besides you would just make MP players more frustrated.
If you wish to get rid of corpse recovery you must also get rid of being able to rejoin games. However, recovering corpse was really hemorrhoids, so I tihnk auto corpse recovery should stay as is. Removing TPs is not a solution at all and the only thing it will do is add a huge amount of hemorrhoids.
The real problem here is being able to throw your body onto an uberboss until it dies, without needing ANY gear, skill or brain to kill that boss. Of course Marco said there will be timers and events where you can't recover corpse etc but from what I understand, "events" or what marco had planned are completely new, so is it not planned to adjust ubers like CoV with some mechanic to prevent throwing your body at spire until it dies? I understand CoV is now one of the easier ubers compared to the new ones, but it's overall not THAT easy and reducing its difficulty to completely 0 whether it's with auto recovery or Mp rejoins is a bad idea imo.
I thnik I wrote too long of a post for something that could be said in a few words. My point is:
Corpse recovery is GOOD, but something must be done to prevent cheese with corpse recovery AND MP rejoin, and such a prevention must be applied to ALL ubers whether it's some really hard or really easy one, because even the easiest uber has some base difficulty, however at the same time you must consider that there are ubers that are pretty much only possible if you die (if you're playing certain builds). For example I've heard multiple times that uldyssian's baal is doable as a melee sorc only if you attack him until you die then take your corpse and repeat same thing over and over again, and the real fight is against baal's hp regen and not himself. So if you make it impossible to kill uldy's baal by throwing body at him you must implement some alternative way to be able to do him as melee sorc for example.
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You threw yourself at COV until it worked even before auto corpse recovery. In fact, you threw yourself against every uber until it worked BEFORE auto corpse recovery. Every uber that actually requires skill and mechanics takes a dump on zerg rush. Only difference is now you can walk through a portal fully geared instead of walking through, picking up your body, and then being fully geared. People who aren't that good at this game still feel frustration I assure you.
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It might be bit off, but still connected to auto corpse revocery.
I think there is a significant difference between now and then regarding those who used Sacred Armor to recover their corpses while doing harder Ubers.
Now without need to do so, paladin can max demiurge, max euphoria for piercing, perhaps doesn't even need tainted blood since you can die as many times you can and to save skill points and what our aim is to inflict the highest damage at cost of our defence. Of course some Ubers might still require good defence but it's not that hard to fin respec potions.
I'm not saying im going to use this method to get charms that normally I wouldnt even try, it just striked me today while I was going to respec. I kinda understand why modmakers decided to nerf some charms ( removing some attributes bonuses).
Besides I like to farm more rather than doing Ubers/ trophies runs so I find corpse recovery as a good thing.
I think there is a significant difference between now and then regarding those who used Sacred Armor to recover their corpses while doing harder Ubers.
Now without need to do so, paladin can max demiurge, max euphoria for piercing, perhaps doesn't even need tainted blood since you can die as many times you can and to save skill points and what our aim is to inflict the highest damage at cost of our defence. Of course some Ubers might still require good defence but it's not that hard to fin respec potions.
I'm not saying im going to use this method to get charms that normally I wouldnt even try, it just striked me today while I was going to respec. I kinda understand why modmakers decided to nerf some charms ( removing some attributes bonuses).
Besides I like to farm more rather than doing Ubers/ trophies runs so I find corpse recovery as a good thing.
Edited by thunderman 6 years.
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I don't think nerfing the attribute bonuses had anything to do with SA cheesing
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All the nonsense with demiurge and SA are just abuse and cheese and you should feel bad if you use it and then complain about things being too easy. Not pointing any fingers here just to be clear lol
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At the moment I'm not able to do one dunc run with my caster, because stormcall was nerfed and I lack dmg and my overall stats are much lower. Probably holy melee can do it with average gear. Shall i go against my playstyle and choose to followe others and play holy melee or shall i stick to my stormcall paladin who was quite powerful last patch and try do dunc without cheese and die 100 times while doing so. This is kind of question that doesn't need answer I'm afraid... I'm taking things slowly in hope somebody will trade essential items for my build, but sadly amount of players and trading is much slower compared to previous patch.