Σ 1.6 Bugs&Feedback

ParticuLarry wrote:..

It isnt really taking away the incentive to play together. You still need other players to scale xp.
And no that's your idea not mine. It wouldn't make any sense to scale mob health in p1 up to p5 or p8 levels at all. I thought this was self explanatory. Only the loot portion makes sense from a build balancing standpoint.

There is still plenty of reasons to group with this change. And having 1 less person in a k3kxp-01 game farming dunc/fauzt/maps for loot with no player interaction is hardly detrimental to grouping in the game.

Relic (Pyroclastic Flow)

skill doesn't work (you cast it and nothing happens) and has a 30s cooldown.

Controlledanger wrote:
ParticuLarry wrote:..

It isnt really taking away the incentive to play together. You still need other players to scale xp.
And no that's your idea not mine. It wouldn't make any sense to scale mob health in p1 up to p5 or p8 levels at all. I thought this was self explanatory. Only the loot portion makes sense from a build balancing standpoint.

There is still plenty of reasons to group with this change. And having 1 less person in a k3kxp-01 game farming dunc/fauzt/maps for loot with no player interaction is hardly detrimental to grouping in the game.

It seems I didn't make myself clear enough. So please allow me to tell you in a more direct approach:

The reason I expanded your idea was because it is highly flawed, as both Swineflu and I have already realized due to 2 reasons.
1) It doesn't help the party play. In contrast, it even makes playing in a party less meaningful. This goes against the whole direction this mod is going for. You claiming it won't affect party play is only you not wanting to realize there's more than experience gain to get from party play. And funnily enough, this idea that there's nothing to gain from party play aside from experience is the whole issue why people tend to farm solo (which is fortunately not everyone). But that's also what the mod makers seemingly want to act against, seeing how they do everything in their power to make single player less attractive, as SwineFlue explained, in hopes to get people to play on the server. In fact, empowering the idea that aside from experience there is nothing to gain from party play encourages even more people to play solo, which increases the amount of slots required on the servers, which in turn increases the amount of servers needed in areas where many players access the game, which ultimately results in the fix costs of those servers being higher than they necessarily need to be. So from both an economic and from a gaming experience standpoint, this idea is, excuse my wording, bad.
2) As I said before, your proposal is not fixing the issue. The reason why some builds feel less rewarding is because they ARE less rewarding. Equalizing drop rates does nothing to make up for it since some builds will still have a harder time at farming. This whole idea is merely a wannabe solution that wouldn't fix anything. The gap is still there.

In addition to that I feel like I need to point out that at no occasion did I ever say not scaling health is your idea. I'm not sure where you got that idea from. But trying to expand on a bad idea and thinking of possibilities to actually make it work as I did was actually something that should be in your favor. You understanding how flawed this idea of mine is (thanks to me explaining the negative results of that implementation) should already show you that the original idea is even more flawed if it requires further developing in order to not break the gaming experience for those who actually want to feel a multiplayer experience, instead of a singleplayer experience with a delay.

ParticuLarry wrote:..

Don't need to elaborate on the health scaling, as i said that I figured that was pretty self explanatory since it makes no sense.

It's a simple concept that would make p1 builds much more on par with p8 ones, you are kinda straying off point.

It don't claim it wouldnt effect party play at all, but im pretty confident it would be more minuscule than your making it out to be. I feel it benefits of builds feeling more rewarding to play gives more dynamic to the diversity of what you have to choose from that is still comparably efficient in these cases outweighs the negatives effects that your projecting which are more severe then they would be.

The benefits would out way the negatives imo.

I knew posting something of this nature would upset some people and I'm ok with that. I felt it was something that should be said whether its a possible change or not.

I gave you a numbers so you can do the math and prove us wrong, but alas you have declined to so, I guess it's my turn now.

Fauztinville:
NoDrop = 1197
ProbSum = 1218 (NDgoldX* = 495)
TotalProb = 1197 + 1218 = 2415

Effective chance to drop anything:
p1: 1 - (1197 + 495) / (1197 + 1218) = ~30%
p3: 1 - (396 + 495) / (396 + 1218) = ~45%
p5: 1 - (168 + 495) / (168 + 1218) = ~52%
p7: 1 - (78 + 495) / (78 + 1218) = ~56%

Corrupted Abbey:
NoDrop = 1200
ProbSum = 1113 (NDgoldX* = 431)
TotalProb = 1200 + 1113 = 2313

Effective chance to drop anything:
p1: 1 - (1200 + 431) / (1200 + 1113) = ~29%
p3: 1 - (409 + 431) / (409 + 1113) = ~45%
p5: 1 - (180 + 431) / (180 + 1113) = ~53%
p7: 1 - (86 + 431) / (86 + 1113) = ~57%

Lab T10:
NoDrop = 902
ProbSum = 6098 (NDgoldX* = 3163)
TotalProb = 902 + 6098 = 7000

Effective chance to drop anything:
p1: 1 - (902 + 3163) / (902 + 6098) = ~42%
p3: 1 - (102 + 3163) / (102 + 6098) = ~47%
p5: 1 - (13 + 3163) / (13 + 6098) = ~48%
p7: 1 - (1 + 3163) / (1 + 6098) = ~48%

Where NDgoldX* is a substitute for NoDrop which is not affected by players count.
Where p1/p3/p5/p7 is an equivalent for players command from sp, e.g. for a multiplayer game p3 is the same as having 2 players within the same area in party or having 3 players where each one is farming their own area.

I can clearly see a benefit while playing in party if you want to be efficient with your farm, it's ~15% better chance and that's a substantial bonus, can't argue with that. Now let's take a look at the rest of results, it's ~8% better chance from p3 to p5 and only ~4% better chance from p5 to p7, where is that significant difference you were talking about? Maybe you want to talk about the Dimensional Labyrinth, there is barely any advantage if you're not farming it solo, these numbers are speak for themselves.

From now on it would be better if you use the actual statistical data if you want to resolve this dispute, it doesn't have to be my calculations, you can bring your own.

SwineFlu wrote:I gave you a numbers so you can do the math and prove us wrong, but alas you have declined to so, I guess it's my turn now.
Fauztinville:
NoDrop = 1197
ProbSum = 1218 (NDgoldX* = 495)
TotalProb = 1197 + 1218 = 2415

Effective chance to drop anything:
p1: 1 - (1197 + 495) / (1197 + 1218) = ~30%
p3: 1 - (396 + 495) / (396 + 1218) = ~45%
p5: 1 - (168 + 495) / (168 + 1218) = ~52%
p7: 1 - (78 + 495) / (78 + 1218) = ~56%
Corrupted Abbey:
NoDrop = 1200
ProbSum = 1113 (NDgoldX* = 431)
TotalProb = 1200 + 1113 = 2313

Effective chance to drop anything:
p1: 1 - (1200 + 431) / (1200 + 1113) = ~29%
p3: 1 - (409 + 431) / (409 + 1113) = ~45%
p5: 1 - (180 + 431) / (180 + 1113) = ~53%
p7: 1 - (86 + 431) / (86 + 1113) = ~57%
Lab T10:
NoDrop = 902
ProbSum = 6098 (NDgoldX* = 3163)
TotalProb = 902 + 6098 = 7000

Effective chance to drop anything:
p1: 1 - (902 + 3163) / (902 + 6098) = ~42%
p3: 1 - (102 + 3163) / (102 + 6098) = ~47%
p5: 1 - (13 + 3163) / (13 + 6098) = ~48%
p7: 1 - (1 + 3163) / (1 + 6098) = ~48%
Where NDgoldX* is a substitute for NoDrop which is not affected by players count.
Where p1/p3/p5/p7 is an equivalent for players command from sp, e.g. for a multiplayer game p3 is the same as having 2 players within the same area in party or having 3 players where each one is farming their own area.

I can clearly see a benefit while playing in party if you want to be efficient with your farm, it's ~15% better chance and that's a substantial bonus, can't argue with that. Now let's take a look at the rest of results, it's ~8% better chance from p3 to p5 and only ~4% better chance from p5 to p7, where is that significant difference you were talking about? Maybe you want to talk about the Dimensional Labyrinth, there is barely any advantage if you're not farming it solo, these numbers are speak for themselves.

From now on it would be better if you use the actual statistical data if you want to resolve this dispute, it doesn't have to be my calculations, you can bring your own.

You basically just proved the point I made yourself. There doesn't need to be an explanation the numbers right there.

The discussion was from p1 to p7 (or any increase from p1 for that mater) not p5-p7 ect. The efficiency increase in jumps from p3-p5-p7 increases are really just marginally dependent on gear. If you are playing a p7 capable build, it will be doing p7 eventually which clearly you have shown is much more better loot over p1 and this again is already common knowledge between the people this would effect "negatively", but yes any increase is obviously going to diminish from its previous value.

29% vs 57% in dunc, that literally sums it up right there.

Math will only take you so far. The state of builds in the game is a massive variable that you won't see in the TC's.

No numbers, no elaboration, evasive answers and just a vague baseless statements where you're trying to put your personal experience as an objective truth. Well, that was quite an intricate way to say that you want this mod to be tailored accordingly to your needs and preferences. If you can't adapt to the current meta and don't want to farm in a most efficient way then maybe it's your fault and you should not blame game mechanics and other players when they refuse to follow your artificial rules?

Cone of cold is unplayable with relics. A total of 3 relics causes the following to happen against large packs of monsters.

Note: It even drops fps with a single relic but it's minor.

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Hail of stones has pitiful damage scaling and doesn't multihit. At the moment it's one of the lowest damage physical spells and it doesn't multihit so the relic for extra stones per throw really doesn't do much for it.

Any1 know why im getting this error in Hardcore mode act 5 ? It freeze then close my game...

Three bits on melee necro after first hc run:
- Deathlord buff lacks some duration scaling.
Since no any timers in buff panel, wish it will expand to like 20 minutes endgame at least.
- Merc became active target while Bane or BtS is active on panel.
That's annoying if merc is A2/A5 (melee) cause it overrides target frequently and forces to swap back to some useless skill to avoid this bug. If it's easy to make merc unselectable with these skills - it will be significial improvement.
- Unreachable with melee range Erinyses sometimes.