Σ 1.6 Bugs&Feedback

[Controlledanger]

No numbers, no elaboration, evasive answers and just a vague baseless statements where you're trying to put your personal experience as an objective truth. Well, that was quite an intricate way to say that you want this mod to be tailored accordingly to your needs and preferences. If you can't adapt to the current meta and don't want to farm in a most efficient way then maybe it's your fault and you should not blame game mechanics and other players when they refuse to follow your artificial rules?

Don't bring toxicity to this thread please, that's not what I was aiming for when posting this.

If you have can't understand what I said then I can't help you but it very simple.


"no numbers" I gave numbers, you just went off topic in obvious comparisons I never mentioned and thought this somehow reflected what i originally wrote. News flash, it doesn't.

"evasive answer" That's basically your response above in a nutshell. Giving nothing to the topic and ranting on about multiple things that were never said.

"no elaborations" The concept was simplistic enough that I elaborated on it as much as needed. Let me reiterate... again (ill be as concise as possible). Equalize no drop (or close the gap between p1-p7 to instead be less impactful) to allow a wider variety of builds to farm more efficiency regardless of player count. I know it's hard not to try and flaunt numbers you think I or someone else may not already know and go off topic but trust me it doesn't accomplish anything and honestly just makes you look confused about the topic.

Like i said originally, I knew posting this would get some people a little annoyed and that's fine. Not all changes have to please everyone, just hopefully the majority. Vent please but stay on topic and don't become toxic it doesn't accomplish anything.

[Wasp]

Possibly make drops static to a specific player count. I actually feel p1 drop rate is fine and would work as a static global drop rate for any games player count. Others might disagree with this and maybe the majority would want it to be slightly higher but either way the point stands that it's not the drop rate specifically, it's the difference in efficiency from p1 to p8 farming. In my eyes the easier balancing option to mitigate this would be making drop rates static regardless of player count. Some builds would still need nerfs because of the nature of pushing lab but I think this would be a healthy change.

I will reformulate with two points your argument, as I understood it.
Point 1 : you want static strop rate regardless of player count.
I understand that you want that because you say some builds are better at P8 farming than some are at P1 farming, hence, they are somewhat over powered farming-wise compared to other. So, making a static drop rate brings back everybody on the same level.

Point 2 : you still want to nerf some builds.
I assume the aforementioned godly P8 builds.

First, As said prior, drop rate or more exactly, 'no drop', isn't the biggest thing that will level out builds. You see, clear speed is MUCH more important, and i thing you are overestimating the 'no drop' aspect of the PX part of the equation.
Secondly, again, as said prior, a level drop rate across PX is totally in opposition with how the game works. Monsters are more tough when more people joins, and they drop more. More challenge, more loot. Basic stuff. It incentivize people to play with others, if you remove that you are killing one of the crucial aspect of multiplayer.

You then said : "Equalize no drop (or close the gap between p1-p7 to instead be less impactful) to allow a wider variety of builds to farm more efficiency regardless of player count. " . The thing is, if you make drop rate static you are not making farming MORE efficient for all, but LESS... It will even more penalize 'lesser' builds that plays with others.
Which brings me to the second point. You still want to nerf some builds. And I think that's the only good point that you made. Some builds ARE shit, bad boss killer , bad farmer, less godly, etc. I think the solution to point 1 is solving build balance's discrepancy.

Which brings me back to ParticuLarry's last point. The real problem is not drop rates, it's build imbalance. And funny enough you agree too, since you've made that point yourself.

TLDR (imho) : It will kill the interest of playing together (XP isn't everything). Your idea sounds like a glorified Single Player with shit drops and the same build discrepancy

[Controlledanger]

Maybe I should have made it clear, and it's my fault if i wasn't on this. There are builds that kill speed doesn’t change enough in p8 vs p1 enough to come close to outweighing the gain in drops. Clear speed is a given and it goes hand and hand with nodrop. The builds I’m talking about are not slow clearing p8. They are doing it in times that are almost identical to p1 because of overkill damage (wether it be hitting a large pack of mobs for massive damage, or hitting entire screen for high damage). The clear speed is a baseline for a build to even enter this conversation and of course it goes without saying kill speed is the biggest factor, but that kill speed changes with mob health which then influences the efficiency of a build in p1 vs p7 drastically.

Some builds will need nerfs every ladder that’s just the nature of introducing new content and players figuring out what works best. Sometimes the margins between one build and the next best one under it are too great.

It’s hard to overestimate when the numbers are there. If a build can clear a p1 dunc in 3 min it would take a p7 one nearly 6 min to equate to the same drops per hour.

And yes the original post I made i said it would be easier to equalize drops to fix the overkill builds being more efficient, but balancing these builds every patch is also an option. It would be the golden fix but something I highly doubt will ever happen. I just felt it was one that takes a lot more work and something that has fallen short so I presented this idea.

As a side note, it's much easier to balance a skill from being able to screen wide clear in p1 as this is just a radius issue and/or movespeed (move speed seems to be moving in the right direction overall since sigma released), vs's balancing damage with how many layers and bugs get introduced.

[Controlledanger]

Never knew if this was intentional or not.

Trebuchet has less avg dmg and slower speed but it's at the bottom of the list of necro xbows. Maybe it was originally intended to have more avg dmg?

[Ekital]

Never knew if this was intentional or not.

Trebuchet has less avg dmg and slower speed but it's at the bottom of the list of necro xbows. Maybe it was originally intended to have more avg dmg?

Pretty sure the list is ordered based on Quality level not the stats.

[Ekital]

Cute little bug:

Even with 0 points in incarnation solar flare enables the incarnation buff (20% fire/cold/phys sd ,+105 flat atk rating and 3% Life leech).

[Scalewinged]

Never knew if this was intentional or not.

Trebuchet has less avg dmg and slower speed but it's at the bottom of the list of necro xbows. Maybe it was originally intended to have more avg dmg?

It was vefore dmg rework in 2017... just look at this precious 1 more max damage!

[Impulse_]

Trebuchet has less avg dmg and slower speed but it's at the bottom of the list of necro xbows. Maybe it was originally intended to have more avg dmg?

Same thing with Blade Talons/Scissors Katar in list.

[SwineFlu]

...

Step down from your high horse, you behaving like a stubborn egocentric narcissist who have no respect to anyone else's opinion whatsoever and somehow it's me who is toxic in there.

It's a simple idea indeed, to have a static nodrop for any players count that would eventually lead to a build diversity in terms of farm efficiency. I don't get it, why are you so defensive and refuse to discuss any flaws and shortcomings of this idea, we could've had a civil conversation, but for any counterargument you're bringing "the fact that it should be done that way because of obvious reasons". I see how it is, not only you intentionally ignoring some parts of the conversation like math and statistics because it's so obvious for you, but also you taking out of the context anything that might prove your "righteous" point, that is I'm only asking you to answer the following questions:

1) Why are you so sure that your idea is that great and healthy for the game to begin with?
2) Why do you want to remove one of a few incentives to play together in a multiplayer game?
3) Why do you think that every build should be equally good in terms of farming efficiency?
4) Why you ignoring the Dimensional Labyrinth, this area was specifically designed as an endgame farming zone, wasn't it?
5) Why you omitting the fact that there is barely any difference in nodrop between p1 and p7 for the Dimensional Labyrinth?
6) What makes you think that everyone is have to play this game the same way as you do and be obsessed with efficient farming?
7) Are you a part of p1 lives matter movement? Do you want to bring a socialism in the world of Sanctuary?

[Controlledanger]

...

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I read the first sentence and can't read anymore it's too toxic. Take it to DM or another thread please.